Airplay Networks

Ecossebear

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 13, 2014
5
0
Network

Hey everyone. New to this forum and was hoping for some advice!

I am looking to set up a network in my house that allows for both fast wireless internet access and multi room Air Play.

The equipment I have:
1 Virgin media superhub - 2.4 or 5ghz bands (but NOT duel).
1 new apple time machine
4 off apple express.

The rooms are across the house and do not have option of Ethernet connection between the rooms.

The hub is based in my lounge and one of the rooms is far enough away that I do not have great signal.

The question i ask is what is the best way to set up each device (client/extending/mixture of both?). Do I disable the wireless facility of my hub and just use it as a router? I'm not too savy with networks so any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated!
 

Menel

macrumors 603
Aug 4, 2011
6,199
1,050
Find a way to put your Virgin Media hub into DMZ mode, or bridge mode, where it assigns external IP to your Time Machine. May take some googling, some are tricky.

Use your Time machine has main router, assigning dhcp, NAT, wireless.

Attach airport expresses thta you need to repeat and extend your network as 'extend', as necessary.

Attach others AE's as just 'join'
 

marzer

macrumors 65816
Nov 14, 2009
1,329
44
Colorado
Network

Hey everyone. New to this forum and was hoping for some advice!

I am looking to set up a network in my house that allows for both fast wireless internet access and multi room Air Play.

The equipment I have:
1 Virgin media superhub - 2.4 or 5ghz bands (but NOT duel).
1 new apple time machine
4 off apple express.

The rooms are across the house and do not have option of Ethernet connection between the rooms.

The hub is based in my lounge and one of the rooms is far enough away that I do not have great signal.

The question i ask is what is the best way to set up each device (client/extending/mixture of both?). Do I disable the wireless facility of my hub and just use it as a router? I'm not too savy with networks so any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated!
First off, just a quick correction, your talking about a "Time Capsule" not "Time Machine."

I would recommend leaving the Virgin super hub in router config providing the NAT firewall as well as DNS and DHCP services. Though arguable, I don't like the fact that Airport devices, like the Time Capsule, cannot be set to operate in Stealth mode and therefore respond to simple ICMP scans.

Then I'd disable the wirelesss on the super hub, assuming the Time Capsule connects to the super hub via ethernet cable. Next, I'd set the Time Capsule to bridge mode allowing it to manage the wireless clients using a simultaneous band configuration (2.4 and 5 GHz). Finally, assuming the Expresses are being used for streaming only, connect them to the network as clients ("Join a wireless network."). Setting them to connect via wireless through the Time Capsule.

If there's any areas of the home where wireless signal is very weak and contains an Express, I'd consider using the express as a repeater set to Extend mode in an attempt to improve coverage. But that'd be a worst case scenario as the total bandwidth is reduced to facilitate the extension.
 

Ecossebear

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 13, 2014
5
0
First off, just a quick correction, your talking about a "Time Capsule" not "Time Machine."

I would recommend leaving the Virgin super hub in router config providing the NAT firewall as well as DNS and DHCP services. Though arguable, I don't like the fact that Airport devices, like the Time Capsule, cannot be set to operate in Stealth mode and therefore respond to simple ICMP scans.

Then I'd disable the wirelesss on the super hub, assuming the Time Capsule connects to the super hub via ethernet cable. Next, I'd set the Time Capsule to bridge mode allowing it to manage the wireless clients using a simultaneous band configuration (2.4 and 5 GHz). Finally, assuming the Expresses are being used for streaming only, connect them to the network as clients ("Join a wireless network."). Setting them to connect via wireless through the Time Capsule.

If there's any areas of the home where wireless signal is very weak and contains an Express, I'd consider using the express as a repeater set to Extend mode in an attempt to improve coverage. But that'd be a worst case scenario as the total bandwidth is reduced to facilitate the extension.
Thanks for the responses!

One option I had considered was setting up two networks - one for internet etc, and the other solely for Airplay. Would this work and if so would it be effective? Ie could I have the virgin media wifi setup as music only and connect the expresses to that, and then keep time capsule for everything else?
 

marzer

macrumors 65816
Nov 14, 2009
1,329
44
Colorado
Thanks for the responses!

One option I had considered was setting up two networks - one for internet etc, and the other solely for Airplay. Would this work and if so would it be effective? Ie could I have the virgin media wifi setup as music only and connect the expresses to that, and then keep time capsule for everything else?
You could but it doesn't gain you much other than the added complexity of managing two wireless networks. Unless you just enjoy that sorta thing :D

Unlike video, streaming even high quality audio-only requires little bandwidth with respect to modern routers operating on simultaneous freqs and upwards of 1300Mbps+ data rates. I have two AEX's, 4 Apple TV's, 5 iOS devices and 5 Macs all routing through an Airport Extreme. At times multiple clients are operating at the same time streaming video/audio media either from the internet, home server or both. Have yet to notice any degradation with it all running over the same wireless router.
 

