Ace Office Machines = Amazon appreciation experience [rant!]

[usagora]

I have a DVD project I'm working on, and wanted a DVD label applicator. So I purchase this one on Amazon:

Merax B00NY4YA2I EZ Label: CD/DVD Label Applicator (40mm Hole, CD/DVD Applicator)

CD label application perfect every time. EZ LABEL applicator 100% Compatible with all Stomp compatible CD and DVD labels 40mm Hole CD / DVD Applicator Fits most regular CD / DVD Size, 40mm Center Hole The CD/DVD Label Applicator 40mm applicator cd dvd ez hole label (applicator only) in Plastic co...

www.amazon.com

Well, I didn't like it at all. The part the DVD rests on is crooked and also sits too close to the part the label rests on (labels tend to curl up). So I return it to Amazon literally the same day for a refund.

So through Googling, I find a much better looking one by Avery (AVE05699) - and it's in stock at Ace Office Machines. Here is their listing:

Avery® CD/DVD Label Applicator, Black AVE05699

Buy ultimate Avery® CD/DVD Label Applicator, Black AVE05699 from wide range of Avery at AceOfficeMachines.com

www.aceofficemachines.com

Well, I get my order in the mail and open it to discover the exact same piece of crap that I ordered from Amazon - and also is bent! So I promptly email Ace Office Machines to explain that I had received a different product than advertised. They reply back that it is the correct product and the other one (apparently called the "CD Stomper") has been discontinued - that this is the new version. No apology for their incorrect pictures and description on their website and no offer of a resolution. So I reply back that I'd like to return it since I didn't receive the product advertised. They reply back that they can replace it if needed. I replied again to say, no thanks - I'd like a full refund (including shipping costs) and a prepaid return label. Well, all of a sudden their same-day replies disappeared and I never heard back from them - that was a week ago now. I sent multiple followup emails with no reply - the latest was last Friday.

Last Wednesday I had called them as well and the customer service rep told me he would put in a request for my RMA and I would hear back by email within 48 hours max. Never heard back. So I called and spoke to the same guy today. No apology. He now tells me to send a "brief text" to another number to take care of it. I ask him if we could simply take care of this by phone today, like every other company that I know of can. He then says call back after 2pm when the Accounts Payable department gets in.

So I call back at 2pm and another man answers and tells me the accounts payable person is only in once a week so he's not sure why they told me that. I explain the whole situation to him and he says in an indignant tone "Well you have to return the product before you can get a refund, sir." I told him that's all I've been trying to do! He then claims the last email they got from me was on Friday and acts like I'm being unreasonable to have expected an answer due to it being the weekend. I told him, no, I had sent two other unanswered emails 6-7 days ago. He replies, "Are you disputing what I just said, sir?!" I tell him, yes, I have all my emails right here in front of me. He then states again adamantly that the last email they received from me was sent Friday. At this point, I can see it was turning into a pi$$ing contest, so I just said, "Sir, please just send me a return label so I can return the product to you for a refund." "Fabulous!" he says sarcastically, "Have a wonderful day," at which point we both hang up. What an a$$! I then see a reply from them in my email inbox that states an RMA will be sent within 24 hours. I'll believe it when I see it. I did reply back with a screenshot to prove I had sent them earlier emails they claim I didn't.

If I don't receive the RMA, I guess I'll just have to dispute the credit card charge. I don't think I want to call them back again after that rude treatment. This is absolutely shocking to me, as someone who is also in customer service as part of their job. I can understand if I was being unreasonable or was in the wrong, but I was literally sent a different product than I ordered and received not a single "sorry about that" or any sort of helpfulness whatsoever. Really makes you appreciate companies such as Amazon.

In the middle of all this drama, I found the true Avery CD Stomper on eBay and ordered it. Here is a picture of what Ace sent me (left) and what I should have received (right). Second picture shows flimsy nature of the received product.

