Air - whats the point?

[Falhófnir]

Well, by that logic, the entire Apple laptop line is removed from consideration. Some are too old, the rest have a bad keyboard.

Ultimately, yeah I think that’s a perfectly reasonable conclusion. I wouldn’t recommend any Apple laptop currently to anyone who asked me. For myself knowing the risks I am still umm-ing and ahh-ing over a 15” pro which at almost £3,000 is a not inconsiderable investment.

 

[revmacian]

Ultimately, yeah I think that’s a perfectly reasonable conclusion. I wouldn’t recommend any Apple laptop currently to anyone who asked me. For myself knowing the risks I am still umm-ing and ahh-ing over a 15” pro which at almost £3,000 is a not inconsiderable investment.

If you're willing to consider a machine from Apple's refurbished store, you might even be able to get that machine at a considerable discount.

 

[Ma2k5]

If you're willing to consider a machine from Apple's refurbished store, you might even be able to get that machine at a considerable discount.

I thought it was 15% discount at best?

 

[revmacian]

I thought it was 15% discount at best?

I'm in the US and, I believe, you're in the UK, so there is a conversion there that I'm not familiar with. However, I am seeing some MBP's on the US refurbished site that are $300.00 USD savings. That's a lot of money for me. Worth a look for you?

 

[Ma2k5]

I'm in the US and, I believe, you're in the UK, so there is a conversion there that I'm not familiar with. However, I am seeing some MBP's on the US refurbished site that are $300.00 USD savings. That's a lot of money for me. Worth a look for you?

The reason I mention it I noticed you can get brand new machines for that level of discount if you buy outside of of Apple - so wonder how attractive those pricings really are.

 

[Mainsail]

If you think about the target market for the MBA, there is a lot that Apple got right. This is really an everyday consumer laptop for students, office workers, and home users. On the other hand, I would not buy this computer if I needed something for large scale professional video editing. I would consider this computer for someone that likes MacOS and wants a portable laptop for routine stuff: mail, messages, FaceTime, safari, Notes, iWork/Office, Photos, iMovie (simple videos), etc.. The $1,199 introductory price is higher than the prior MBA model, but that is almost always the case when Apple releases a new model.....the price will likely drift downward with time. That's exactly what happened with the older model, which had an introductory price of $1,299 in 2010. Again, if you are a typical consumer that keeps their computers for 5-6 years, the higher introductory price is not that big of a deal.

Here is a fair and balanced review after 30 days of use:

We need more time with the gen 3 butterfly keyboard to determine if it will be reliable on the new MBA......fingers crossed......but, it makes me nervous.

 

[Ma2k5]

If you think about the target market for the MBA, there is a lot that Apple got right. This is really an everyday consumer laptop for students, office workers, and home users. On the other hand, I would not buy this computer if I needed something for large scale professional video editing. I would consider this computer for someone that likes MacOS and wants a portable laptop for routine stuff: mail, messages, FaceTime, safari, Notes, iWork/Office, Photos, iMovie (simple videos), etc.. The $1,199 introductory price is higher than the prior MBA model, but that is almost always the case when Apple releases a new model.....the price will likely drift downward with time. That's exactly what happened with the older model, which had an introductory price of $1,299 in 2010. Again, if you are a typical consumer that keeps their computers for 5-6 years, the higher introductory price is not that big of a deal.

Here is a fair and balanced review after 30 days of use:

We need more time with the gen 3 butterfly keyboard to determine if it will be reliable on the new MBA......fingers crossed......but, it makes me nervous.

Back in 2010, was there anything remotely competitive with the Air? I ask because, I think having something which no one does usually commands a higher price. However, there are Windows ultrabooks which are smaller and have more power than the new Air and Apple's own lineup competes with the Air. The Air in 2008/10/12 were more ahead of their time which kind of justified the price, in comparison to the new Air, which is just a 13" version of the MacBook with TouchID (albeit, with a worse screen ).

 

[Mainsail]

Back in 2010, was there anything remotely competitive with the Air? I ask because, I think having something which no one does usually commands a higher price. However, there are Windows ultrabooks which are smaller and have more power than the new Air and Apple's own lineup competes with the Air. The Air in 2008/10/12 were more ahead of their time which kind of justified the price, in comparison to the new Air, which is just a 13" version of the MacBook with TouchID (albeit, with a worse screen ).

