Adobe Video Usage: NVIDIA GTX 1080 FE vs. Sapphire PULSE RX 580 8GB

bsbeamer

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The question is asked a lot about AMD and NVIDIA cards with Adobe CC products and I'm in a unique position with access to both cards right now.

Here are some initial speed tests and notes using both the NVIDIA GTX 1080 FE 8GB and Sapphire PULSE RX 580 8GB with an authentic Mac Pro 5,1 with 12-core 3.46ghz and 128GB RAM, running 10.13.6 with Adobe CC 2018 products. Literally same exact machine and setup with just GPU swap in slot 1. They are both 8-pin powered internally.

The results from the (older) AfterBenchCC v1.1 tests in After Effects CC 2018 with RX 580 and GTX 1080 FE are posted below. Speeds with GTX 1080 FE were generally the faster result, but there are exceptions. Despite claiming CPU tests, they are not 100% CPU only with CC 2018.

AfterBenchCC v1.1
RX580 / GTX1080
MP Disabled: 3:56 / 3:20
4K All CPU & Keyframe Handling: 11:43 / 7:51
4K Encoding H264 10kbps: 0:47 / 0:44
Fractal Noise 4K All CPU: 6:05 / 4:44
4K Encoding MP4 4kbps: 0:25 / 0:26
Raytrace & Environment Map GPU: 0:06 / 0:26 ***
Cineware Rendering: 3:16 / 3:15
Element 3D Benchmark: 11:38 / 12:04
*** Unsure if this is an error, did not dig through the error report.

Cinebench R15 (bad test, but just for FYI)
RX580 / GTX1080
OpenGL: 65.25 fps / 57.77 fps
CPU: 1608 cb / 1600 cb

Geekbench 4
RX580 OpenCL: 135465
GTX1080 OpenCL: 172525

In Premiere Pro CC 2018, setup an unscientific test timeline with fractal generators (and a few others) and forced rendered the entire timeline. The RX 580 processed these clips about 10-15% faster than the GTX 1080 FE.

However, with an actual real-world timeline with footage from various sources, various resolutions, various codecs, and multiple stacked effects (both native and 3rd party) the GTX 1080 FE was more than 25% faster the majority of the time.

IN GENERAL Premiere Pro CC 2018 plays files back "better" with the GTX 1080 FE and using CUDA as a renderer (only available with NVIDIA). Overall the software just feels speedier and you less often have to force render stacked effects when the "red render bar" is on top of the footage. You can actually get decent playback with red bar timeline sections with the GTX 1080, but the RX 580 needs to render those clips the majority of the time to get any legitimate playback preview. Regardless, if it's mission critical - render your work to see the results, don't trust a preview.

Some effects are individually better with each card, but overall there is not a huge difference between RX 580 and GTX 1080 within Premiere. Has a lot more to do with fine tuning from 3rd party manufacturers to take advantage of the GPU properly. This should improve over the next few months, especially if the RX 580 is the recommended card and with all of the eGPU’s using the RX 580. Expect to have some updated products out around NAB 2019.

Metal seems to work better with the RX 580, but in general still needs improvement within Adobe applications. There are random hiccups and/or glitches that need to be re-rendered, stacked/nested, or fixed in some way. If under a time crunch would choose working with OpenCL over Metal with RX 580 if given the option, but ultimately I’d choose the GTX 1080 FE and CUDA - it’s just more reliable.

Worth noting - swapping GPUs with Premiere Pro CC 2018 requires basically trashing preferences at the program startup. There is a hang/hiccup in the application launch that just gets stuck when sensing a different GPU. Should be interesting to see how Adobe handles that if NVIDIA cards ever work with eGPU. Can't imagine people being happy with that approach.

Hope this helps someone out there make an informed decision!
 

bsbeamer

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Unfortunately, this is not native or widely available. Adobe will not tailor their software to an NVIDIA eGPU until official support is available - either directly from NVIDIA via the NVIDIA Web Driver, or until Apple enables (via Web Driver or native). There have always been hacks and workarounds, just like those with TB1 and TB2 that were using during beta before being officially cutoff for TB3 only with the official release.
 

bsbeamer

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FWIW, passing along info from another forum in case it is helpful for anyone making GPU decisions...

