Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I would just like to say it's nice to have an ADULT conversation about Flash and trying to get it to run as well on OSX as it does on Windows.

I don't care who did what, and why this was done to who so that they could blame someone else etc etc.

Surely the ideal scenario for everyone is that things run as well on one platform as they do on another.

You only need to notice the fact that these very mac forums are littered with Flash adverts all over the place to realise it's not going to disappear any time soon.

Let's just all want the best for our systems and not try any block things for petty personal reasons. I'm all for people having the maximum choice they can have.

Which really is my only 1 major gripe against Apple. Not giving users the choice to do things the way they want to, but rather the way Apple think you should do.

If they could just stop doing that, then they would be my ideal company.
 
I don't care who did what, and why this was done to who so that they could blame someone else etc etc.

Surely the ideal scenario for everyone is that things run as well on one platform as they do on another.

That would be the ideal scenario. Unfortunately, that's not how it works. Two seperate platforms, two different methodologies. Apple imposes (and is slowly loosening up) restrictions on the hardware interaction level so that flash on OS X has to do things a little bit differently than it does on windows. The result of this is less than stellar performance. Restart any mac in windows and watch flash run great on the same hardware.
 
Wow, everyone has really been drinking heavy on the Steve Jobs Kool-Aid around here, huh?


Even the biggest proponents of HTML5, aside from Apple, have admitted that the time when it completely succeeds Flash is still years away. Flash is here to stay for a little while at least, even though I'm not a huge fan of it either. So they might as well keep attempting to make it perform better.
 
Not just flash, remove java.
And python, php, etc. and don't allow for Ruby. All those are buggy and slow... and non standard.

Apple should only be the latest version of Objective C!

In the event that you're not joking, you seem to be confused. Flash is primarily intended for client-side interactive applications, animations, and, due to poor life choices, videos (and games and ads). The key here is client-side.

Python, PHP, and Ruby run server-side, and it all happens before it gets sent to your machine. (Nobody sends Python code to your browser and excepts to hook into some interpreter on your computer.) Java is perhaps most commonly used this way (as JSP, similar to PHP and ASP), but, of course, it is also possible to write client-side applets (and applications) with it. In any case, users really shouldn't be able to tell--and generally shouldn't have any reason to care--what's being used server-side. The browser sure doesn't.

I'm having problems parsing and relating your Objective C comment to the rest of the post, but as far I as I know there are no Web frameworks written against it. :D
 
I'm flash free for the last year or two. No number of bits will bring me back. Sorry Adobe, you're going the way of the dodo. (well at least flash is)
 
Good move... now where's my 64 bit reader plugin

I'm forced to use 32-bit safari in snow leopard due to Adobe's decision to leave fallow their Adobe Reader plugin... I have an active Adobe Professional 9 license and they still have the same old plugin as the free Reader, and it doesn't support the latest Safari.

Where's my plugin, Adobe? I'm a paying customer.
 
The coolest part about this isn't just that it's 64-bit but this:

The fact that they are modernizing their flash code to use Cocoa instead of whatever the older flash used (carbon?) is a big deal and a huge step forward for flash.

I wonder if they are using the work they did for the iPhone.
More specifically the Actionscript front end for LLVM compiler.
 
Using no scripts and flash blockers I've encountered the many joys of living a Flash-free lifestyle. I hope you approve.
 
or the fact that html 5 isn't even a solution yet. Its not even close to being mature.

And yet myself and millions of web designers are using it TODAY. Clients want it TODAY (latest memo from Goodwill Industries Corporate Office that was released three months ago requested that all regional offices' websites be redone using html5, that was YESTERDAY X 90)

People who don't code in html on a daily basis really have no clue what the misunderstandings they keep posting relentlessly actually mean. You can use html version 5 right now. Some browsers work better than others with the code. SO AS ALWAYS, since like forever, you code for several situations. That is just what you do. What you don't do is wait for standards to be "mature" as that is not a reality when it comes to the W3C, it is ALWAYS evolving, as a web designer you are always trying to hit a moving target. Not comfortable with that, get into a different line of work. But the idea of waiting for a web standard to be "mature" is so laughable tears are running down my eyes right now.

10.1 has been around for a few months already, that isn't news. :rolleyes:
And 10.1 is even suckier on my Macbook pro than before, but mine is the older one (late 2007 model) so I lose out on the hardware integration.

Wow, everyone has really been drinking heavy on the Steve Jobs Kool-Aid around here, huh?

