Afraid to upgrade from MBP 15" 2017 to current MBP 16"

nmaxcom

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 28, 2014
73
7
I switched from Linux/Windows to macOS about 4 years ago, and I haven't looked back. Very happy with the change.

However, I've learned that Apple is... unreliable at best. Significantly overpriced products, not a great listener of their userbase, new macOS's that break some compatibility by surprise, weird new issues (like the GPU fault in the 16"), awful butterfly keyboards and so on. I already have 3 keys falling off!

I hate the way they lock you into whatever OS they want (AFAIK I couldn't go from Catalina to Mojave). macOS Sierra has been great for me, but the new ones? Jeezus. I'm worried about not being able to use some apps, the same way I had to disable GateKeeper to use them. So far I'm only aware of the 64-bit only apps.

Catalina doesn't have excellent reviews, and the new MBP has that security chip (that maybe is not disableable if I ever needed that), and I don't know what other things that may be pain points.

I want the new MBP because of the better keyboard, screen, and power. I'm afraid of what may be in store for me with everything else, especially after paying such amount of cash. They can do a lot of damage under their "innovation" and "security" banner.

Am I being reasonable with that line of thinking? Is there something important that will creep in in the new MBP? Something I should be aware of?

Thank you!

EDIT: I finally bought the MBP for the reasons I gave before buying: my current MBP's keys were falling apart, and I could use a performance bump.

It was a bit of a nightmare. I wanted to use a student's discount. I ordered the 32GB version but they sent the wrong MBP (and without the AppleCare I also bought). I had to talk to several support people from Apple. They confirmed the error was on their side but I had to buy the MBP again (through telephone this time) without having the money from the wrong MBP (that would take a couple of weeks to clear)...
I was very polite but insisted on getting the right address for the AppleCare and the nice guy from support swore to me that this time everything would turn out perfect etc. Well, it didn't, they "forgot" to include the AppleCare even though they charged me for it. I'm still trying to clear this up with them.

When it comes to the MBP, I still think it's overpriced (I also still think is the best laptop for my requirements) and I also have the frozen issue. It freezes up to 10s from time to time when watching a fullscreen video on Chrome. In VLC it freezes like a second when scrubbing 🤷‍♂️

Thank you, everybody, for your input!
 
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donawalt

macrumors 6502
Sep 10, 2015
460
198
I'll chime in here, of course you are going to get a lot of opinions on this board. First, this board is biased toward people with problems with their computers. Most people don't frequent boards like this to say all is well. I will say, if you do extensive Google search of the reviews of the MacBook Pro 16", the reviews are overwhelmingly awesome. They are not like prior years - no keyboard complaints, no throttling, no regular crashes, plus all the positives - larger screen in the same package due to smaller bezels, faster, revamped keyboard that eliminates the 2016-2018 keyboard problems, more memory and disk if needed, etc. I just read another review today on how excellent the 2019 16" MacBook Pro is.

On here - you will see people with crash issues - that don't like the new keyboard - that have display issues - and more. But look at the number of people with problems based on the number of people that have purchased these laptops. It's an infinitesimal sample size! In sales and market share, this has been by far the most successful MacBook Pro in the last 4 years. Q3 and Q4 of 2019, the latest data available, Apple sold over 10 million Macs. Apple does not break it out into specific Mac/Macbook models, but it's a whole lot more positive experiences than you see here.

So what to do? From my work I have bought a different MacBook Pro each of the last 5 years, 16" included. Each time, I do a BTO - build to order - I order something that is not a large quantity on the shelf version of the laptop - more memory, maybe the 4 TB disk, etc. Call me superstitious, but I have had NONE of the problems experienced here. Do I spend time finding the YouTube video that if I click fast forward every 2 seconds I will hear a slight popping? No. But if I don't experience an issue in my normal work, is that really an issue? This laptop is AWESOME. As an aside, I check my crash logs weekly - zero crashes.