I think you are right that the MBA really did help define a category of laptop, and the new MBA is really more of an evolution in design. In 2010, there were other ultra portables, but the older MBA got a lot of things right in this class of computers. That said, Apple made improvements to the older MBA during its run while also lowering the price:

• Numerous Processor and GPU updates
• RAM on base model from 2GB to 8GB
• Battery Life improved from 7 hours to 12 Hours
• Added Backlit Keyboard
• Replaced Mini Display Port with Thunderbolt 2
• Entry price dropped from $1299 to $999

So, the 2010 was not a perfect computer by any stretch. In fact, many people on this forum blasted the 2010 MBA upon release for exactly the same reasons they are blasting the current model: under spec processor, too expensive, just a netbook, not enough ports, not enough storage, crappy screen......on and on. The spec police kind of got it wrong on that one, and it became Apple's most popular laptop....wildly successful. Why did they get it so wrong? Probably because the everyday consumer is less concerned about specs and more concerned about overall user experience. They will pay a little more for MacOS over Windows. They like the tight seamless integration with their iPhone. They don't push the computer very hard, so many of the spec differences are kind of invisible to them.

 

[Ma2k5]

I think you are right that the MBA really did help define a category of laptop, and the new MBA is really more of an evolution in design. In 2010, there were other ultra portables, but the older MBA got a lot of things right in this class of computers. That said, Apple made improvements to the older MBA during its run while also lowering the price:

• Numerous Processor and GPU updates
• RAM on base model from 2GB to 8GB
• Battery Life improved from 7 hours to 12 Hours
• Added Backlit Keyboard
• Replaced Mini Display Port with Thunderbolt 2
• Entry price dropped from $1299 to $999

So, the 2010 was not a perfect computer by any stretch. In fact, many people on this forum blasted the 2010 MBA upon release for exactly the same reasons they are blasting the current model: under spec processor, too expensive, just a netbook, not enough ports, not enough storage, crappy screen......on and on. The spec police kind of got it wrong on that one, and it became Apple's most popular laptop....wildly successful. Why did they get it so wrong? Probably because the everyday consumer is less concerned about specs and more concerned about overall user experience. They will pay a little more for MacOS over Windows. They like the tight seamless integration with their iPhone. They don't push the computer very hard, so many of the spec differences are kind of invisible to them.

I thought it had a leading screen back then? Weren’t Apple first to prioritise good quality screens.

Also, what CPU where the competition using in the same form factor? One of the reason the new Air gets criticised for the low power CPU is because there are laptops with smaller chassis with quad core 15W CPU’s.

I mean lack of ports and underspec CPU is nothing unusual, however what I did find unusual was downgrading on the 12” screen.

 

[Mainsail]

I thought it had a leading screen back then? Weren’t Apple first to prioritise good quality screens.

Also, what CPU where the competition using in the same form factor? One of the reason the new Air gets criticised for the low power CPU is because there are laptops with smaller chassis with quad core 15W CPU’s.

I mean lack of ports and underspec CPU is nothing unusual, however what I did find unusual was downgrading on the 12” screen.

I consider myself a pretty typical user and kind of the target customer for the new MBA....I.e. a current owner of an older MBA. The new screen will be a big step up. The processor will be plenty fast. I rarely get the fan going on my 2014 MBA with 4 gb RAM. I will make these trade offs for good battery life.

You and I have gone around on this before, and I respect your point of view. I suspect we have somewhat different user requirements: I am a regular consumer - mail, web, notes, iWork, Office, Photos, simple iMovies ( glorified slide shows). I suspect you may be more of “prosumer”, so logically you will be more sensitive to specs. Truth is, specs rarely limit what I want to do: so, I am more focused on my total user experience over a 5-6 year period.

In a year or so, I will probably update to a new MBA. If I am as satisfied as I have been with my older one, then I will be a happy camper.

 

[Ma2k5]

I consider myself a pretty typical user and kind of the target customer for the new MBA....I.e. a current owner of an older MBA. The new screen will be a big step up. The processor will be plenty fast. I rarely get the fan going on my 2014 MBA with 4 gb RAM. I will make these trade offs for good battery life.

You and I have gone around on this before, and I respect your point of view. I suspect we have somewhat different user requirements: I am a regular consumer - mail, web, notes, iWork, Office, Photos, simple iMovies ( glorified slide shows). I suspect you may be more of “prosumer”, so logically you will be more sensitive to specs. Truth is, specs rarely limit what I want to do: so, I am more focused on my total user experience over a 5-6 year period.