Adobe MAY be removing CUDA as a renderer option from Premiere Pro and Media Encoder in the next version released for macOS. Currently CUDA is not an available project rendering option in After Effects on Mac, but CUDA is available in Premiere Pro and Media Encoder. Same forum post mentions Adobe will be focusing on Metal and Software Rendering on Mac moving forward.

As of right now, NVIDIA Web Drivers are still not available for Mojave. According to NVIDIA, CUDA requires NVIDIA Web Drivers on Mac. Wait until the upcoming Apple event to see if there is more info available. Several plugin manufacturers have been optimizing for AMD RX580's recently.
 

bsbeamer

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Have been thoroughly testing the Sapphire Pulse RX 580 8GB on and off for several weeks with Mojave 10.14.3 18D109 and the latest updates of all Adobe CC 2019 applications. Some observations that may be relevant or helpful...

Application start time has dramatically decreased with Mojave 10.14.3 18D109 & RX 580 vs. High Sierra 10.13.6 & GTX 1080 FE. Application versions are identical in each OS and experience at least 2-3x faster start/launch in Mojave & RX580. Specifically notice much faster speeds with Adobe video applications (AE, Media Encoder, Premiere Pro) that have a lot of plugins. Aside from hardware swap between RX580/GTX1080 nothing has physically changed in the system. (NVMe EVO 970 via PX1 as boot drive. Both GPUs have 8GB memory.)

Mojave & Metal in Premiere Pro still has issues that Adobe has not fixed. The most annoying one is a known/reported error that occurs with "Safe Margins" on Program or Preview windows when Metal is the GPU accelerator. Basically you can't see your video and you get a big white line at the bottom. Turn "Safe Margins" off and everything works normally. Overlays does not impact in this way. This can be worked around by using/creating a guide layer on your top video track. These issues do not happen with OpenCL as the Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration selection. (Get your **** together Adobe! This should have been fixed in the first point release for Version 13/CC 2019.)

With After Effects, Ray-traced 3D is officially depreciated. AE shows "CUDA" greyed out, as expected. Ray-tracing is CPU only, GPU not supported, and "GPU not available - incompatible device or CUDA driver" is the message. If you are still using Ray-Traced 3D in AE, change your workflow. There is discussion the next version will officially stop supporting natively. Recommend you stay on HS 10.13.6 with CUDA and NVIDIA GPU. Clone your system drive and keep a working version around, just in case an update with Creative Cloud happens to background install and remove your old version. (It has happened before, the app/updater is still terrible.)

Overall, renders in AE do not seem to be all that different or noticeably slower with RX580 in CC 2019. One interesting observation, SOME extremely text-heavy renders are almost 30% faster with the RX580 in Mojave. Did not expect that and did not experience the same when just testing in High Sierra between both GPUs. Something about Mojave specifically impacts this.

Media Encoder renders/encodes that can take advantage of Metal are greatly accelerated, nearly on par with CUDA and in some instances 20%+ faster. Still wish there was more that Media Encoder could do with Metal GPU acceleration. Likely need to wait for MP7,1 to see that happen in macOS.

The areas of CUDA acceleration are missed in Mojave. It's a workflow I had been using for probably 10+ years. CC 2019 definitely overall improves with Metal support vs. prior CC 2018 testing, but there is still work to be done. Hopefully Adobe keeps listening to feedback and makes improvements going forward. Looks like Apple/AMD/Adobe is the combination most will be stuck with for the future, so let's make the best of it that we can... right?
 

bsbeamer

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Head's up to anyone using ANY NVIDIA GPU with Adobe's latest software in Mojave. There is a new System Compatibility Report and it will basically autolaunch on startup for Premiere Pro CC 2019 13.1.0 Build 193. If you are using an NVIDIA GPU, you will get this message:

Screen Shot 2019-04-04 at 7.54.36 AM.png

These two lines from the report state:

Video NVIDIA GeForce Kernel Extension v.12.0.0.0
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. NVIDIA CUDA is not currently supported in macOS 10.14 or later. If you are using an Apple-authorized NVIDIA GPU, you should be able to continue to use the Metal Mercury Playback Engine.
URL: https://helpx.adobe.com/nz/premiere-pro/kb/gpu-and-gpu-driver-requirements-for-premiere-pro.html