So maybe if you are concerned, buy one, and add some memory or another option that makes it less of the large quantity manufacture version. Unless you see a problem experienced by someone here in real work that matches the work you do, don't worry about it. I would not hesitate to buy another 16"- this is the best Mac I have ever bought. You will find other threads here where owners say the same thing. The 1% owners have issues, but most won't.

Let us know what you do and how it turns out - good luck! (that always helps)!!!!
 
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sdp77

macrumors member
Nov 10, 2019
98
29
Unfortunately, the latest 16" seem to be assambled with whatever parts they have available, good or bad. I have just received my new 16" and, 24 hours later, it froze. I had to force shut down and got a panic log when I turned it back on.
The sound, nothing like what it's described, the room feeling clear bass sound. There is hardly any bass at all, it sounds just like my 13". I thought, maybe, they came up with a way to adjust the sound settings and I missed something but, there is no such thing.
I am almost out the door to take it back.
 
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Steve686

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Unfortunately, the latest 16" seem to be assambled with whatever parts they have available, good or bad. I have just received my new 16" and, 24 hours later, it froze. I had to force shut down and got a panic log when I turned it back on.
The sound, nothing like what it's described, the room feeling clear bass sound. There is hardly any bass at all, it sounds just like my 13". I thought, maybe, they came up with a way to adjust the sound settings and I missed something but, there is no such thing.
I am almost out the door to take it back.
Ok.

My opinion and experience is exactly the opposite of your experience.

I don't know exactly who told you a laptop was going to fill a room with bass, but if you took that literally, maybe more research with the product before you buy next time.
 

throAU

macrumors 603
Feb 13, 2012
6,360
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Perth, Western Australia
Am I being reasonable with that line of thinking? Is there something important that will creep in in the new MBP? Something I should be aware of?
I've been a pretty vocal critic of apple hardware in recent years, however I would consider/am considering a Macbook Pro 14" or 16" depending on what is announced in coming months. I'm wanting updated CPUs and preferably a 14" machine with decent RAM capacity. Getting the 13" in a spec i'm interested in at the moment kinda pushes me into 16" pricing. Then again, i may end up going 16" anyway and use an ipad to cover the 13-14" laptop use case.

I very much suspect the keyboard is fixed (it's the old one, i had no issues with) and the only real issue on the 16 that i have heard people complaining about is an audio pop after playback stops. Which is a software issue apparently.

As to dropping support for old apps - whatever platform you are running, this is something you will need to get used to. Old software has problems and we (the industry) have learned a lot about how to write more secure software in the past couple of decades. Fixing these issues will require dropping support for old APIs, etc. that a lot of this old software uses (because if these APIs are not secure and still PRESENT in the OS, then they can potentially be exploited).

SIP, whilst breaking some old apps is a GOOD THING from a security standpoint. It enables a secure root of trust for the machine to use to validate whether or not software is signed properly, and digital signing can be used to confirm whether or not software has been validated as not malicious.

If you're not comfortable with this sort of thing now is the time to consider a machine from system76 and switch to linux. But be aware that eventually as Linux gets more support it will become victim to the same sorts of attacks that stuff like SIP and digital signatures are designed to prevent.

Relying on "don't run dodgy stuff from the internet" is no longer good enough. PC/network security is my job, and attacks are simply becoming too sophisticated to rely on the end user (myself included) not making a mistake - and systems are becoming too complex and capable of automatically doing stuff before you even get input on the process to rely on, absent some secure method of validating whether or not code (or data) is from a trusted source. And that requires a secure root of trust.
 

randomgeeza

macrumors 6502
Aug 12, 2014
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United Kingdom
I switched from Linux/Windows to macOS about 4 years ago, and I haven't looked back. Very happy with the change.

However, I've learned that Apple is... unreliable at best. Significantly overpriced products, not a great listener of their userbase, new macOS's that break some compatibility by surprise, weird new issues (like the GPU fault in the 16"), awful butterfly keyboards and so on. I already have 3 keys falling off!

