Airplay doesn't work on the same network?

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by bigpoppamac31, Aug 27, 2016.

  1. bigpoppamac31 macrumors 68000

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    #1
    So I have a dual band Airport Extreme (simultaneous). My Mac is on the 5Ghz band and my ATV is on the 2.4Ghz band. When I put my ATV on the 5Ghz band the Airplay button in iTunes disappears. Go back to 2.4Ghz on my ATV and the button returns. I thought putting them both on the same band would mean a stronger signal as Airplay cuts out a lot and stutters. Sometimes it works fine but often times it doesn't and it's very frustrating. Any ideas? I really think the days of Apple products that "Just work" are over. I'm really not sure that a fully wireless world is the way to go. Wired connections will always trump wireless. It's tried, tested, and true.
     
  2. cruisin macrumors 6502a

    cruisin

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    #2
    Keeping everything in auto settings will generally use the best settings. Putting two devices in the same band will not improve things because the signal is now shared, but things should still work with just the two devices.

    Any reason why you are forcing 5 GHz? I ask because 5 GHz is faster but it has less range. So if there is a bit of distance to the Extreme with a few walls, obstructions, etc. then 5 GHz might be too blocked to get a good signal. The ATV might have a bad signal and therefore not have the needed speed for streaming and thus blocking Airplay. Does it work with 2.4 GHz?
     
  3. bigpoppamac31, Aug 27, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2016

    bigpoppamac31 thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #3
    Airplay does "work" with the 2.4Ghz band. My Mac is on the 5Ghz band either way. Maybe it's just the design on the apartment I'm in but 2.4Ghz is not fast enough. I say Airplay "works" cause I often get choppiness and stuttering. I'm more curious as to why the Airplay button at the top of iTunes disappears when both my Mac and ATV are on the same network?

    Below is my apartment layout. I'm in the top corner bedroom where my Mac and home theatre (including ATV) reside. The Airport Extreme and Rogers modem is in the living room where the cable connection is located.

    1457726785_three_bed.jpg
     
  4. cruisin macrumors 6502a

    cruisin

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    #4
    Since this an apartment, you could have interference from everyone around you having their own wireless devices. If you take your Mac and do a speed test (www.speedtest.net or www.dslreports.com/speedtest or similar) on both 5 and 2.4 GHz from the location of the ATV, do you get at least 5 Mbps?

    Your Mac has Wireless Diagnostics (⌘ + Space and then type Wireless Diagnostics to launch) that can test your Wi-Fi connection.
    • Scan (Window -> Scan or ⌘4) shows the least congested channel, so run it from the bedroom to see if you can improve the channels used on the Extreme.
    • Monitor (Window -> Monitor or ⌘7) shows a live connection speed in Mbps as you move the Mac around. If the connection speed drops sharply, it might be interference.

    They are on the same network, but the ATV is having network issues at 5 GHz and is dropping the connection. iTunes removes the airplay button when it cannot see any devices. 2.4 GHz has less issues because it has better range, even though it is not perfect, so the button stays available.
     
  5. bigpoppamac31 thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #5

    Here is my speed test results.

    At my desk which on the south wall of the bedroom in the floor plan.

    5Ghz
    5Ghz at desk.png

    2.4Ghz
    2.4Ghz at desk.png

    Beside ATV on the same wall as the door.

    5Ghz
    5Ghz beside ATV.png

    2.4Ghz
    2.4Ghz beside ATV.png


    Also doing the monitor test going from my desk to the ATV there is a sharp drop in connection. So maybe there is some interference. Thing is that the wall outlets are only located on the walls where the desk and TV are located. The outside wall with the window has a big baseboard heater running end to end. The north wall has nothing but I'd rather not put any electronics on that wall cause early this spring there was a water leakage along the baseboard of that wall.
     
  6. lvavila macrumors member

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    #6
    Apple, even though I don't know how networks work, you should just work! Why oh why don't you just work?
     
  7. bigpoppamac31 thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #7
    I sense sarcasm in your unhelpful post.
     
  8. cruisin macrumors 6502a

    cruisin

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    #8
    Wi-Fi-01.png
    Assuming I understood your apartment layout correctly, the ATV needs to get a signal that goes through a room and a bathroom, both which have many things that can block the signal while the desk with the Mac only has a door. If the tub in the bathroom is steel, the problem is even worse. The North wall might be better, but not by much.

    If you just move the ATV to the desk and try to watch something on the TV, does the signal improve? If it does, then you either need to run a cable from the Extreme, move the ATV until the signal improves, or buy a Wi-Fi extender that comes with a ethernet jack so you can run a cable from your desk to the ATV (something like this: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122674).
     