Video NVIDIA Resman Kernel Extension v.12.0.0.0
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. NVIDIA CUDA is not currently supported in macOS 10.14 or later. If you are using an Apple-authorized NVIDIA GPU, you should be able to continue to use the Metal Mercury Playback Engine.
URL: https://helpx.adobe.com/nz/premiere-pro/kb/gpu-and-gpu-driver-requirements-for-premiere-pro.html

----

IGNORE THE NVIDIA LINKS ON THOSE PAGES - THEY ARE NOT CURRENT VERSIONS

Note on METAL ACCELERATION below. Basically need to be on High Sierra or Mojave at this point. Sierra's support days are numbered. Dual GPU's are supported in Windows currently.

----

Apple Metal GPU acceleration
Adobe supports those versions of Windows and macOS that are still actively supported by Microsoft and Apple. For macOS, that typically means the three most recent versions.

That holds true for the latest releases as well. However to realize the performance benefits of Apple’s Metal graphics acceleration, the 2019 version of Premiere Pro needs to run on either macOS 10.13 (High Sierra) or the recently launched 10.14 (Mojave).

You can still run Premiere Pro on macOS 10.12 using OpenCL graphics acceleration, but Metal provides 15-20 percent faster rendering and Adobe recommends it for optimum performance.
 

hifimac

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So I guess this means CUDA is completely dead on macOS. Only hope going forward for 3D on a Mac is headless rendering in Octane.
 

bsbeamer

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CUDA is now High Sierra only. NVIDIA currently advises all to stay on High Sierra 10.13.6, use NVIDIA Web Drivers, and latest CUDA 10.1 drivers.

This is unsustainable long term for most software manufacturers. Adobe isn’t waiting. Their embrace and refinement to Metal in the past 2 years have been substantial. Blackmagic is right up there with Metal support. I’d assume Avid will be about the same in next release. Creative video market is Mac saturated and they aren’t leaving that customer base anytime soon, regardless of those machines being the best technical tools for the task or not.

What RED decides to do for/with Mac in the short term will be interesting. Their partnership with NVIDIA complicates this a lot.

Autodesk is another beast all together. Rumors of going back to Linux for high end. I’m sure we’ll learn more next week on that.
 
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AidenShaw

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So I guess this means CUDA is completely dead on macOS. Only hope going forward for 3D on a Mac is headless rendering in Octane.
Or it means that Apple OSX is dead for many important applications, and it's time to buy a Z-series....

Adobe's apps and most of the other important ones like Avid are multi-platform, after all. ;)
[doublepost=1554425658][/doublepost]
Creative video market is Mac saturated and they aren’t leaving that customer base anytime soon, regardless of those machines being the best technical tools for the task or not.
If the MP7,1 is as bad as many fear, that creative video market is lost.

("Bad" means closed, none upgradeable, no PCIe slots, artificial blocks for Nvidia GPUs, .... In other words, "Trash Can ][" would be bad.)
 
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startergo

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Or it means that Apple OSX is dead for many important applications, and it's time to buy a Z-series....

Adobe's apps are multi-platform, after all. ;)
[doublepost=1554425658][/doublepost]
If the MP7,1 is as bad as many fear, that creative video market is lost.

("Bad" means closed, none upgradeable, no PCIe slots, artificial blocks for Nvidia GPUs, ....)
Hey don't kill the cMP altogether. Linux and Windows still run fine
;)
 
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bsbeamer

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In “Hollywood” areas, maybe. Outside of that, not a chance. The number of people doing paid video work on Macs is not dwindling. Again, they do not always use the best tools for the task but the iMac/iMac Pro, MacBookPro and MacMini are being used more and more in professional video facilities.

True 3D is another beast. If you’re serious about 3D animation, compositing, modeling, etc you’re already using Windows/Linux or custom solutions. Apple’s toying with VR had promise they would maybe enter this space, but unless it’s an FCP7 style game changer software that works with iOS it’s not happening.