 

[0128672]

That's an appallingly bad customer service experience. I think disputing the charge is the way to go. Hope it all works in your favor.

 

[usagora]

That's an appallingly bad customer service experience. I think disputing the charge is the way to go. Hope it all works in your favor.

Thanks. I will give them through tomorrow to make good on their word. After that I'll dispute the charge. I've given them plenty of time to make this right.

 

[velocityg4]

That's too bad. File a dispute with your credit card and document everything.

The onus is on them to either refund or send you the correct item. My understanding of the law is also you have no legal obligation to return the wrong item. It is essentially a gift. But you may send it back if you feel like it. (Assuming this is in the US)

What To Do if You’re Billed for Things You Never Got, or You Get Unordered Products

Billed for products you never ordered, or for products you ordered but never got? Federal laws protect you. Here's what to do.

www.consumer.ftc.gov

"By law, companies can’t send unordered merchandise to you, then demand payment. That means you never have to pay for things you get but didn’t order. You also don’t have to return unordered merchandise. You’re legally entitled to keep it as a free gift.


Sellers can send you merchandise that is clearly marked as a gift, free sample, or the like. And, charitable organizations can send you merchandise and ask for a contribution. You may keep such merchandise as a free gift." - Excerpt

Edit: I'd also file a complaint with the FTC. As purposefully advertising one item and sending another is bait and switch. If they keep bothering you. Let them know you've filed a complaint with the FTC.

Report Fraud

Protect your community by reporting fraud, scams, and bad business practices

reportfraud.ftc.gov

 

[usagora]

That's too bad. File a dispute with your credit card and document everything.

The onus is on them to either refund or send you the correct item. My understanding of the law is also you have no legal obligation to return the wrong item. It is essentially a gift. But you may send it back if you feel like it. (Assuming this is in the US)

What To Do if You’re Billed for Things You Never Got, or You Get Unordered Products

Billed for products you never ordered, or for products you ordered but never got? Federal laws protect you. Here's what to do.

www.consumer.ftc.gov

"By law, companies can’t send unordered merchandise to you, then demand payment. That means you never have to pay for things you get but didn’t order. You also don’t have to return unordered merchandise. You’re legally entitled to keep it as a free gift.


Sellers can send you merchandise that is clearly marked as a gift, free sample, or the like. And, charitable organizations can send you merchandise and ask for a contribution. You may keep such merchandise as a free gift." - Excerpt

Well, I don't mind returning it to them, even if there's no legal obligation to. I don't want it, and if returning it gets them to refund my card without having to go through a charge dispute, then I'm fine with that since it's on their dime. I have indeed documented everything, including screenshots of the listing on their site, so they can't update it and then claim that's what it showed all along.

 

[velocityg4]

Well, I don't mind returning it to them, even if there's no legal obligation to. I don't want it, and if returning it gets them to refund my card without having to go through a charge dispute, then I'm fine with that since it's on their dime. I have indeed documented everything, including screenshots of the listing on their site, so they can't update it and then claim that's what it showed all along.

I do agree. To give a company the benefit of the doubt.

It just seems to me you've done that. You've given them way more leeway than necessary and they're still screwing with you. That's just when I'd switch up and exercise my rights.

I don't know about your credit card company. The last time I had to call mine several years ago. It took less than ten minutes on the phone to dispute a charge. When someone stole my number.

 

[usagora]

I do agree. To give a company the benefit of the doubt.

It just seems to me you've done that. You've given them way more leeway than necessary and they're still screwing with you. That's just when I'd switch up and exercise my rights.

I agree, but since they have now actually put in writing that an RMA will be sent within 24 hours, I want to give them the 24 hours. That should also help my chargeback case if Ace disputes it.

 

[0128672]

And of course only send it back via a shipper you trust and get a tracking #. You'll want that proof of signature.

Hope you'll let us know the eventual outcome.

 

[usagora]

And of course only send it back via a shipper you trust and get a tracking #. You'll want that proof of signature.