I hate the way they lock you into whatever OS they want (AFAIK I couldn't go from Catalina to Mojave). macOS Sierra has been great for me, but the new ones? Jeezus. I'm worried about not being able to use some apps, the same way I had to disable GateKeeper to use them. So far I'm only aware of the 64-bit only apps.

Catalina doesn't have excellent reviews, and the new MBP has that security chip (that maybe is not disableable if I ever needed that), and I don't know what other things that may be pain points.

I want the new MBP because of the better keyboard, screen, and power. I'm afraid of what may be in store for me with everything else, especially after paying such amount of cash. They can do a lot of damage under their "innovation" and "security" banner.

Am I being reasonable with that line of thinking? Is there something important that will creep in in the new MBP? Something I should be aware of?

Thank you!
Reading the above, you say you are happy and yet you don't sound happy.

No product is perfect, nothing in life is perfect. If you want one, get one. You've had issues with your old Mac product and no doubt you will have issues with a new product. It's called life and you need to start living it, instead of worrying about things that may not come to pass.

Now go get your new MacBook and enjoy it.
 

XNorth

macrumors 6502
Feb 23, 2018
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United States
I'm afraid of what may be in store for me with everything else, especially after paying such amount of cash.
You make it sound like Apple is out to scam and screw you over. If you have doubts and can’t make up your mind, then don‘t buy. why torture yourself. why would anyone spend a couple thousand on anything they are not sure about?

On the other hand Apple, one of the most admired and successful tech companies in the history of the world, gives U.S. buyers 14 days to return their purchase and a 1 year warranty. so even though you hate Apple‘s practices but want their computer, yet afraid because of the small sample but vocal negative forum posts, you are protected by Apple’s full refund policy and warranty should you reluctantly give Apple your money.

I have used the new MBP 16 inch daily for 2 months now with no issues. It’s my fourth Macbook and it is the best one yet.
 

leman

macrumors G4
Oct 14, 2008
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In terms it hardware reliability, Apple is comparable to any other premium laptop manufacturer. There are no flawless laptop lines out there.

In terms if software, it’s more interesting. Apple has a much more rapid system development cycle then other platforms and is less concerned about backwards compatibility. They communicate changes beforehand and they expect software developers to adapt quickly - which sometimes does not happen. If software stability is your primary goal and you are relying on software that is not being actively maintained, I’d advise you to stay away from MacOS.

That said, 2016 MBP and current macOS are both excellent.
 

akash.nu

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May 26, 2016
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In terms it hardware reliability, Apple is comparable to any other premium laptop manufacturer. There are no flawless laptop lines out there.

In terms if software, it’s more interesting. Apple has a much more rapid system development cycle then other platforms and is less concerned about backwards compatibility. They communicate changes beforehand and they expect software developers to adapt quickly - which sometimes does not happen. If software stability is your primary goal and you are relying on software that is not being actively maintained, I’d advise you to stay away from MacOS.

That said, 2016 MBP and current macOS are both excellent.
Adding to this, if you’re relying on software that’s no longer maintained then find alternatives and move on ASAP.
 

maflynn

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May 3, 2009
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Am I being reasonable with that line of thinking? Is there something important that will creep in in the new MBP? Something I should be aware of?
Well, you start off your thread with some significant negative comments, I'll come at it at this angle. If you're not happy with Apple or the MBP, then why spend money on it? There are other laptops and platforms to use if you're truly unhappy with the Mac platform.

The 16" 2019 MBP is definitely a better product than the 2016 - 2019 15" laptop simply because apple finally replaced the flawed and defective butterfly keyboard. Yet it does seem to have its own issues - if you don't want to spend 3 to 4k and deal with those, then definitely move on.
 
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leman

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Adding to this, if you’re relying on software that’s no longer maintained then find alternatives and move on ASAP.
Unfortunateky, this is not always an option, especially in company environment.