Adobe is doing more and more for 3D and VR and working with Apple (and Microsoft) while doing it. There were thoughts of them going Linux or custom OS several years ago, but their current platform agnostic solution works well for many. People still complain about their subscription model but it does work, regardless of the bugs.
 

crjackson2134

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There are some very large organizations that produce their own training and instruction video courses, as well as some large teaching institutions, that are all running on Mac. They turn-out very professional work product and won’t be switching from Mac at all anytime soon.
 
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bsbeamer

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Update/note on multiple GPU setups in Premiere Pro CC 2019 13.1.0 Build 193

You CAN use/utilize multiple GPUs in macOS Mojave with CC 2019, but currently only if the additional GPUs are connected via eGPU. The software is basically compatible with any combination of GPU that macOS can natively recognize, BUT there appears to be an issue with macOS being able to actually fully utilize dual+ GPUs connected via PCIe or via PCIe expansion. This limitation would really only apply to MP5,1 (and MP4,1>5,1) and seriously doubt it will be seriously addressed.

Unsurprisingly, Adobe is recommending using macOS Mojave with latest updates for multiple GPU optimization. Apparently this was easier to implement with Metal than any previous method? Also guessing this may be easier with eGPU vs. multiple internal based on the available OS tools to switch/select eGPU natively built into Mojave.

If you're on MBP, iMac, or MacMini with TB3 and using an eGPU box, this is good news. Hopefully this trickles down to dual or multiple PCIe GPU optimization at some point, but unless users specifically request that type of support it likely will not happen (and slim chances even then). Guessing the MP7,1 also has a lot to do with this how this is implemented in the future and the direction of additional improvements moving forward.

https://www.adobe.com/products/wishform.html
https://www.apple.com/feedback
 
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bsbeamer

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As expected, looking like Autodesk is basically going back to Linux for 2020 high end products.

"Flame 2020 also focuses on productivity. For instance, with the Automatic Background Reactor mode, triggered immediately after modifying a shot, sends jobs to process. Accelerated, automated background rendering allows Flame artists to keep projects moving using GPU and system capacity to its fullest. This feature is available on Linux only, and can function on a single GPU.

There’s also licensing support with Flame 2020. With Single User License Offering, Linux customers can now opt for monthly, yearly and three-year single user licensing options. Customers with an existing Mac-only single user license can transfer their license to run Flame on Linux."

http://www.postmagazine.com/Press-Center/Daily-News/2019/Autodesk-announces-Flame-2020.aspx
 

bsbeamer

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Adobe Premiere Pro CC November 2019 release notes now state:

The Metal GPU renderer option in the Project Settings dialog box is now the recommended renderer for Premiere Pro on macOS. For more information, see Create a project.

Minimum specs now state Intel 6th Gen or newer CPU, Mac hardware from 2016 or later for hardware acceleration, and Mac Metal GPUs.


After Effects CC November 2019 release notes state:

Multicore Intel processor with 64-bit support and macOS version 10.12 is not supported.


GPU requirements now state:

To realize the performance benefits of Apple’s Metal graphics acceleration, the 2019 version of Premiere Pro needs to run on either macOS 10.13 (High Sierra) or the recently launched 10.14 (Mojave).

You can still run Premiere Pro on macOS 10.12 using OpenCL graphics acceleration, but Metal provides 15-20 percent faster rendering and Adobe recommends it for optimum performance.
 

bsbeamer

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Premiere Pro 2020's render & playback settings clearly label OpenCL as deprecated... thought they were being depreciated, but whatever?

Screen Shot 2019-11-04 at 4.56.49 PM.png


All Adobe 2020 video products also include system compatibility report tools, expanded from just Premiere Pro earlier. The move to Metal on macOS basically needs to be embraced at this point or move to PC.
 
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AlexFresneda

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Tengo esta máquina, actualmente tengo instalado el premier pro 2020, tengo el gráfico NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6143 MB con una RAM de 80 GB DDR3 de 1066 MHz y un procesador Intel Xeon de 6 núcleos de 2 x 3.46 GHz con SSD, que Graphic me recomienda hacer que Premiere Pro 2020 funcione mejor en el procesamiento de metales. y qué sistema operativo debes instalar
Captura de pantalla 2019-12-31 a las 11.51.41.png
 
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