Even the biggest proponents of HTML5, aside from Apple, have admitted that the time when it completely succeeds Flash is still years away. Flash is here to stay for a little while at least, even though I'm not a huge fan of it either. So they might as well keep attempting to make it perform better.
Or drinking the Flash Koolaid. I use Click to Flash so I can see on every site how much Flash junk is on it. Or the whole site is junk. I was just at the Kitchenaid site, that was all Flash. I was trying to buy a stand mixer, but it was so hard to find anything and once I did the text was small, blurry and unreadable and I couldn't enlarge it. I left the site and went somewhere else. Anyone who is smart and is into quality web development is moving away from Flash. Even SlideshowPro (which is a component for Flash, I made many an enemy on those boards by pushing for alternative ways to show content) have re-written their program to now embed an html5 media player into web pages for image slideshows or videos. Of course it works for iPad et al, but the added bonus is that it will play in html5 if I have Click to Flash installed. When you have a plugin to block Flash your really see how ridiculously annoying it is. And what a breath of fresh air a website is that doesn't have Flash or automatically has an alternative that kicks in if Flash is blocked or not supported.

I personally have been working over time to be the kind of web designer that has support for all instances, I use script that will default to Flash if nothing else will work. I have been doing this for about twenty years, and believe me, it is so much easier to support both html5 and non-html5 browsers than it used to be to support old Internet Explorer weirdness and then everyone else! Oh and I wiped all my sites of Flash right now, TODAY, the only exception is the fall-back mode for video that uses an open source Flash video player. But it only loads if a browser won't read html5 video tags, my slideshows are all javascript which is actually the first scripting I studied about six years ago and it has matured (oh wait there is that "mature" word again, well it certainly has evolved, which is a better word for web code anyway, "mature" as a word better suited to living entities)
 
And 10.1 is even suckier on my Macbook pro than before, but mine is the older one (late 2007 model) so I lose out on the hardware integration.

Blame Apple for not properly releasing APIs that support your hardware. Of course, you would never dream of blaming Apple even though they are responsible, best deflect unto Adobe.

I personally have been working over time to be the kind of web designer that has support for all instances, I use script that will default to Flash if nothing else will work. I have been doing this for about twenty years

So you know Tim Berners-Lee and worked with him on the initial release of the www ? How was WWW on NeXTSTEP ?

Hint, the WWW came about in 1991. It didn't take off immediately as far as "web design" goes. I really doubt you've been at it 20 years.

my slideshows are all javascript which is actually the first scripting I studied about six years ago and it has matured

Wait, you've been doing the web thing 20 years (before the web even existed) and you've only studied scripting since about 2004 ? Talk about a late bloomer. You were doing what before 2004 ? Geocities pages with animated gifs ? Javascript, DOM scripting and CSS were already very important back in 1999 unless you liked table based layouts.

Blaming font size and blurriness on Flash, site navigation faults on Flash, etc.. You really sound like a kid who's never done this, especially with your "years" being all over the place and completely irrelevant to reality. Hint, navigation, font faces/sizes have nothing to do with the technology and everything to do with the designer. You can have a **** site in HTML5 and a beautiful site in Flash and vice versa.
 
Blaming font size and blurriness on Flash, site navigation faults on Flash, etc.. You really sound like a kid who's never done this, especially with your "years" being all over the place and completely irrelevant to reality. Hint, navigation, font faces/sizes have nothing to do with the technology and everything to do with the designer. You can have a **** site in HTML5 and a beautiful site in Flash and vice versa.

No, he was blaming Flash for the fact that, when faced with a site where the fonts were too small to read, he couldn't resize things to the point that he could read them. Flash is missing out on usability standards. If you have poor eyesight, you can't tell flash to render everything at 150% normal size, for example. HTML (including HTML5) *does* allow for that.
 
People who don't code in html on a daily basis really have no clue what the misunderstandings they keep posting relentlessly actually mean. You can use html version 5 right now. Some browsers work better than others with the code.

I work with web design daily. Your last statement tells me you are either A.) bad at what you do B.) don't care about standardization or C.) are full of crap.

No developer in their right mind would code something that only works on some browsers. Its all about cross compatibility these days.
 
Blame Apple for not properly releasing APIs that support your hardware. Of course, you would never dream of blaming Apple even though they are responsible, best deflect unto Adobe.

So you know Tim Berners-Lee and worked with him on the initial release of the www ? How was WWW on NeXTSTEP ?

Hint, the WWW came about in 1991. It didn't take off immediately as far as "web design" goes. I really doubt you've been at it 20 years.

