Acer and Asus to Provide Momentum to Thunderbolt Adoption

[Azathoth]

The problem is, will the connector be the same?

There's an adapter for that


I think this is an important annoucement, because it means that TB *might* have a non-zero chance. But apart from a HDD array and a to-be-released monitor there is still nothing on the market that you can connect to it - after 6months of public availability.

 

[Swift]

That in itself is a huge disadvantage. Even something as mainstream as firewire, there is just nothing out there in terms of numbers compared to USB

Look at the Thunderbolt hub put out by Griffin. It connects a passthrough for screens, two or three USBs, and firewire. USB 3 is (theoretically, at least) half the speed of Thunderbolt, and it's pretty well capped at that speed.

 

[tigres]

Thunderbolt is by far more flexible. You can connect anything to thunderbolt that you could connect to a PCIe port internally. There really are no disadvantages to thunderbolt besides lack of physical backwards compatibility with USB.

Price of entry.

 

[Lesser Evets]

Thunderbolt is the Porsche of interface at this time. Makes USB 3 look like mere Ford Mustang. There's only time before the interface takes over, unless USB moves quickly to 4 or 5 and smacks down the potential of TB. After only a few months, there are incredible expansion peripherals for TB which trounce what USB 3 offers.

 

[lilo777]

Look at the Thunderbolt hub put out by Griffin. It connects a passthrough for screens, two or three USBs, and firewire. USB 3 is (theoretically, at least) half the speed of Thunderbolt, and it's pretty well capped at that speed.

USB controller chip costs $2. Thunderbolt - $10. These days one gets four USB 3.0 ports on a laptop (not MB, obviously). When will you get four thunderbolt ports? Also, when will thunderbolt controller be integrated into Intel chipset? SO, obviously both TB and USB 3.0 will be used. Most likely all USB 2.0 ports will be replaced by USB 3.0 ports soon. TB will be used for more exotic purposes. Current crop of MBx is really crippled in this regard compared to PC laptops. On PC laptop one can use mDP to connect a monitor and then have two or more USB 3.0 ports to connect external HDD etc. With MBx you can use TB to connect to monitor and then you are stuck with USB 2.0 or FireWire (if you are lucky) for HDDs.

 

[APlotdevice]

USB controller chip costs $2. Thunderbolt - $10. These days one gets four USB 3.0 ports on a laptop (not MB, obviously). When will you get four thunderbolt ports? Also, when will thunderbolt controller be integrated into Intel chipset? SO, obviously both TB and USB 3.0 will be used. Most likely all USB 2.0 ports will be replaced by USB 3.0 ports soon. TB will be used for more exotic purposes. Current crop of MBx is really crippled in this regard compared to PC laptops. On PC laptop one can use mDP to connect a monitor and then have two or more USB 3.0 ports to connect external HDD etc. With MBx you can use TB to connect to monitor and then you are stuck with USB 2.0 or FireWire (if you are lucky) for HDDs.

Thunderbolt supports daisy chaining. Meaning that a Thunderbolt peripheral can have its own thunderbolt port to attach an additional Thunderbolt peripheral, which you could attach yet another peripheral to, and so on. Up to seven devices in a chain IIRC.

 

[lilo777]

Thunderbolt supports daisy chaining. Meaning that a Thunderbolt peripheral can have its own thunderbolt port to attach an additional Thunderbolt peripheral, which you could attach yet another peripheral to, and so on. Up to seven devices in a chain IIRC.

To connect those devices how? With 2m long $50 TB cable (the only available option for now)?

 

[gmcalpin]

It's true and it's in violation of both the USB and the Thunderbolt standard. I can't imagine that they can keep that up for long.

The USB standard, maybe, but Sony's not in violation of the Thunderbolt standard, because it's not Thunderbolt. They don't call it that. They don't market it as that.

 

[FakeWozniak]

Finally, I will be able to plug in my Thunderbolt mouse. Now I wonder if I should chain my Thunderbold Display off the mouse... Maybe need a longer cord

 

[APlotdevice]

To connect those devices how? With 2m long $50 TB cable (the only available option for now)?

I believe most of the peripherals so far have had a built-in cable.

 

[munkery]

And TBolt isn't good for ANYTHING.

By that I mean there are not any current or announced native TBolt peripherals, and probably never will be.

The TBolt storage units are not TBolt disks - they are a TBolt controller bridged to a PCIe bus with a PCIe SATA controller connected to SATA disks. ($ cha-ching $)

Same with the Apple TBolt Display - it's a Display Port display housed with a TBolt controller bridged to a PCIe bus with a PCIe USB 2.0 controller, a PCIe 1394 controller, and a PCIe GbE NIC (and possibly a PCIe audio controller).

