Adobe CS5 and EFI 32/64

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by JesterJJZ, Mar 28, 2010.

  1. JesterJJZ macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    #1
    Here's a question. Will the 64bit move by Adobe offer anything if it's run on EFI32? Will I notice improvements even on my 2006 1,1?
     
  2. robbieduncan Moderator emeritus

    robbieduncan

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    Jul 24, 2002
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    London
    #2
    Can you run 64-bit apps now? Can you install more than 4Gb of RAM?
     
  3. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

    Staff Member

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    Dec 10, 2008
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    #3
    It can utilize +3GB of RAM. You can still get the full performance of 64-bit app when running 32-bit kernel. I don't get the 64-bit kernel stuff, it's not faster really and if it is, it isn't much
     
  4. JesterJJZ thread starter macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    #4
    Well yeah, that's why the 64 bit kernal stuff is confusing me. What is it exactly about the 64 bit kernal that makes it better?
     
  5. robbieduncan Moderator emeritus

    robbieduncan

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    #5
    For standard desktop users it isn't better (at least yet). That's why if you buy a brand-new Mac Pro today with OSX client (not OSX server) it'll boot the 32-bit kernel.
     
  6. bozz2006 macrumors 68030

    bozz2006

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    Minnesota
    #6
    It'll make everything faster when programs get so big that they congest each other. Think of it as moving from a 2 lane highway to a ten lane highway. Right now there is hardly enough traffic to make a 2 lane highway congested, but soon enough there will be, making being on a ten lane highway beneficial. But as of right now, it won't do much for you.
     
  7. Cindori macrumors 68040

    Cindori

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    Jan 17, 2008
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    Sweden
    #7
    32 Bit OSX (kernel, EFI, same ****) can still run 64-bit apps. Correct me if I'm wrong but OSX is not yet powerful enough to benefit from 64-bit (or rather: not be saturated by 32-bit)
     
  8. lloyd709 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    #8
    I was wondering the same thing - more specifically though, will CS5 be able to address more than 4 Gig of memory on my 2006 1,1 MacPro?
     
  9. beto2k7 macrumors 6502

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    #9
    no.
     
  10. TheStrudel macrumors 65816

    TheStrudel

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    Jan 5, 2008
    #10
    As I understood it (and I suggest you read John Siracusa's articles about OS X on arstechnica, as he explains a lot in a very easy-to-read fashion), the point of a 64-bit kernel is to run 64-bit kernel extensions and allow the kernel to address more than 4 GB of RAM, and is part of a general modernization of OS X. You don't need it and won't need it for quite some time, but upgrading it now allows the transition to be more painless in the future.

    The same could be said of Snow Leopard in general. It's way more forward thinking than not and most of its technologies have not been used in any shipping software, but allows future software to be anywhere from 2 to 10 times faster on the same hardware.

    Right now, there's no need for 64-bit goodness in the kernel, but keep in mind, 128k of RAM seemed like plenty for the original Macintosh until it was halfway through development.

    CS5 and any other software will still be great without a 64-bit kernel. Don't worry about it. I don't think it'll be an issue for about 5 years. Two at the very least.

    The software can definitely address more than 3 GB of RAM even if the kernel is only 32-bit. That's not the cause of the RAM limitation. The kernel's only doing kernel business and kernel extensions, which is almost always lower-level stuff that does not have much overhead or much relation to the end-user GUI actions aside from drivers, etc.
     
  11. Dr.Pants macrumors 65816

    Dr.Pants

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    Jan 8, 2009
    #11
    Fixed. When speaking strictly from a RAM perspective...

    This. If you have more then 3GB of RAM installed, CS5 should be able to use it (ignoring processes using additional memory).
     
  12. lloyd709 macrumors 6502

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    Jan 10, 2008
    #12
    beto2k7 wrote "no" in answer to my question whether CS5 can address more than 4 GB of RAM on my 2006 1.1 Mac Pro. However, a number of posts here seems to imply that that the 64 bit thing is of little relevance. Well it is of very big relevance if it means that by not having it I'm only limited to 4GB of RAM with Photoshop.

    So with all due respect to beto2k7 can anyone confirm that this is correct (that CS5 will not be able to address more than 4 GB of RAM on my 2006 1.1 Mac Pro) - because it will be the one and only reason why I would want/need to upgrade.
     