Between us hovered, I completely agree with you. I mean, I don’t even have office on my machine 😅
 
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maflynn

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Adding to this, if you’re relying on software that’s no longer maintained then find alternatives and move on ASAP.
How often does this really happen? I mean outside of apple killing off its apps, how often does it occur that major applications are not updated to the latest revision of macos and are rendered usable in that new version?

Take Aperture, It hasn't been updated since 2014 and only now in Catalina it's not working.

Don't get me wrong, its more of a risk with the mac platform then windows, but I don't think there's huge swaths of apps not working in macOS. I will add that I'm largely out of the loop with MAc apps since I'm on the windows platform so my thoughts, and assumptions may be out of date.
 

insited

macrumors newbie
I started off the same...Linux and Windows user, constantly switching between the two because of what I could do development wise in Linux, and what software was only available in Windows (Adobe for e.g). I gave macOS a try and saw that it has a similar development environment as Linux and the creative software available on Windows and then some.

So I switched to mac OS X and it was great until it had cloud services added in an update that made the system slow on any machine that didn't have ssd or flash storage. Prices also hiked up around then too. Build quality nosedived. I bought the 12" macbook when they first came out as an 'upgrade' to my macbook 2011 15". The 2011 was fast due to ssd & ram upgrade (although I couldn't use it from 2012 - 2015 as there was a fault with the amd gpu that apple didn't recall until 2015) but the low resolution made creative work almost impossible when wanting to output images above 1080p. The left shift key fell out of the 12" for no reason 5 days after purchase and apparently this was my fault. 1st gen butterfly keyboard. Before the genius rep could even finish his sentence blaming me I asked for a refund since it was under 14 days purchase. I then paid a bit more for the macbook pro 2016 13" no touch bar instead, knowing that lacking a T2 chip much like the 12" series would dodge some upcoming bugs from apple. That machine was great until the battery expanded due to Apple supplying a faulty battery from factory then refusing to replace the battery for their own recall. I booked it through this website Apple posted about the recall after entering my serial number to find it was part of the affected batch. Had to get a third party repair as Apple removed it from their repairable devices after the expansion! Thought I could use the extra screen space and got a 2015 iMac 27" but that started getting severe screen ghosting only 6 months after purchase, Apple rejecting a screen replacement even though that issue is widely reported. Had to set the screen to sleep within 1min although image burns after 10 seconds so having it as a large background monitor with extra info on display is now useless and the whole point of buying it is missed. I'm typing this message on that iMac actually, as I've had to fall back on that and my 2016 as I await a replacement/new logicboard/rejection for my brand new, faulty out the box macbook pro 2019 16" (1tb nvme, 64gb ram, 8-core i9 2.3ghz, 8gb amd 5500m) that won't stop freezing & restarting in the middle of using it (not bad magic bug). This wall of text cost me approximately $18,000.

In the meantime, I've figured out how to do hardware-passthroughs in Linux using Qemu, so I no longer have to switch between Linux & Windows, they both run at the same time. I might even add macOS and a dedicated amd gpu to my workstation just to laugh at how that setup can run for months on end without a crash. Most likely because I'm in charge of the hardware and not some nickle & dime operation masquerading as a computer company.


BTW - is your 15" affected by a battery recall? You could be eligible for a new battery.
 
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akash.nu

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May 26, 2016
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How often does this really happen? I mean outside of apple killing off its apps, how often does it occur that major applications are not updated to the latest revision of macos and are rendered usable in that new version?

Take Aperture, It hasn't been updated since 2014 and only now in Catalina it's not working.

Don't get me wrong, its more of a risk with the mac platform then windows, but I don't think there's huge swaths of apps not working in macOS. I will add that I'm largely out of the loop with MAc apps since I'm on the windows platform so my thoughts, and assumptions may be out of date.
Some people get stuck with applications that don’t get updated often enough.

I have a personal example. I used to use text wrangler as my preferred text editing application. Had to stop using it because they didn’t keep up with the macOS updates. There were a couple others I can’t remember but haven’t missed them as much. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Steve686

macrumors 68040
Nov 13, 2007
3,440
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US>FL>Miami/Dade>Sunny Isles Beach>Condo
I started off the same...Linux and Windows user, constantly switching between the two because of what I could do development wise in Linux, and what software was only available in Windows (Adobe for e.g). I gave macOS a try and saw that it has a similar development environment as Linux and the creative software available on Windows and then some.