In a year or so, I will probably update to a new MBA. If I am as satisfied as I have been with my older one, then I will be a happy camper.

I wouldn’t say I am spec orientated but rather look at value proposition. Most of these offerings are perfectly usable for me in terms of user requirements - eg the screen being dimmer and the colours being washed out doesn’t affect my personal use of the new Air (I’m not a video editor nor use it in bright rooms) but it will for others. Lack of ports again doesn’t really affect me too much but it probably does to many others - Dell and other manufacturers I’ve seen have included a dock which they didn’t have to (which could have been something Apple could have looked at).

My comments are my analysis of the product rather than how the product fits my needs if that makes sense? I do comparative analysis to other products on form factor/price and I don’t try impose my use case - as everyone has different requirements. So I see where it does well and where not as well. It’s more of a discussion point of what people think Apple did right/wrong.

I think people miss the point when they reply “Product works for me. If it doesn’t for you, don’t buy it”. The reality is, I look at what could have made it also workable for others - what’s the cost and compromises involved in it, are the competition or other Apple products doing it already etc. That’s the real discussion point. The Air also works for me as a product functionally, but I wouldn’t call it value for money.

 

[Lioness~]

After a bit more then a month usage, the only thing that I can complain on is that I wish it was a bit lighter in weight. Not that it bothers me a lot, but that’s the only thing that I can think of that isn’t great.
Not that a MBP was even on any agenda I had before purchase. But if the guy in that video above noticed the weight difference, it would be WAY too much for me.

Well I miss the MagSafe contact too. Hope I don’t trip on any cords...
Otherwise it’s a wonderful and beautiful laptop that do everything I want it to.

 

[Mainsail]

I wouldn’t say I am spec orientated but rather look at value proposition. Most of these offerings are perfectly usable for me in terms of user requirements - eg the screen being dimmer and the colours being washed out doesn’t affect my personal use of the new Air (I’m not a video editor nor use it in bright rooms) but it will for others. Lack of ports again doesn’t really affect me too much but it probably does to many others - Dell and other manufacturers I’ve seen have included a dock which they didn’t have to (which could have been something Apple could have looked at).

My comments are my analysis of the product rather than how the product fits my needs if that makes sense? I do comparative analysis to other products on form factor/price and I don’t try impose my use case - as everyone has different requirements. So I see where it does well and where not as well. It’s more of a discussion point of what people think Apple did right/wrong.

I think people miss the point when they reply “Product works for me. If it doesn’t for you, don’t buy it”. The reality is, I look at what could have made it also workable for others - what’s the cost and compromises involved in it, are the competition or other Apple products doing it already etc. That’s the real discussion point. The Air also works for me as a product functionally, but I wouldn’t call it value for money.

You make some good points. Let's just agree that there are trade-offs that each manufacture makes in their offerings, and it seems like the Air does not make the right set of trade-offs for your needs. Apple made compromises along the way. I can live with these compromises and still be very satisfied with my purchase. You might feel they don't represent a good value. Fair enough.

I have no reason to believe that the profit margin on the new Air is any different than Apple's other laptops, and I suspect Apple tried to optimize this computer for a target customer given target profit margins. They had to work backwards from a price point and margin percentage to a design and bill of materials. Maybe you would have done things differently, but you can't just say they should have added this feature or that spec without regard to cost or price trade-offs. Now, you might feel that Apple "tax" is too high. Fair enough. Then, don't buy from Apple. This is not intended to be snarky. Apple just might not be a good value for you.

Perhaps, you have come to this conclusion by looking at other laptops on the market with better specs at a lower price. Ok. But, that is nothing new with respect to Apple. Other manufactures operate on razor thin margins....they compete in a Windows market with lots of competitors. This is just not Apple's business model. Apple operates with higher margins in a closed highly integrated system of devices. Some people hate this system, and they should not buy from Apple. It would just be too frustrating.

I am not saying Apple is above criticism. I think they have made numerous mistakes along the way. For example, too much emphasis on form factor and thinness at the expense of functionality. The butterfly keyboard mechanism makes me nervous. I am saying you have to evaluate the new MBA in the context of its target market and Apple's overall pricing strategy (including margin percentage). There may be better values if you are willing to leave the Apple ecosystem....if so, then go for it. That is not a criticism.....just logical consumer behavior.