Wait, you've been doing the web thing 20 years (before the web even existed) and you've only studied scripting since about 2004 ? Talk about a late bloomer. You were doing what before 2004 ? Geocities pages with animated gifs ? Javascript, DOM scripting and CSS were already very important back in 1999 unless you liked table based layouts.

Blaming font size and blurriness on Flash, site navigation faults on Flash, etc.. You really sound like a kid who's never done this, especially with your "years" being all over the place and completely irrelevant to reality. Hint, navigation, font faces/sizes have nothing to do with the technology and everything to do with the designer. You can have a **** site in HTML5 and a beautiful site in Flash and vice versa.

I have been doing computer graphics for well over twenty years. Some of the first networking we had was intra-office and small local networks. No graphics at that time, all bulletin board systems, and I have been in this field (computer based design) since 1987, print graphics mostly at the beginning and before that I did all old style graphic design, with pens, line tape and stat cameras.

But bottomline, I was working on networks so early that the world wide web wasn't really in place yet. And not that I owe you any explanation, but as a graphic artist, my web work was mostly visual for many years, I didn't try to program scripting until fairly recently (and actually it was more like seven or eight years ago I started to study javascript - time flies!)

I am not a kid by any means, hint, I was born in the late 50's. I did work with Flash when it started to get more popular, but I preferred to stick with clean coding in my webpages and not depend on Flash because some things are easier to do in it. I have said many times here, I have gotten paid over and over again to take Flash based websites and convert it to html and CSS based. I have a huge portfolio of websites I have done, do you? Where is your Flash portfolio if you think it is such great stuff?

One thing I do agree with you on is that some people make the most horrendous Flash sites and that KitchenMade site was the worst I have seen, mostly because I couldn't read the information, and when I am getting ready to shell out $350-$500 for a mixer I want to know what I am getting. I was also on Jenn-air's website recently to get a gas cooktop (yes, I love to cook) they had a Flash website too, I couldn't get any information at all from that site unless I allowed the Flash to play. That is super bad marketing and for what? A few animations on the links? At least that site was readable, but each page took forever to load. Just an awful experience. I am very excited about the new changes in html, especially since it involves javascript and not Actionscript. We will be able to do more and more cool things without the drawbacks of being forced to use the Flash Player.

But as far as my laptop goes, I am not sure why Apple would release APIs to newer machines and not older ones. I could also be that the graphic cards wouldn't be compatible. Does anyone know? I don't know that much about hardware, my focus is pretty much always on the software.
 
But as far as my laptop goes, I am not sure why Apple would release APIs to newer machines and not older ones. I could also be that the graphic cards wouldn't be compatible. Does anyone know? I don't know that much about hardware, my focus is pretty much always on the software.

Because thats simply what Apple does.
 
No, he was blaming Flash for the fact that, when faced with a site where the fonts were too small to read, he couldn't resize things to the point that he could read them. Flash is missing out on usability standards. If you have poor eyesight, you can't tell flash to render everything at 150% normal size, for example. HTML (including HTML5) *does* allow for that.
Yes, you are correct, except I am a SHE not a HE.

I work with web design daily. Your last statement tells me you are either A.) bad at what you do B.) don't care about standardization or C.) are full of crap.

No developer in their right mind would code something that only works on some browsers. Its all about cross compatibility these days.
What are you talking about??? My html5 pages work on all browsers right now. Not all browsers can render html5 elements so the code has FALL-BACKS for all other browsers. There are a ton of web designers working with html5 code right now, you can find lots of samples to use. I test my sites on my husband's PC that is running XP and Explorer 7 so I can see if they work. If they work on that old thing they will work on any Web-kit based browser.

Perhaps you are just out of the loop of where web design is going, here, let me give you a few links...
http://diveintohtml5.org/
http://www.eleqtriq.com/
http://videojs.com/
http://www.kaltura.org/
http://www.apple.com/html5/

To answer your accusation about Standards I am quoting Apple on html5 and standards:
Every new Apple mobile device and every new Mac — along with the latest version of Apple’s Safari web browser — supports web standards including HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript. These web standards are open, reliable, highly secure, and efficient. They allow web designers and developers to create advanced graphics, typography, animations, and transitions. Standards aren’t add-ons to the web. They are the web. And you can start using them today.