So I switched to mac OS X and it was great until it had cloud services added in an update that made the system slow on any machine that didn't have ssd or flash storage. Prices also hiked up around then too. Build quality nosedived. I bought the 12" macbook when they first came out as an 'upgrade' to my macbook 2011 15". The 2011 was fast due to ssd & ram upgrade (although I couldn't use it from 2012 - 2015 as there was a fault with the amd gpu that apple didn't recall until 2015) but the low resolution made creative work almost impossible when wanting to output images above 1080p. The left shift key fell out of the 12" for no reason 5 days after purchase and apparently this was my fault. 1st gen butterfly keyboard. Before the genius rep could even finish his sentence blaming me I asked for a refund since it was under 14 days purchase. I then paid a bit more for the macbook pro 2016 13" no touch bar instead, knowing that lacking a T2 chip much like the 12" series would dodge some upcoming bugs from apple. That machine was great until the battery expanded due to Apple supplying a faulty battery from factory then refusing to replace the battery for their own recall. I booked it through this website Apple posted about the recall after entering my serial number to find it was part of the affected batch. Had to get a third party repair as Apple removed it from their repairable devices after the expansion! Thought I could use the extra screen space and got a 2015 iMac 27" but that started getting severe screen ghosting only 6 months after purchase, Apple rejecting a screen replacement even though that issue is widely reported. Had to set the screen to sleep within 1min although image burns after 10 seconds so having it as a large background monitor with extra info on display is now useless and the whole point of buying it is missed. I'm typing this message on that iMac actually, as I've had to fall back on that and my 2016 as I await a replacement/new logicboard/rejection for my brand new, faulty out the box macbook pro 2019 16" (1tb nvme, 64gb ram, 8-core i9 2.3ghz, 8gb amd 5500m) that won't stop freezing & restarting in the middle of using it (not bad magic bug). This wall of text cost me approximately $18,000.

In the meantime, I've figured out how to do hardware-passthroughs in Linux using Qemu, so I no longer have to switch between Linux & Windows, they both run at the same time. I might even add macOS and a dedicated amd gpu to my workstation just to laugh at how that setup can run for months on end without a crash. Most likely because I'm in charge of the hardware and not some nickle & dime operation masquerading as a computer company.


BTW - is your 15" affected by a battery recall? You could be eligible for a new battery.
sorry to “hear” ALL of that.

some buyers just seem to get all the bad apples.

I’ve bought dozens of Apple products and the only real issue I’ve had was the replaceable batteries on my 2008 MacBook Pro. They did swell enough to affect operability of the computer.

It’s almost as if there is some central source of product failure for some users like what the medical community calls “cancer clusters”.
 

nmaxcom

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 28, 2014
73
7
Hey, thank you, everybody, for chiming in. I've read every message in detail and learned a few things from them. FWIW I'm from Spain.

I'm a generalist (as opposed to a specialist). I use computers for almost everything you can imagine. That's where I've found some software not working after some "updates", for example, when analyzing malware (although this I do it in a virtualized env anyways), and also working on algorithms. Some software you won't see working everywhere, and it's always been under the claim of keeping me safe. I think I'm old enough to trust particular sources; I wouldn't like a chip that can't be overridden thinking it knows better.
But that's ingrained in their core. They know better.

I started off the same...Linux and Windows user, constantly switching between the two because of what I could do development wise in Linux, and what software was only available in Windows (Adobe for e.g). I gave macOS a try and saw that it has a similar development environment as Linux and the creative software available on Windows and then some.
That sounds right on my alley. And it's too bad you've had all those issues :\

Reading the above, you say you are happy and yet you don't sound happy.
This is a great way to summarize my relationship with The Empire. I don't want to sound too Richard Stallman-ish, because he's too far for my taste. But I think it's reasonable to say they are a tad sketchy.