 

[geejay9876]

So, the 2010 was not a perfect computer by any stretch. In fact, many people on this forum blasted the 2010 MBA upon release for exactly the same reasons they are blasting the current model: under spec processor, too expensive, just a netbook, not enough ports, not enough storage, crappy screen......on and on. The spec police kind of got it wrong on that one, and it became Apple's most popular laptop....wildly successful. Why did they get it so wrong? Probably because the everyday consumer is less concerned about specs and more concerned about overall user experience. They will pay a little more for MacOS over Windows. They like the tight seamless integration with their iPhone. They don't push the computer very hard, so many of the spec differences are kind of invisible to them.

The beauty of the Macbook Air was a full screen with a low weight and iconic design. Back in 2008/2010 the Macbook Air was much lighter than the Macbook Pro. So everyone who wanted a simple notebook went for the Air. However with the third generation of the MBP you got the same size screen with better resolution and almost the same weight like the MBA. With the MBA 2018 the difference between Air and the Pro became even smaller.

In my opinion they made a major blunder. They should have kept the old AIR size and fitted a bigger screen without bezel, to emphasize comfort in a light-weight package, as Air user want to maximize comfort and not speed.

As it stands now, the MBA 2018 is just an inferior nTB MBP.

 

[S.B.G]

As it stands now, the MBA 2018 is just an inferior nTB MBP.

Perhaps to you it is, and that's fine. It's a matter of personal opinion.

On the other hand, I'm very pleased and happy with the new MBA. This is coming from a 2012 15" cMBP which I also liked. But I like this new one much better.

 

[Falhófnir]

If you're willing to consider a machine from Apple's refurbished store, you might even be able to get that machine at a considerable discount.

I wouldn't consider a second hand machine at these sort of prices, no matter how thoroughly 'refurbished'. The savings aren't significant enough that I would be able to accept, for example an SSD that could well already have some wear from being wiped and reformatted. Doesn't seem worth it to me, but some retailers offer £1-200 off new machines occasionally which I might take advantage of if I end up sticking with Macs.

The $1,199 introductory price is higher than the prior MBA model, but that is almost always the case when Apple releases a new model.....the price will likely drift downward with time.

That has proved not to be the case with the 12" MacBook and 2016- Pros. The price has gone up and not come down as was the case with prior generations of machine. With the 15" pro models, the 2016 started at $2,399 (up from $1,999) and when the $1,999 2015 model was killed off in June the entry price simply went up. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same happen when the 2015 Air goes - $999 machines become a thing of the past and the price of admission for Mac notebooks goes up to $1,199.

 

[revmacian]

I wouldn't consider a second hand machine at these sort of prices, no matter how thoroughly 'refurbished'. The savings aren't significant enough that I would be able to accept, for example an SSD that could well already have some wear from being wiped and reformatted. Doesn't seem worth it to me, but some retailers offer £1-200 off new machines occasionally which I might take advantage of if I end up sticking with Macs.

Hmm.. you make a very good point, I hadn't thought about SSD cell exhaustion.

 

[Mainsail]

That has proved not to be the case with the 12" MacBook and 2016- Pros. The price has gone up and not come down as was the case with prior generations of machine. With the 15" pro models, the 2016 started at $2,399 (up from $1,999) and when the $1,999 2015 model was killed off in June the entry price simply went up. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same happen when the 2015 Air goes - $999 machines become a thing of the past and the price of admission for Mac notebooks goes up to $1,199.

Well, the introductory price for the 2016 MBP was $1,499 with 256GB storage. It is now at $1,299 with 128GB storage. So, there is a lower price offering with less storage......but, I get your point.

We will just have to see how it goes with the MBA and the rMB. I could definitely see Apple offering the rMB at $1,099 with 128GB storage. Then, there would be 12 inch and 13 inch offerings that made more sense, which would be a similar to 11in and 13in MBA of a few years back. Those two sizes of MBAs worked for a lot of consumers. Time will tell.

 

[Ghost31]

The way Apple has been going with pricing lately mean only one thing in my view.....

