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I'm in the same boat. I run everything on Windows 2008R2 now except NetBoot and Apple SUS. Apple SUS I can live without but not Netboot.

Netboot from BSD.

http://unflyingobject.com/blog/posts/1061

We've still got hardware to work with, but this is what I'm moving toward (and have been testing for a couple of months now). It's either this or stacking Mini's or Pros onsite and managing them from my desk -- not my preference.
 
Wrong time to discontinue the xserve

People are really just starting with apple products. Meaning ipads and iphone in enterprise. It took them some years to get to a stage where companies would consider using iphones and now the ipads for what they do.

Not to mentiion that as more mac users leave uni they would turn to apple for a solution. Having a mac mini and mac pro is enough but considering apple released someftware like final cut server they should havemoved on and considered as someone else said osx server in virtualised environments?

Anyway its a sad day as, the future of osx server is uncertain. Even though you have the mac minis and mac pros you really dont know if apple will pull the plug any day now.

I see many switching to mac pros and mac mini servers (small-medium) companies.
Maybe thats enough for apple? If at least they wont just discontinue the server software just like that and leave everyone hanging :).

Setting up a server for email and calendar is really easy with osx server. Not to mention cheap considering the free licenses. Lets hope apple keeps it that way.
 
I see many switching to mac pros and mac mini servers (small-medium) companies. Maybe thats enough for apple? If at least they wont just discontinue the server software just like that and leave everyone hanging .
I don't think Apple really thought this through. Mac OS X Server on Mac Pro/Mini is fine for a small business but it's not for a lot of industries. Take education when a systemadmin has to support 50, 200...500+ machines. Just when you think Apple is making gains in education, they pull this crap giving sysadmins no good way to manage their networks.

If sysadmins have no way of managing clients, they won't support them. Expect unis and schools to stop supporting Mac clients in labs, etc. And expect Mac zealots to berate those same sysadmins for not supporting Mac OS X on campus. It's a vicious cycle.

As others have said, probably the best thing Apple could do at this point is to quietly virtualize Mac OS X Server and notify those who bought xserves about the option but it appears the writing is already on the wall. Apple has always been a hardware company and if they want back into the server market, they'll either make hardware to make that happen or they'll get out. Unfortunately, the latter is exactly what's playing out here.
 
I don't think Apple really thought this through. Mac OS X Server on Mac Pro/Mini is fine for a small business but it's not for a lot of industries. Take education when a systemadmin has to support 50, 200...500+ machines. Just when you think Apple is making gains in education, they pull this crap giving sysadmins no good way to manage their networks.

All the reviews of the Mac Mini server have touted the infinite client licenses as a plus over Microsoft's offerings. I always wondered just how many of those licenses a Mac Mini could handle, given that it is really a laptop in a desktop case.

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned 10. Is that just an exaggeration or is that all a Mac Mini can reliably handle without slowdown?
 
If thats the case Apple would have canned the Mac Pro and left the Xserve. Why would they turn the Mac Pro into a rackmount when the Xserve already exists?

That makes zero sense. The XServe sold in far fewer numbers than the Mac Pro. The machine that will survive is the one that sells in larger numbers. As of today the XServe doesn't exist as a product in large part because it couldn't "make the numbers". However, these threads are filled with folks moaning about the gap in Apple's product line up for a more easily "rackable" Mac that has the chops to more load than a Mac Mini.


A rackmountable tower can be both. For example:

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/12454-12454-296719-307907-4270224-3718645.html
Form factor
Rackable minitower

The primary reason the current Mac Pro isn't more easily rackmountable is the somewhat gratuitous handles (at least from the racking perspective). That's it. Minor case redesign and it will fit with some optional attachments (e.g., handles or rackframe attach to core base unit. Alternatively a deatchable stand for when floor mounted and handles intregrated into the core "rectangle" like the z800. Or ... about 3 other options that spring to mind that have been implemented. )

It is not like there aren't several vendors who have already solved this configuration flexibility issue. Apple doesn't have to directly copy them but to assert it is difficult or not cost effective (at Apple's price points) is bizarre.

No. It won't be optimized to take absolute minimal space, but it doesn't have to be. If you look around lots of folks only need 1-4 boxes. The rest of their equipment is something else. Sure there are folks who want some "feature 42" that the XServe had. However, if that wasn't a standard feature that a very high percentage of the customers leveraged on a daily basis , it is not a mandatory feature in order to capture some of the former XServe market.

The objective of making the Mac Pro more easily rackable is to increase the number of Mac Pros sold. If they go too low and don't show healthy growth that box will get "end of lifed" also. A modified box doesn't have to draw in all of the old XServe sales, but even 25% would be very helpful in sustaining the Mac Pro (and Mac OS X Server) as a product into the future.

While the XServe existed the "too tall to mount" Mac Pro improved product differentiation for Apple. They drove some folks to the XServe. (just like they drove more than a few folks to XServe when didn't have a sub $1,500 server offering). Without an XServe in the line up there is zero need for that anymore.

As for case redesign not needed or "costly". WTF... the next generation Mac Pro needs a new motherboard anyway ( whole new Xeon family and support chipset being introduced, etc. ) . If there was an opportune time window for a case modification this cycle, due late Summer/ early Fall, is it. It was the wrong time to toss it out as a "just in time" for the XServe retirement. The Mac Pro had just came off an update and it was a "no new motherboard, just a 'tock' Xeon with shrink and minor updates". Mostly a minor firmware bump and a new chip that plugs into a socket anyway.