There are no native TBolt devices, and probably never will be.

Isn't TBolt just a native external interface for PCIe?

So, then all TBolt peripherals will be PCIe based devices.

Making a distinction between TBolt and PCIe is nonsensical given that TBolt only functions via PCIe.

 

[DarwinOSX]

I would consider the lack of TB peripherals a big disadvantage to USB3. Then when they do come out the cost will be another big disadvantage to USB3. I keep saying it and will get all negative votes from fangirls but in its present form with the lack of anything to take advantage of TB's speed, its just another firewire. By the time firewire drives came down in cost it already lost the war to USB, which is really too bad.

You get negative votes because you don't know what you are talking about.
Prove that cost will be a big disadvantage.
FireWire was and is far from a failure.
USB 3.0 is smoked by TB's speed and functionality. Both are Intel technologies and it is very much in Intels interest to see TB do well.
USB 3 devices have only recently arrived in large numbers, many PC laptops still don't ship with it, and there are many advantages to having one small daisy chainable port that does video and data. That is a very enticing proposition to device makers.
A year from now you will feel very silly.

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No. You have simplified it far too much. Look up the spec.

Isn't TBolt just a native external interface for PCIe?
So, then all TBolt peripherals will be PCIe based devices.
Making a distinction between TBolt and PCIe is nonsensical given that TBolt only functions via PCIe.

----------

They licensed it from Intel. That's all that matters.

The USB standard, maybe, but Sony's not in violation of the Thunderbolt standard, because it's not Thunderbolt. They don't call it that. They don't market it as that.

----------

For now would be the key. It won't be that way for long.

To connect those devices how? With 2m long $50 TB cable (the only available option for now)?

 

[AidenShaw]

Thunderbolt supports daisy chaining. Meaning that a Thunderbolt peripheral can have its own thunderbolt port to attach an additional Thunderbolt peripheral, which you could attach yet another peripheral to, and so on. Up to seven devices in a chain IIRC.

Six max.

Thunderbolt is the Porsche of interface at this time. Makes USB 3 look like mere Ford Mustang. There's only time before the interface takes over, unless USB moves quickly to 4 or 5 and smacks down the potential of TB. After only a few months, there are incredible expansion peripherals for TB which trounce what USB 3 offers.

Except for the fact that your "TBolt peripherals" will really be "USB 3.0 peripherals connected throught a TBolt controller and a $50 cable to your system".

Wouldn't a couple of USB 3.0 ports on your computer make a lot more sense?

TBolt will be interesting for some niche controllers, but for 98.314159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510% of the users native USB 3.0 would be a much better solution.

To connect those devices how? With 2m long $50 TB cable (the only available option for now)?

There's some serious voodoo in those active TBolt cables, that's for sure. Ya' gotta' pay the man.

Finally, I will be able to plug in my Thunderbolt mouse. Now I wonder if I should chain my Thunderbold Display off the mouse... Maybe need a longer cord

Love it - mouse with two cables to fit in the daisy chain!

I believe most of the peripherals so far have had a built-in cable.

I don't believe that any TBolt devices have shipped to the general public.

Isn't TBolt just a native external interface for PCIe?

So, then all TBolt peripherals will be PCIe based devices.

Making a distinction between TBolt and PCIe is nonsensical given that TBolt only functions via PCIe.

Not really - TBolt is an external opaque transport to connect external PCIe devices.

There are no TBolt peripherals, only PCIe peripherals.

So, tell the Apple fans that TBolt doesn't exist, that it's nonsensical. (I agree with you here - that's the point that I've been trying to make.) I shudder at the ignorance whenever I see a serious comment about someone wanting a TBolt mouse.

 

[iSayuSay]

And TBolt isn't good for ANYTHING.

By that I mean there are not any current or announced native TBolt peripherals, and probably never will be.

The TBolt storage units are not TBolt disks - they are a TBolt controller bridged to a PCIe bus with a PCIe SATA controller connected to SATA disks. ($ cha-ching $)

Same with the Apple TBolt Display - it's a Display Port display housed with a TBolt controller bridged to a PCIe bus with a PCIe USB 2.0 controller, a PCIe 1394 controller, and a PCIe GbE NIC (and possibly a PCIe audio controller).

There are no native TBolt devices, and probably never will be.

Well .. it's all just the name sir, if you think about it, there is no native external HDD either, it's only a SATA HDD connected through USB controller and housed in so-called external chassis.

So . I guess we shouldn't call it USB External HDD too .. A "Internal SATA II HDD connected via USB controller and mounted on nice chassis" would make a good name, wouldn't you say?