The next refresh of Macbook Pro will drop the NTB version and mean that the only entry point for MBP will be the TB version (at the high price)

the Air will then become the "entry point" to a 13" device

13" Macbook Air $1199
13" Macbook Pro (TB) $1799
15" Macbook Pro (TB) $2399

Right now there's a serious question for people to consider....13" Air vs NTB MBP....Apple will want to remove this choice and drive those who want a MBP to the expensive version as right now the NTB MBP is eating into Air sales

No doubt the people at apple heard people say "well why buy the air? For only a hundred or so bucks more I could get the non Touch Bar pro"? apples response: Haha we'll see about that.

No doubt in my mind they'll drop the non Touch Bar pro and the lineup will be a bit cleaner. I remember when that pro came out and apple said something to the effect of it replacing the air. Thats when people thought "ok. Well I guess the air is dead then". Then surprisingly the air came back with a vengeance and here we are with a confused product line.

So yeah. $1200 seems steep (even though the original air was $1800, but I digress) but when you compare it to the next step up which will be the $1600 pro, it seems like a value.

 

[KPOM]

The Air I get just fine..... what I don't get is the base MacBook.

They should just have the Air and the Pro....

The base MacBook is much lighter and not much slower than the Air. The Air is only slightly lighter than the base Pro and much slower.
[doublepost=1545924579][/doublepost]

After a bit more then a month usage, the only thing that I can complain on is that I wish it was a bit lighter in weight. Not that it bothers me a lot, but that’s the only thing that I can think of that isn’t great.
Not that a MBP was even on any agenda I had before purchase. But if the guy in that video above noticed the weight difference, it would be WAY too much for me.

Well I miss the MagSafe contact too. Hope I don’t trip on any cords...
Otherwise it’s a wonderful and beautiful laptop that do everything I want it to.

I’m surprised they didn’t make it lighter. Many 13” Windows notebooks manage to be 2.75lbs even including a touchscreen, which adds about .25lbs. At 2.5lbs the Air would be much more compelling.

 

[Loge]

The base MacBook is much lighter and not much slower than the Air. The Air is only slightly lighter than the base Pro and much slower.

People aren't likely to prefer to Air to the 12 inch MacBook because of the speed; it will more likely to do with significantly more screen real estate - in the more space mode, the Air has 36% more space than the 12 inch MacBook. That and the extra port is significant for some people.

 

[Wags]

No doubt the people at apple heard people say "well why buy the air? For only a hundred or so bucks more I could get the non Touch Bar pro"? apples response: Haha we'll see about that.

No doubt in my mind they'll drop the non Touch Bar pro and the lineup will be a bit cleaner. I remember when that pro came out and apple said something to the effect of it replacing the air. Thats when people thought "ok. Well I guess the air is dead then". Then surprisingly the air came back with a vengeance and here we are with a confused product line.

So yeah. $1200 seems steep (even though the original air was $1800, but I digress) but when you compare it to the next step up which will be the $1600 pro, it seems like a value.

Can’t believe still have ntb. Seems Apple was afraid to go all in on the air at launch and wanted safety net.

 

[KPOM]

People aren't likely to prefer to Air to the 12 inch MacBook because of the speed; it will more likely to do with significantly more screen real estate - in the more space mode, the Air has 36% more space than the 12 inch MacBook. That and the extra port is significant for some people.

The 13.3” screen is about 23% larger than the screen in the 12” MacBook. There is a “More Space” mode for the 12” MacBook, too. In any case, the Air also weighs 38% more than the MacBook and only 8% less than the 13.3” nTB Pro.

 

[Loge]

The 13.3” screen is about 23% larger than the screen in the 12” MacBook. There is a “More Space” mode for the 12” MacBook, too. In any case, the Air also weighs 38% more than the MacBook and only 8% less than the 13.3” nTB Pro.

I was comparing the more space modes; you get 36% more space with the Air (but with slightly smaller UI elements). Depends what you do, but I find 1680x1050 much more usable than 1440x900.

 

[lambertjohn]

You mean the MacBook Pro 2017, with the problematic keyboard? How much in time and money will you end up spending having to take the laptop in to replace the keyboard a year or two from now? Will they repair the keyboard the same day, or will you have to leave the laptop with them for a week?

Second-generation butterfly keyboard devices aren't even an option, IMHO.

My wife has the 2016 nTB MacBook Pro with the first "problematic" keyboard, and she's had absolutely zero problems with it. I'm just saying, not everyone has had issues with their 2016/17 keyboards. There are a lot of folks out there pounding away happily on their "unproblematic" 2017/16 MBP's!