See, the problem I have is that they engage in dishonest practices that directly affect their users way too frequently without giving two *****. They charge ultra-premium for everything, while not providing an ultra-premium product or customer care. There's a massive disconnect between what they portray to sell and what it is.

Sure, all giants play dirty now and then. But Apple seems to do it more often and a bit more twisted with that high and mighty "we're above else" BS while reaching deep into your pockets.

They promote the all-apple-life-system crap I can't buy into. Sure, it'll make them even more prosperous, but it's an unreasonable proposition. Apple doesn't make all the best tech products. IMO they have some of the best computers and a great OS experience. Although to be fair when comparing, they choose exactly what hardware it's going to run on. You can squeeze every damn transistor when you don't have to be flexible like Win/*nix has to).

And what's with all the "no repair" sabotage campaign? I bought a product that costs a small fortune, and I don't own it? Seriously? I have a tiny chip failure and "I'm sorry we'll have to get you an entirely new motherboard for only 999.99...". Come on! That is not right.

I wouldn't have the guts to sell premium-priced laptops with a keyboard that takes one week to know it doesn't belong in a high-end product. The famous overpriced dongles? Removing the audio jack on phones? The damn 1k monitor stand? What are they thinking?

I'll keep using their computers, and only their computers, because IMHO they are currently the best in town. But that doesn't mean it won't come with an unfair share of crap.

I'm sorry for the rant, I don't think it'll go down well in here, but I've been honest. Those are the reasons I'm walking on eggshells when it comes to Apple.
 

akash.nu

macrumors G3
May 26, 2016
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I'm sorry for the rant, I don't think it'll go down well in here, but I've been honest. Those are the reasons I'm walking on eggshells when it comes to Apple.
It sounds like either you’re unaware of how things work in the business world in general or grossly misinformed about Apple’s evilness.

Having said that, you do have all the rights to not buy anything from them so if that works better for you then more power to you.

Just remember businesses exist to make profit. That’s their main goal. They entice users to give them money in exchange of products and services. They aren’t charity and at the end of the day every business will do what’s best for their bottom line. Clearly Apple is playing it right in that sense being the most valuable company in the world.
 

throAU

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Feb 13, 2012
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And what's with all the "no repair" sabotage campaign? I bought a product that costs a small fortune, and I don't own it? Seriously? I have a tiny chip failure and "I'm sorry we'll have to get you an entirely new motherboard for only 999.99...". Come on! That is not right.
Not to be an apple apologist but this is a consequence of the security architecture.

If Apple's T2 chips, keys, etc. were available to third parties then third parties could make devices that could be used to hack your machine and steal your data, etc.

If you are under warranty/applecare then any failure is covered. If you aren't... well things fail, budget on 3 year replacements.

I wouldn't have the guts to sell premium-priced laptops with a keyboard that takes one week to know it doesn't belong in a high-end product. The famous overpriced dongles? Removing the audio jack on phones? The damn 1k monitor stand? What are they thinking?
Yeah the keyboard situation and the monitor stand are a joke.

The audio jack though? better used by battery space (or making the phone waterproof). The dongles aren't THAT over-priced and i'd rather have a generic port usable for whatever than a single purpose port that i never use...


Don't get me wrong, apple do a lot of dumb stuff, but on the flip-side i do also think they cop a lot of crap for stuff that is genuinely well intentioned. Apple like to push the industry forward and sometimes that causes some short term pain. See the ipad vs. ms surface for example. the ipad has a heap of great touch apps because they didn't support a mouse for a decade. The surface? It's still mostly desktop apps apart from a dumpster fire of app store trash - because developers can target the machine with their existing desktop apps and not bother to re-write. So it's a crap tablet. I mean even MS office is crap on an MS Surface - the ipad version of office is the best version for touch.

There wouldn't be the current massive influx of cheap wireless earbuds on the market today if they hadn't ditched the headphone port, and we'd all still be dealing with cables.