 

[DarwinOSX]

True. Plus Thunderbolt will be getting much faster.

Thunderbolt is the Porsche of interface at this time. Makes USB 3 look like mere Ford Mustang. There's only time before the interface takes over, unless USB moves quickly to 4 or 5 and smacks down the potential of TB. After only a few months, there are incredible expansion peripherals for TB which trounce what USB 3 offers.

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He was obviously joking about the TB mouse. But everything else you said is wrong so you might as well get that wrong too.

Six max.




Except for the fact that your "TBolt peripherals" will really be "USB 3.0 peripherals connected throught a TBolt controller and a $50 cable to your system".

Wouldn't a couple of USB 3.0 ports on your computer make a lot more sense?

TBolt will be interesting for some niche controllers, but for 98.314159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510% of the users native USB 3.0 would be a much better solution.




There's some serious voodoo in those active TBolt cables, that's for sure. Ya' gotta' pay the man.




Love it - mouse with two cables to fit in the daisy chain!




I don't believe that any TBolt devices have shipped to the general public.




Not really - TBolt is an external opaque transport to connect external PCIe devices.

There are no TBolt peripherals, only PCIe peripherals.

So, tell the Apple fans that TBolt doesn't exist, that it's nonsensical. (I agree with you here - that's the point that I've been trying to make.) I shudder at the ignorance whenever I see a serious comment about someone wanting a TBolt mouse.

 

[AidenShaw]

He was obviously joking about the TB mouse. But everything else you said is wrong so you might as well get that wrong too.

Six isn't the daisy chain limit?

 

[ZipZapRap]

That in itself is a huge disadvantage. Even something as mainstream as firewire, there is just nothing out there in terms of numbers compared to USB

Yep - although from what I read, it won't be too difficult making a Thunderbolt port into the shape of USB... Didn't Sony try to do something similar recently? And then screw it up?

As a PC user, this is great news. I still want my USB 3.0 of course, but if I could get one port that accepts USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt, that would just be WIN.

 

[APlotdevice]

I don't believe that any TBolt devices have shipped to the general public.

No, but a few have been shown.

 

[AidenShaw]

No, but a few have been shown.

Well, the vendors have about a week before "summer (NH) 2011" passes without shipping any TBolt hubs to users.

I hope that TBolt doesn't turn into a train wreck, I could really use an external 3ware RAID array....


It's really quite ludicrous:

• February: Apple: Here's the magical TBolt
• September: Crickets....

 

[munkery]

No. You have simplified it far too much. Look up the spec.

Not really - TBolt is an external opaque transport to connect external PCIe devices.

There are no TBolt peripherals, only PCIe peripherals.

TBolt is an external interface for the PCIe protocol while also supporting the DisplayPort protocol.

TBolt peripherals are any peripheral connected via TBolt.

http://www.intel.com/technology/io/thunderbolt/index.htm

 

[KPOM]

I don't know why people keep perpetuating this myth. USB 3.0 isn't better for ANYTHING. It is just cheaper.

Being cheaper is better for low-end devices. I don't need a Thunderbolt mouse, to use one example from this thread. Future Apple notebooks will have USB 3.0 for the cheaper peripherals and Thunderbolt for the higher end peripherals that require more bandwidth.

 

[bigwig]

One of the problems I have with TBolt is that, in a sane world, your TBolt display would be first in the daisy chain, not last, so that I don't have to disconnect and reconnect my display in order to connect and disconnect peripherals. The shock of having your display go dark will be a big turnoff for TBolt users.

As for Intel, they've hinted that they will be selling chipsets that don't have TBolt built in. Since manufacturers kill for a few extra cents of margin, I expect most will choose that no doubt lower-cost option. That's millions of users that won't have TBolt, which just entrenches USB 3 as the standard.

 

[munkery]

One of the problems I have with TBolt is that, in a sane world, your TBolt display would be first in the daisy chain, not last, so that I don't have to disconnect and reconnect my display in order to connect and disconnect peripherals. The shock of having your display go dark will be a big turnoff for TBolt users.

The new displays can be placed anywhere in the daisy chain.

 

[APlotdevice]

^^ Yeah, only a DisplayPort monitor would need to be last in the chain.

 

[tbrinkma]

One of the problems I have with TBolt is that, in a sane world, your TBolt display would be first in the daisy chain...

Well, congratulations. Apple's TB display is designed to not be the last device in the chain. (It has the pass-thru port as well as several USB, FW and other ports.) Unless every other display manufacturer is run by complete idiots, you'll see a lot of displays which are set up to do just that. What you'll really end up with are TB displays which also act as docking stations.