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Adobe Responds to Apple's Anti-Flash Stance With Comments on Openness, Ad Campaign

Adobe Bollocks...

open markets bull*****...

if they're so open, why is an upgrade to CS5 for design premium $599 in the USA, and £624 in the UK...

and most of the upgrade is just fixing things they should of fixed in CS4 in the first place.

Arses! Sorry to go slightly off topic... but they're starting to wind me up.
 
fervor said:
Someone sounds more than a little defensive, eh?

Adobe needs to get over it. Maybe they should concentrate on engineering a decent MacOS implementation of Flash - that might go farther in trying to fight the bad PR than a defensive ad campaign.
Click to expand...

Again...ignorance.... Have you tired the Flash Player "Gala" Preview Release? I'm not trying to defend Adobe here... I just hate misinformation.
 
Momentum momentum momentum....

Apple and HTML5 have it...Adobe doesn't.

End of story with Flash in web advertising etc. -- maybe not for other applications, but it won't be long.
 
I'm confused...is Adobe deliberately trying to mislead people, or is ActionScript no longer proprietary?

To say they stand behind "openness" but require ActionScript to create Flash content doesn't make sense to me.
 
mimeArtist said:
open markets bull*****...

if they're so open, why is an upgrade to CS5 for design premium $599 in the USA, and £624 in the UK...

and most of the upgrade is just fixing things they should of fixed in CS4 in the first place.

Arses! Sorry to go slightly off topic... but they're starting to wind me up.
Click to expand...

What a crime isn't it? And Apple is charging over $1000 dollars for a core2dou in their notebooks with their recent half-assed update? How come you don't see that?
 
This comment would have been the first response if flash didn't overheat and crash my mobile device! :D

But seriously, i wouldnt care about which format my content was in if flash didn't totally suck. running flash already turns computers into hot griddles. imagine running it on the ipad?? flash is a JOKE. sorry adobe, let it go
 
lewchenko said:
As a Mac and PC user I support Adobe's view.

I just want my iPhone and iPad to play Flash material IF I CHOOSE to look at it. Not exactly too much to ask is it.

And having seen flash running on Android devices (quite easily too), I cant help but think Apple is simply being this way because they want to control everything.... and that is insane.
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+1 Well stated. Simply give users the choice.
 
Dear Adobe,

I'm glad that you love choice.

You know what your customers love?

Not having apps that perpetually crash while doing the most basic tasks. Like quitting an app.

It's a hard fact to face since it is much easier to hate on Apple, but the hard truth is your products are bloated and crash too frequently.

The whole "we love choice" makes for good pr in the press, but falls on your customers' deaf ears since your products are so shoddy. Steve ultimately wins this argument in our minds–even those of us who don't want an Apple ecosystem–because he makes the point that flash can't and doesn't work in a mobile world. It's hard to make political and philosophical arguments when your products just can't deliver.

As a customer of your products, I hope you take the hard lesson, look inward, and see the shambles that is your product line.

Fix your products Adobe. If you want to win, start there.

Your pal,

Bobby W.

P.S. Just a reminder: Microsoft tried the whole "choice" play to try to stop the iPod + iTunes juggernaut. It didn't work. Ultimately, customers buy the better product at the right price. Only the fringe segment of a target market buys on philosophical arguments, which is easy to forget since that segment tends to be industry mavens and be very vocal. But the majority of your customers could care less and just want to buy and use great products and move on with their lives. Microsoft learned the hard way as they watched better products crush their zune, mobile, et al. strategies.

P.P.S. The whole Google is supporting Flash is a flimsy aliance. Google hates Flash more than Apple does. You two have a short term mutual enemy, that's all. Just be ready to be knifed in the back at some point.
 
zombitronic said:
Who controls the World Wide Web? And we believe the answer is: nobody -- and everybody, but certainly not a single company.

So why the big pouty face over many companies dropping Flash?
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I don't get Adobe stance on this. If no one controls the World Wide Web, then why should we continue to use a closed, proprietary format with Flash? Their argument is completely ridiculous.
 
We believe open markets that allow developers, publishers, and consumers to make their own choices about how they create, distribute, and access content are essential to progress. That's why we actively support technologies like HTML4, HTML5, CSS, and H.264, in addition to our own technologies.
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Choice? That why you bought Macromedia and dropped Freehand?
 