Cables suck.

In the near future, apple will release a phone with zero ports (wireless charging, no usb, nothing) and they will cop a heap of flak for it. But... cables suck. And getting away from them needs someone to push forward. Any android vendor will lose customers if they try it. Apple won't, they'll establish the benchmark and then the rest will follow.
 
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JFreak

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Jul 11, 2003
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My only regret with these new pieces of hit is that the T2 prevents changing system storage. Not a problem where SSD is soldered in, but the new overpriced towers that need to be taken to Apple Service to change system drive does not fit into my understanding.
 

ascender

macrumors 68040
Dec 8, 2005
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"Afraid" is a pretty strong choice of words and quite a bit of your post makes me think you've already made your mind-up. I'm in the camp that the T2 chip is more of a good thing than a negative and the 16" is a very good laptop. Catalina has stabilised a lot too, so I'm not sure I get the overall sentiment. Technology has always been like this to a degree and as others have said, some of the apps going end of life now have been supported for a very, very long time.

There are there options out there if you feel that strongly though.
 

nmaxcom

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 28, 2014
73
7
It sounds like either you’re unaware of how things work in the business world in general
It's not my main interest, but I've successfully sold a tech startup, and I've been running the other two companies (one in software dev and the other in very boring clinical research). While there's plenty for me to learn, I wouldn't say I'm unaware of the mechanics of businesses.

Just remember businesses exist to make profit
Sure, that's one thing they have, more or less, in common. That doesn't make them equal, not by a long shot.
Different companies are not equally greedy, equally involved in social matters, environmentally concerned, with the same corporate culture, and a thousand other variables that paint a very diverse business landscape.

If you think Apple overprices its products because "they exist to make a profit" you are mistaken.
 

akash.nu

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May 26, 2016
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It's not my main interest, but I've successfully sold a tech startup, and I've been running the other two companies (one in software dev and the other in very boring clinical research). While there's plenty for me to learn, I wouldn't say I'm unaware of the mechanics of businesses.



Sure, that's one thing they have, more or less, in common. That doesn't make them equal, not by a long shot.
Different companies are not equally greedy, equally involved in social matters, environmentally concerned, with the same corporate culture, and a thousand other variables that paint a very diverse business landscape.

If you think Apple overprices its products because "they exist to make a profit" you are mistaken.
With that in mind, which company is doing anything better in tech?!

I’m not trying to defend Apple or anything but the technical issues you’ve pointed out aren’t really issues anymore, if at all.

The moral issues you’re pointing out are generally the way things work in the industry now.

I fail to see why you’d single out one company over others.
 
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nmaxcom

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Original poster
Aug 28, 2014
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I finally bought the MBP for the reasons I gave before buying: my current MBP's keys were falling apart, and I could use a performance bump. I'll update OP for the sake of completeness and finishing the story, so to speak.

akash.nu said:
I'm not trying to defend Apple or anything but the technical issues you've pointed out aren't really issues anymore, if at all.
They are an issue, at least they are to me. The problem with the keys was ridiculous; it felt too much like programmed obsolescence. Now, my new MBP freezes from time to time when watching a video in fullscreen. So far, it happens in Chrome; in VLC it freezes like a second when scrubbing. It's also frozen, moving from desktop to desktop without any video anywhere. It was frozen as in really not moving: not the screen, mouse, etc. for up to 10s.

akash.nu said:
The moral issues you're pointing out are generally the way things work in the industry now.
I don't agree. Apple has been an ******* of a company for a long time. I don't want to research the topic and bring issues and dates; I think it's enough to be lobbying against the Right to Repair bill.

akash.nu said:
I fail to see why you'd single out one company over others.
I said before that Apple is not alone misbehaving, but I'd wager Apple wins the award. Plus, this is MacRumors.

It's not so much that this company screws up more than that company, it's the whole attitude on top of overpricing. Remember the entire antenna thing, "you are not holding it right" (2010)? That's what I mean.
 
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