Apple did exactly what was low cost to do. They put a new SKU in the product line up with the current Mac Pro design. If your argument is the "cheapest" solution; that's it. Furthermore, Apple has a fixed set of enigineers to do Mac development with. With the addition of more MBA models it isn't very surprising that a product that doesn't have "Mac" in its name and sells in lowest volume got the axe. By axing the XServe they should be able to put some of the engineering resources that were going into XServe into the Mac Pro team. If anything there is a net decrease in costs. Having "another" design team to do a separate product increases costs. Also if Apple puts stuff like lockable, but removable front mounted drives or LOM on the Mac Pro that will distribution those design costs over a product with a more customers. Again making cost recovery more reachable.

Hiding improvements in low volume products is not a good strategy of reducing costs.
 
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People are really just starting with apple products. Meaning ipads and iphone in enterprise. It took them some years to get to a stage where companies would consider using iphones and now the ipads for what they do..

Know why it took several years? In part, because all the enterprise folks wanted that integration to happen using standard web/internet based services that they are moving most of their infrastructure.

They didn't want "only can be deployed from specialized megabuck server you can ony buy from us" solution. Therefore, there is no magic synergy here for Mac OS X. You can buy use an iPod, iPhone, and iPad using a Windows based infrastructure. The iPhone doesn't need a "box" in the middle to talk to Exchange (vs. RIM's classic approach to email). That's a key selling point; no need for changes in core infrastructure.
 
I think it's great! Sounds and looks just like an Apple Quality Product

Even their Mannerisms and choice of words sounds just like an Apple product announcement (And I mean that as a Complement)

I've worked with Apple and Linux products for years now and like the idea of just using some software on my MacBook air to control these beasts.

Well done on your video and good luck with the product Launch!
 
All the reviews of the Mac Mini server have touted the infinite client licenses as a plus over Microsoft's offerings. I always wondered just how many of those licenses a Mac Mini could handle, given that it is really a laptop in a desktop case.

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned 10. Is that just an exaggeration or is that all a Mac Mini can reliably handle without slowdown?

sounds about right

you would have to buy more mac mini's than servers to handle the same load. that means more racks, more KVM's, more power, more data center space to pay, etc.

and you can't manage mac mini's like you can hp or dell servers. you would spend a fortune on salaries
 
Apple is going to lose heaps of business? The whole reason they discontinued them is because nobody was buying them.

I don't believe that. What I think is Apple is discontinuing these services because they are moving everything to either the App Store or the Cloud. Apple wants to control the entire Apple experience.
 
The whole reason they discontinued them is because nobody was buying them.

"Nobody" isn't literally true. As a euphemism for relatively few people it is close, but folks here will just construe it as literal.

It got discontinued due to relatively low numbers ( and also likely relatively low, or even flat, growth year over year ).

In the last set of quarterly result, Apple sold about 4M Macs. Conservatively, let's make that 3M/Quarter for a year. So that is 12M Macs per year. I doubt the XServe topped 75,000/yr , but let's just use 100K as a round number.

100K/12M ===> 0.84% of Macs sold.

Less than a percentage point. Rounded down to the nearest whole number that's zero (nobody). If Steve Jobs is present a pie chart in a Mac market status update meeting the XServe would be some tiny, thin sliver on the chart.

Similarly, Apple's share of the overall Intel server market... far below their percentage share of the overall PC market. Again, probably less than a 1% share.

So yeah, 10,000 organizations could have bought 4 XServes each. Relatively that isn't enough to justify putting money into the product when it doesn't return more that 10x the amount of money that other products that sell in much larger numbers (> 10x as many) return.

I also wouldn't be shocked if several years ago Apple's "enterprise" customers pounded the table for stuff like dual power supplies, LOM , etc. "If you just put this stuff in we and others will buy dramatically more numbers of XServes " .... which also likely didn't pan out. Apple has tweaked and updated the XServe for years and it never "took off". (for a variety of factors including increased competition on both service/support consolidation and hardware/appliances ).


With the flushing out of the MBA into two subproducts there are just as many "macs" in the line now as there were before.
 
What I think is Apple is discontinuing these services because they are moving everything to either the App Store or the Cloud.

The AppStore and iOS don't have to be looped in at all to discontinue the XServe. The rest of the Mac business is doing well enough to "do away" with something without a Mac label that sells in non-competitive percentages.
 
Rounded down to the nearest whole number that's zero (nobody). If Steve Jobs is present a pie chart in a Mac market status update meeting the XServe would be some tiny, thin sliver on the chart.
Just as with any statistic, you can make the data say just about anything. There's always data behind the data. Of course the percentage of XServe sales isn't significant in the grand scheme of Mac sales. Nor does it have to be. The human brain only averages about 2% of a human's body weight but doesn't mean it's only 2% significant compared to the rest of the body.

Apple is forgetting that behind every XServe sale is likely a few Mac sales to go along with it. The whole reason people buy Xserves is to serve other Macs. Admins don't buy XServes to run Apache or postfix or other internet services (though they do a good job at that.) They run them as the way to administer client machines.

And servers aren't like Apple's consumer products where consumers upgrade their hardware more frequently. Going from PPC -> Intel was a huge leap in performance. The last couple revisions of hardware weren't as significant so I would wager admins didn't really need to upgrade. Plus, swapping out a server isn't something you want to do every year anyway. Look at who's buying XServes—school districts and universities, big corporations, etc—and their upgrade cycles are much slower than the average consumer which translates into slower sales.
 
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