I really believe that the people that follow this kind of news are aware that uninstalling flash will render them unable to play Farmville. No one will go crying to you :)
benpatient said:
If flash sucks so much, vote with your browser and don't install it.

Just don't come crying to me when you can't play farmville or whatever.
Click to expand...
 
Alright Adobe, now you just sound like whiners. Apple has every right to control their platform the way they want to. If they wanted to limit it to Basic programming, they could.
This is a simple case of Adobe needing Apple to support Flash more than Apple needs to support Flash.
 
This is a slight of argument, to intimate that Apple's position is to somehow control the direction of the web through lack of choice. This is misleading at best and, in my opinion, outright dishonest.

Apple has one of the best mobile browsers on the market. Nothing comes close to touching it. They also have one of the best implementations of allowing so-called "web apps" available to iPhone OS devices around. This is the open web. These apps can be and frequently are available to other devices as well, because they are based on standards. To say that Apple is closed is just a bitter way of saying that Flash has been shut out of the equation that is the open web: HTML5, canvas, SVG, CSS, Java Script. Apple does not control this any more than Mozilla, Microsoft, or even Adobe, who is also a member of the W3C that controls these open standards.

Trying to make the link between Flash (closed) and the web (open) is ridiculous. Being apart of the open web does not make Flash open. Pure and simple.

On the other hand, Apple also has the proprietary option: XCode, Objective-C applications. These are, by definition, closed and Apple (and Steve Jobs) makes no qualms about this. It is their platform, and they have every right to choose its direction and not be at the whims of 3rd parties that have downright poor records of holding back the progress of the platform.

It is extremely annoying to continue to see Adobe respond in this manner: dishonest and misleading, trying to link Flash with openness and completely ignoring Apple's mobile WebKit implementation that uses open standards, is an option FOR EVERYONE (iPhone OS device or not).

Adobe must think it's customers are stupid and blind to the obvious error in their argument. The world is moving on from being tied down to their products.
 
RT2020 said:
Again...ignorance.... Have you tired the Flash Player "Gala" Preview Release? I'm not trying to defend Adobe here... I just hate misinformation.
Click to expand...

I haven't, I'll admit it. In fact, I was unaware of it. Wouldn't it serve Adobe better to get that out as a release and spend their money advertising it?

I would think they'd win a lot of MacOS users over by showing they are willing to (finally) correct course on Flash for MacOS - it's been a LONG time coming.
 
benpatient said:
Apple says they support open standards and all of that when it comes to HTML5, but they fail to mention that they mainly support HTML5 as a video layer, and that the encoding platform BEHIND that video layer that they are supporting is typically H.264, which is a proprietary codec set that may or may not suddenly have a licensing restriction placed upon it in the next 2 years, or any time in the future, without warning or legal recourse.
Click to expand...

The h.264 licence is renewed every 5 years, and is guaranteed never to increase more than 10% at each renewal.
 
lewchenko said:
As a Mac and PC user I support Adobe's view.

I just want my iPhone and iPad to play Flash material IF I CHOOSE to look at it. Not exactly too much to ask is it.

And having seen flash running on Android devices (quite easily too), I cant help but think Apple is simply being this way because they want to control everything.... and that is insane.

Really leaves a sour taste in the mouth to be honest.

I personally think Steve's recent rant about Flash was nothing but a crock of PR horse sh**. Maybe Im immune to the infamous 'reality distortion' field that seems to infect most users on this website judging by the replies to this story so far.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. I believe the majority of the people on this forum are a bunch of lemmings following Steve's orders. Sad.
 
Openess?

I'm 100% in favor of open standards and open source technology but Apple should stop treating their customers as idiots and pretending they own the internet, therefore they set the rules...

Could Mr. Jobs show me how to access... let's say Disney.com (company he pretty much owns), on an iPad, iPodTouch, iPhone? The whole site is packed with Flash video, Flash interfaces and Flash games.. So no, you don't have the WHOLE Internet in your hands when you can't even access the websites of companies you own.

Today everyone hates Flash because Mr. Jobs has said we should. I agree, we don't need Flash to play videos (and perhaps not even to build complex interfaces) but good luck programming Flash games in HTML 5!

Anyway, my five cents on this topic and my first post in this forums, so please be nice :)
 
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