Hope you'll let us know the eventual outcome.

Well since they're paying for return shipping, I'll have to go with whom they use (probably USPS). I'll be sure to follow up here with what happens. I hate to sound cliche, but it's true: it's not about the money (less than $20); it's about the principle.

 

[usagora]

Well, I received an RMA # and return address from them by email, but they say I'm responsible for shipping.

No dice.

I have now opened a dispute for the charge with my credit card company.

What an absolutely awful company!

EDIT: I guess I should have looked at their Google reviews first. 20 reviews - all 1 star.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Leaving aside the experience with that company... back when I worked with DVDs a long, long time ago, I found labels to be a pain. I eventually ended up with printable DVDs and a disc publisher. Never looked back. You can print on the DVDs with any ink jet printer. While a publisher allows you to load a bunch of DVDs, automatically burn them and then print labels. Highly recommended.

 

[usagora]

Last night I replied to their RMA email (the one that stated I was responsible for return shipping costs) with the following:

I am not paying to return something I did not order. Since your company has refused to do the right thing and issue a prepaid return label for the incorrect item you sent me, you leave me with no choice but to dispute the charge with my credit card company, which dispute has now been initiated.

A few hours ago, they sent me this defiant reply:

No credit will be issued without a return. The dispute will be answered with such. A dispute is not won in your favor automatically.

So I replied with the following:

You tell me how you think it's fair to ask me to pay shipping to return something I never ordered from you. You advertised one product but sent another. That's on you, not me. You can call it an "updated" version of the product if you like, but the fact remains it's not the product I ordered and is clearly inferior in design. If you want me to return the incorrect product you sent me, send me a prepaid shipping label like I requested. I have pictures of the received product, screenshots of your website showing a different product, and all the email communication that will be sent as supporting evidence for the dispute case. You guys have 100% 1-star reviews on Google, and now I see why. You fail to take responsibility for your mistakes. Wish I had looked at those reviews before I attempted to do business with you.

These people are really something else! Unless Chase has lost their ever-loving mind, I fail to see how they could possibly side with this company.

 

[0128672]

Good documentation is what you need; that, and calm, factual communication with Chase. If it was me, I'd stop communicating with Ace completely.

 

[usagora]

Good documentation is what you need; that, and calm, factual communication with Chase. If it was me, I'd stop communicating with Ace completely.

Oh, sure. I've had to deal with this on the other end as part of my job (customers disputing charges) in the past, so I know how to adjust my tone based on context. Trust me, I'm not going to be telling Chase what rat b*stards these people are or anything like that 😂

 

[usagora]

Also looked them up on BBB 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ Lesson learned: always do at least cursory research on a company you've never purchased from before, no matter how legitimate their website appears and even if it's a minor purchase. Yikes.

https://www.bbb.org/us/nj/northvale/profile/office-equipment/ace-depot-llc-0221-90092235

 

[usagora]

I'm starting to get nervous here, as Chase seems incompetent. THREE times I've had to call them now, and each time the rep I'm speaking to tells me something different.

9/27 - First rep simply told me I was all set (after telling her the specific transaction and reason for dispute) and to wait on a packet in the mail to complete and return by mail or fax. I asked if there was any sort of case number or anything for the dispute, and she said I will receive an email with all the details and could also click on the transaction on the website to see those details.

9/28 After 24 hours, no email from Chase and nothing on the website, so I call back to make sure they actually opened the dispute case. The rep starts asks me again the reason for the dispute (I already told them!) and then starts grilling me about the specific description of the advertised item vs. the item I received. I told her I thought I would be putting all that in writing (and pictures) once I received the dispute packet in the mail - why is she asking me this over the phone? She says I can do that if I don't want to complete the dispute over the phone (??? - first rep never mentioned an option to complete over the phone). I told her I'd rather collect my thoughts in writing instead of being put on the spot over the phone (especially because of the language barrier - her English was very stilted). She says I can also complete the forms online, but there's no guarantee that they will receive it if I do it that way (🤦‍♂️), so be sure to send a hard copy too.