  13. Infrared macrumors 68000

    Infrared

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    #13
    Some programs already perform (slightly) better when the 64-bit
    kernel is running:

    http://macperformanceguide.com/SnowLeopard-Performance.html

    I think it might be worth noting that you get more in 64-bit mode
    than just a larger address space. For OS X you get NX stack and
    heap protection. There are more registers - that can mean more
    efficient code. There is an extended instruction set.
     
  14. Pressure macrumors 68040

    Pressure

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    Denmark
    #14
    I wouldn't worry much about it. Mac OS X supports "Physical Address Extension” 36-bit memory addressing, so even your Mac Pro 1,1 can address 64GB of ram. Although any individual application is still limited to a 4GB limit. Unlike Windows, however, in Mac OS X the given application has access to the full 4GB of ram.

    So unless you do anything really demanding the 32-bit running Mac Pro's should be fine for quite some time.

    CS5 should, finally, be ported to Cocoa 64-bit (from Carbon), so it can access more ram and resources.
     
  15. iamcheerful macrumors 6502

    iamcheerful

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    #15
    Adding to what you mentioned (well, this is just a very quick overview from Lloyd Chambers) ...

    source: http://macperformanceguide.com/SnowLeopard-64bit.html
     
  16. Dr.Pants macrumors 65816

    Dr.Pants

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    Jan 8, 2009
    #16
    You'll be fine. If the application in CS5 is 64-bit, then it will be able to address more RAM then your machine can hold. And it seems like CS5 has to head for 64-bit.

    What these people have been talking about is the 64-bit kernel which doesn't need to be 64-bit - you can address more RAM with a 32-bit kernel thanks to Physical Address Extension as Pressure noted.
     
  17. nanofrog macrumors G4

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #17
    That's what Adobe claims. ;)

    How heavy is CS with floating point calculations (I'd think not that much, but I could be missing something, as I don't use that software)?
     
  18. lloyd709 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    #18
    Sorry, but there still seems to be some confusion here still. To quote Pressure - "any individual application is still limited to a 4GB limit" but you state that CS5 (I'm assuming you mean the single Photoshop application) will be able to address all my RAM.

    So which is it guys? Will CS5 be able to use more than 4GB of RAM on my 1.1 Mac Pro or not? We could have a vote on it!!
     
  19. nanofrog macrumors G4

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    May 6, 2008
    #19
    Yes. Up to 64GB anyway (limit of 36 bit addressing, as Pressure has already mentioned).
     
  20. lloyd709 macrumors 6502

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    Jan 10, 2008
    #20
    Sorry, but Pressure also said, to quote "any individual application is still limited to a 4GB limit". So by saying "as Pressure has already mentioned" gives me doubts.
     
  21. nanofrog macrumors G4

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #21
    The 4GB application limit would be under K32, not K64 from what I can tell (OS X's memory management).

    The 36bit addressing patch crap makes understanding the details a damn mess IMO (no idea if there's issues with it = doesn't work as expected). :rolleyes: :(
     
  22. TheStrudel macrumors 65816

    TheStrudel

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    #22
    I was given to understand that as long as the app itself was 64-bit, it could use more than 4 GB of RAM regardless of whether you booted K32 or K64. At least, this was the understanding I got from the ArsTechnica articles.

    Regrettably, I don't have the latest version of FCS, which (I think?) had either Motion or Color as a 64-bit app, or I'd test that right now. I was holding out for the next FCS 8 and will buy CS5 as soon as I can.

    If somebody can settle this definitively, preferably with a reference, that'd be great. Alternatively, a screenshot showing a 64-bit app using more than 4 GB of RAM with K32 booted.
     
  23. Infrared macrumors 68000

    Infrared

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    #23
    In FCS 3, FCP, Motion, Color, Soundtrack Pro, DVD Studio Pro
    and Compressor are 32-bit apps.
     
  24. TheStrudel macrumors 65816

    TheStrudel

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    Jan 5, 2008
    #24
    Yeah, I remember again why I was going to wait for the next release.

    For a company trying to get moving on 64-bit,  sure hasn't been moving real fast.

    Anyway, I fully expect CS5 to blow me away just based on what they've demo'd so far and the speed increases we're bound to see.
     
  25. JesterJJZ thread starter macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    #25
    So what's the verdict? We're getting conflicting answers. Will CS5 on my MacPro 1,1 see and use more than 4GB of RAM even in EFI 32bit?
     

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