  9. bigpoppamac31 thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #9
    My Rogers modem (wifi turned off) and Airport Extreme are located in the living room by the wall dividing it and the bedroom next to it. I don't think I have an HDMI cable long enough to move my ATV to the desk. Either way I don't want another wire crossing the doorway. I already have surround speaker cable crossing the doorway. I've thought about a wifi extender. Would the Airport Express do well with that?
     
  10. cynics macrumors G4

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    #10
    Have you tried an SMC reset on the Mac and reseting the ATV (hold Menu + Play/Pause buttons until the LED rapidly flashes) after forcing the ATV to use 5ghz? Can you AirPlay other devices when the ATV is using 5ghz?

    I don't typically have a problem with AirPlay in any config although I mostly use ethernet since my ATV is right next to my AirPort Extreme. However when I do have problems it manifest itself in very very strange ways. Like one device will stop being able to AirPlay or one device can't see the ATV while others can, etc etc.

    For a test I currently have my ATV on 5ghz wifi, iMac on 5ghz wifi and AirPlay mirroring to my TV, type this post out actually so it definitely works or at least should.
     
  11. bigpoppamac31 thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #11
    So could I use an Airport Express as a range extender or as an Airplay only device??
     
  12. cruisin macrumors 6502a

    cruisin

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    #12
    I meant to temporarily move the ATV to test out the different signal and then move it back.

    The Express should work to extend. Apple has an article about extending Wi-Fi: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202056
     
  13. bigpoppamac31 thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #13
    Like I mentioned I don't have long enough hdmi cables. I only have 3 feet hdmi cables.

    What about the Airport Express as an Airplay only device?? I can just plug it in next to my AVR and connect it via an optical audio cable and stream my music within the same room right? It seems like to use it as an extender it's best to connect the Express to the Extreme via ethernet. I'd rather not run wires all over the apartment.
     
  14. cruisin macrumors 6502a

    cruisin

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    #14
    You can extend a WiFi network wirelessly without using a cable.

    Making a second network just for airplay should work, but you might need to tweak the settings on the Mac because it will have two separate networks connected at the same time. It might get confused as to which one to use for internet and which one for airplay (unless Apple took that into account).

    I know that you can have multiple wired networks, and a wired and wireless network, but I'm not sure if you can use two wireless networks at the same time. Whenever I connect to a different wireless network it seems to disconnect from the previous one for me. You might need a USB WiFi card.
     
  15. bigpoppamac31 thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #15
    Well I don't think it would be two separate networks. The Airport Express can "join existing networks". I just want to know if the audio will feed only to the Airport Express in the same room without going through the Airport Extreme in the other room.
     
  16. cruisin macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    I believe it will still go through the Extreme, as it is the router in the network and the Express is the extension. This is why I was thinking of two networks, to skip the Extreme.
     
  17. bigpoppamac31 thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #17
    Well in the WiFi menu would I not be selecting the Express instead of the Extreme?
     
  18. cruisin, Aug 29, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016

    cruisin macrumors 6502a

    cruisin

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    #18
    Thinking about it a bit more, if you put a different subnet address on the Express you can have nested routers. You will have a double NAT so certain things like Skype could have issues, but in theory you should get a direct convention to the ATV. I never used a double NAT so I'm not sure what the drawbacks are.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 29, 2016 ---
    No, a extension is invisible. It is like a "wireless cable", there is nothing to select.

    Places like offices have one WiFi network but multiple access points spread out. They are connected by cable to the main router for better performance, but you don't select a specific access point.
     
  19. bigpoppamac31 thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #19
    So then how would I use it for Airplay?? I thought Apple products were supposed to be simple and easy to use.

    This is kinda what I have in mind. https://turbofuture.com/home-theate...o-Turn-Your-Speakers-Into-an-AirPlay-Receiver
     
  20. cruisin macrumors 6502a

    cruisin

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    #20
    It will work for airplay.

    It's not about being easy to use, your location is causing interference.
     
  21. bigpoppamac31 thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #21
    I'll probably get an Airport Express and see how that goes.
     
  22. d21mike macrumors 68040

    d21mike

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    #22
    I think you are making matters worse. But I could be wrong. I prefer not using WiFi extenders. If I were to create another access point I would run a Ethernet Cable from the Main Router to the second Router (Access Point). Also, I do not believe the Express has support for AC if that is what you want to use. So I would spend more money and get a second Extreme if you really feel you need a second WiFi Access Point.
     
  23. bigpoppamac31 thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #23
    Well my Extreme now does not now have 802.11ac so it wouldn't matter. It's 802.11n though. My thought it to get an Express and use the audio out to audio in on the AVR. I may just get rid of the ATV anyways.
     

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