9/29 (today) I get a text from Chase saying they need more info from me regarding the dispute. I call (I get disconnected twice after waiting on hold for 5 minutes) and finally get connected with another rep, who AGAIN asks me "so, why are we disputing this charge?" (🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️). I informed him that I've already explained this twice, but will explain it again. He then says, "I'm not sure why the other reps didn't tell you this, but we give the merchant 14 days from the date you received the item to resolve the issue" (that gives them through October 4). He mentions again the online form and dispute tracking, so I explain to him how I can't seem to find those anywhere online, and he (helpfully) guides me to those (both are buried multiple layers into the website UI).

So I'm not feeling too optimistic here, but I hope justice prevails in the end.

 

[KaliYoni]

THREE times I've had to call them now, and each time the rep I'm speaking to tells me something different.

Two quick thoughts based on professional and personal experience that might be helpful:

• The best way to dispute a charge is to do it via USPS. Why? Because the laws covering credit cards were written a long time ago. Most of your rights in a dispute are triggered when your card issuer receives written notice of the dispute. Look on the back of a statement for details on filing a dispute.
• The seller and possibly the credit card issuer will interpret "unordered" differently than in this thread. The consumer-focused FTC site, unfortunately, is not clear if it defines unordered as "an order was never placed by the recipient with the seller" or as "a product that does not exactly match the seller's description". I bet the seller will tell the card issuer it fulfilled an order you made but sent a wrong item by mistake.

 

[usagora]

The best way to dispute a charge is to do it via USPS.

That's what I intend to do - just waiting on the forms.

The seller and possibly the credit card issuer will interpret "unordered" differently than in this thread. The consumer-focused FTC site, unfortunately, is not clear if it defines unordered as "an order was never placed by the recipient with the seller" or as "a product that does not exactly match the seller's description". I bet the seller will tell the card issuer it fulfilled an order you made but sent a wrong item by mistake.

Correct, it's technically "item not as described", but in either case, the seller is refusing to make this right by refunding my money without requiring me to pay to return the incorrect item they sent me.

 

[KaliYoni]

That's what I intend to do - just waiting on the forms.

If you want to get started filing your dispute right away, there isn't any need to use a form. A letter simply containing the information required by the federal regulations, assuming you are located in the US, is enough to assure your rights. Credit card statements always list the mailing address and the information needed for a letter, often on a back page.

Good luck, I hope you get your money back quickly!

 

[usagora]

If you want to get started filing your dispute right away, there isn't any need to use a form.

Moot point now - received the form just a couple hours ago and am working on it now - will send it in by mail, fax, AND online just to be sure they get it. Only info I was missing was the name of the people I spoke with at Ace, so thankfully I was able to call back and get the first and last name of the guy I had spoken with a few times, but unfortunately he wasn't sure who the other guy was I spoke to once (the guy who was an a$$ to me), and I doubt he'd give me his name even if I could speak to him directly. None of their emails were signed with a person's name either.

 

[usagora]

Well, just sent my response and all supporting documentation (including all emails) to Chase online, by fax, and by mail (just to be sure). Now all I can do is wait and hope whoever reviews the case reads it carefully and has their head screwed on straight 😬 Will let you know the outcome!

 

[rainafterthesun]

Nothing to add except the best way to deal with people over the phone and get a better experience then if you weren’t to do this is:

to get the name of the person you’re speaking with… they usually intro themselves. You can be creative.. oh Cathy? Do you spell it with a Y or IE like my best friend?

then throughout the call as they’re saying something to you, repeat back what they say with their name, that’s correct right?

1. They’re on a recorded line 90% of the time
2. This will help you show them you’re actively listening so they need to give you the right answer. Usually when I do this, they will double check with their supervisor or colleague.