Perhaps you are thinking if a web page doesn't validate with WC3, it isn't standards. They are so tight that I can't validate my CSS rounded corners, but so what, it works (except old IE, oh well they see square corners, I can live with that). I do check my pages with their validator, but I mostly design based on what works on the browsers I test (which is pretty much all of them except perhaps iCab) If it works I use it whether it validates or not. It will eventually, but the WC3 is really slow to say something is official, that is also why some people are saying html5 is years away. It isn't, when Microsoft releases their next browser that is html5 compatible things will move even faster (I think hubby is finally going to get a new PC with Windows 7 next year)

Oh, and it is really rude to say that someone is full of crap, is that the best argument you can come up with?? I have thirty or more clients that I work with, if I am bad at what I am doing, I wouldn't have a Graphic/Web Design business with a two month waiting list.
 
Generally on a Mac you want all of your apps to be 64 bit to save on memory. Loading 32 bit apps while running an otherwise 64 bit system causes the loading of 32 bit versions of many libraries into memory.

It sounds and looks good but technically, it's desperately wrong.
64 bits apps always use more memory are 32 bits ones. (sorry but 64>32)

Jumping to 64 bits leads to various speed improvements, highly depending of the job to be done, in most cases, it does not make really sense to implement 64 bits apps.

64 bits is justified mainly to handle specific processing of large data, such as images or movies.
It's also an amazing keypoint for marketing purposes...

In the case of Adobe, related products are more Photoshop, Premiere, CS5, etc.

Another reason that may explain the delay for Adobe with 64 bits migration is the Apple's Carbon API to is NOT 64 bits portable. Solution is to rewrite the GUIs with the new Apple's Cocoa API...

(When reading this comment, I decided to join the community in order to reply, so Welcome everybody)
 
What are you talking about??? My html5 pages work on all browsers right now. Not all browsers can render html5 elements so the code has FALL-BACKS for all other browsers. There are a ton of web designers working with html5 code right now, you can find lots of samples to use. I test my sites on my husband's PC that is running XP and Explorer 7 so I can see if they work. If they work on that old thing they will work on any Web-kit based browser.

My point is proven. Professionals do not live by that mentality. Also, most professional developers test browsers in a clean environment either with test boxes or VM's.
 
What are you talking about??? My html5 pages work on all browsers right now. Not all browsers can render html5 elements so the code has FALL-BACKS for all other browsers.

A graphics designer trying to teach us about HTML. So which is it, do your HTML5 page work on all browsers or is it that not all browsers can render HTML5 and you require fallbacks ? :rolleyes:

Contradictions, Contradictions.

My point is proven. Professionals do not live by that mentality. Also, most professional developers test browsers in a clean environment either with test boxes or VM's.

Not to mention that if he ends up using IEisms, it will work on IE7 and will look on crap on everything else. Too bad he just used IE7 to test... Seriously.
 
A graphics designer trying to teach us about HTML. So which is it, do your HTML5 page work on all browsers or is it that not all browsers can render HTML5 and you require fallbacks ? :rolleyes:

Contradictions, Contradictions.



Not to mention that if he ends up using IEisms, it will work on IE7 and will look on crap on everything else. Too bad he just used IE7 to test... Seriously.

Exactly. Took the words right out of my mouth.
 
No developer in their right mind would code something that only works on some browsers. Its all about cross compatibility these days.

Traditionally, waiting for Internet Explorer to support a "standard" meant waiting a LOOOOONG time. It's that developer attitude to wait for IE that has lead to such crap web sites for so long. Yet hypocritically MANY MANY web sites coded ONLY for IE non-standards for a long time leading to only further entrenchment of that browser. It was not only non-standard, but it only supported ONE brand of operating systems. The latter is still true today, even with IE9. Safari, Chrome and Firefox all manage to provide cross-platform browsers (well only half a point for Safari since it doesn't support Linux, although many browsers exist for its web kit core), yet Microsoft (the largest tech company out there supposedly...at least most of the year) cannot manage to make IE for multiple platforms? Pshaw. Why support browsers that don't care about standards or anyone else? Numbers. That's it.

Because thats simply what Apple does.

Or to actually explain WHY they do it would mean to point out that Apple wants you to CONTINUALLY buy new hardware. They didn't support H264 hardware decoding on my Sept. 2008 era MBP even though it was only 1.5 years old when they added support in OSX for newer models. 1.5 years old is TOO OLD for Apple to bother these days. They might as well start leasing computers for 1 year intervals because anything older isn't going to be well supported by them. It is my personal opinion that Mac users are going to get more and more sick of that crap as time goes on and the support levels just keep dropping and dropping and dropping. It WILL backfire on Apple sooner or later. I know I'm ticked about a 1.5 year old Mac (still not 2 years old until next month) not getting hardware decoding when the GPU supports it. Frak Apple. They're too greedy these days.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.