The importance of getting their name and humanizing the interaction goes a long way.

 

[usagora]

Nothing to add except the best way to deal with people over the phone and get a better experience then if you weren’t to do this is:

to get the name of the person you’re speaking with… they usually intro themselves. You can be creative.. oh Cathy? Do you spell it with a Y or IE like my best friend?

then throughout the call as they’re saying something to you, repeat back what they say with their name, that’s correct right?

1. They’re on a recorded line 90% of the time
2. This will help you show them you’re actively listening so they need to give you the right answer. Usually when I do this, they will double check with their supervisor or colleague.

The importance of getting their name and humanizing the interaction goes a long way.

Well, if you saw the screenshots I posted of all their 1-star reviews and atrocious BBB record, it will be evident that no amount of pleasantness will get these people to do the right thing. Unfortunately, the main guy who answered the phone (not the guy who was an a$$ to me) was polite, but it was apparent he had no authority to do anything other than answer the phone and relay messages. They wanted you to text a number instead or email. This is simply a rotten company that needs to go out of business or be whipped into shape big time by new management or ownership.

 

[rainafterthesun]

Well, if you saw the screenshots I posted of all their 1-star reviews and atrocious BBB record, it will be evident that no amount of pleasantness will get these people to do the right thing. Unfortunately, the main guy who answered the phone (not the guy who was an a$$ to me) was polite, but it was apparent he had no authority to do anything other than answer the phone and relay messages. They wanted you to text a number instead or email. This is simply a rotten company that needs to go out of business or be whipped into shape big time by new management or ownership.

You’re not understanding my point and that’s kinda ok.

naturally you’re heated and the way you’re going about it is not something out of the norm for someone in your position.

I however, was not making a point to tell you to be super duper nice to them or that that would have gotten you the exact outcome that is optimal.

but my point was—besides honey does catch more bees (also interesting how you read my reply) was that by catching their name, and addressing them by their name throughout as well as getting confirmation, will get them to react slightly different eg example I gave has happened to me NUMEROUS times. I can’t tell you how many times someone on the phone would just tell me what they think I want to hear because they want to get me off (because they are judged by how many calls they can complete) and because they DO NOT think It’ll come back to bite them becuade they're thinking psssh they won’t remember my name.

and I got this by reading all of your replies (don’t you worry) and gleaned a few nuggets that made me reply the way I did.

if you can’t tell by how I’m composing my reply to you, I don’t take much flack but I also don’t take things personally. I’m also lazy. I didn’t quote before:

so thankfully I was able to call back and get the first and last name of the guy I had spoken with a few times, but unfortunately he wasn't sure who the other guy was I spoke to once (the guy who was an a$$ to me),

Never heard back.

After 24 hours, no email from Chase and nothing on the website, so I call back to make sure they actually opened the dispute case. The rep starts asks me again the reason for the dispute (I already told them!)

Ps, by knowing their names I can always tell the new rep I’m speaking with the day, time and rep I spoke with and to please review the recording. This gets more then just back to square 1 as you’ve done 3x with chase.

also, as stated, they usually come back to me after speaking with a colleague or supervisor when checking on something they confidently tell me and when I question it by asking them to confirm, after I parrot back to them what they stated…

 

[usagora]

@rainafterthesun

I think I understood your comment just fine - I was simply focusing on the part where you said it would result in a better experience with the company. In the case of Ace, I believe they are a clear exception to that rule, but most companies aren't. I take your point with regard to Chase, though.

I definitely need to be more consistent about documentation of phone calls. The mistake I usually make is assuming the best of a company (and thankfully that often is an accurate assumption and they resolve the problem) and feel no need to document (or at least not thoroughly), However, when it goes south--as in this case--by the time I realize it's going south, I then wish I had documented thoroughly from the get-go. Email and chat is nice because obviously that's a written record, but of course it can be easier for a company to ignore or not take seriously vs. a customer talking with you directly on the phone.