Ecossebear

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 13, 2014
5
0
You could but it doesn't gain you much other than the added complexity of managing two wireless networks. Unless you just enjoy that sorta thing :D

Unlike video, streaming even high quality audio-only requires little bandwidth with respect to modern routers operating on simultaneous freqs and upwards of 1300Mbps+ data rates. I have two AEX's, 4 Apple TV's, 5 iOS devices and 5 Macs all routing through an Airport Extreme. At times multiple clients are operating at the same time streaming video/audio media either from the internet, home server or both. Have yet to notice any degradation with it all running over the same wireless router.
I wasn't sure if separate networks would allow one to remain interference free or not. So in your opinion:
Room 1: Virgin media router wifi disabled, ethernet connection to Time Machine which will 'create new network' on both 2.4 and 5ghz?
Room 2: Apple express connected as 'join network'.
Room 3: Apple express connected as 'join network'.
Room 4: Apple express connected as 'extend network' (as this room is further from the rest of the house!).

And that way I can have audio without drop offs or continual pauses?
 

UKgaryb

macrumors regular
Dec 13, 2013
146
56
Manchester, UK
Virgin "super hub" is horrible, put the thing in Modem only mode, plug in time capsule and make it the router, then set the airport expresses in WDS mode.
 

marzer

macrumors 65816
Nov 14, 2009
1,329
44
Colorado
I wasn't sure if separate networks would allow one to remain interference free or not. So in your opinion:
Room 1: Virgin media router wifi disabled, ethernet connection to Time Machine which will 'create new network' on both 2.4 and 5ghz?
Room 2: Apple express connected as 'join network'.
Room 3: Apple express connected as 'join network'.
Room 4: Apple express connected as 'extend network' (as this room is further from the rest of the house!).

And that way I can have audio without drop offs or continual pauses?
As long as you get decent reception throughout the house. One thing to consider when setting one of the AEX's to extend the network is its location between the router and farthest location in the house. Example, if room 3 is between room 1 and room 4, and gets good reception from the Time Capsule, you can set room 3 AEX to extend the network letting it "boost" to the farther room in the house. Room 4's AEX can connect through it for improved throughput in that room.
 

Ecossebear

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 13, 2014
5
0
As long as you get decent reception throughout the house. One thing to consider when setting one of the AEX's to extend the network is its location between the router and farthest location in the house. Example, if room 3 is between room 1 and room 4, and gets good reception from the Time Capsule, you can set room 3 AEX to extend the network letting it "boost" to the farther room in the house. Room 4's AEX can connect through it for improved throughput in that room.
I can't understand it! I have the brand new time capsule from 2013 that was supposed to be the best apple device yet, but I find my Virgin SH to be quicker for videos etc. Is there something in the settings I am getting wrong here?

Also, by joining a network does it reduce the bandwidth, or is that just extending?
 

Ecossebear

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 13, 2014
5
0
For instance I have settings as follows on my Time Capsule.

INTERNET
Connect Using DHCP
Configure IPv6 Automatically
IPv6 Mode Natie
Enable IPv6 Connection Sharing

WIRELESS
Create a Wireless Network
WPA2 Personal
No Guest Network
No separate 5GHz network name
Both channels automatic

NETWORK
Router mode Off (bridge mode) --- this is one I'm not sure off!
Block incoming IPv6 Connections
Allow incoming IPSec authentication.


Is there anything I have wrong above?
 

marzer

macrumors 65816
Nov 14, 2009
1,329
44
Colorado
For instance I have settings as follows on my Time Capsule.

INTERNET
Connect Using DHCP
Configure IPv6 Automatically
IPv6 Mode Natie
Enable IPv6 Connection Sharing

WIRELESS
Create a Wireless Network
WPA2 Personal
No Guest Network
No separate 5GHz network name
Both channels automatic

NETWORK
Router mode Off (bridge mode) --- this is one I'm not sure off!
Block incoming IPv6 Connections
Allow incoming IPSec authentication.


Is there anything I have wrong above?
Not sure the problem. Are you saying you are experiencing a failure of some sort or just streaming seems slower over the Time Capsule than the super hub?

Yes, bridge mode on the Time Capsule permits it to create a wireless network but the super hub gets to handle internet firewall, dns, dhcp, etc. to the local network. I'm not familiar with IPv6 settings. In my location, US, that protocol is not implemented by my ISP, my internet connection and my local network use only IPv4. So I leave the IPv6 settings at whatever the default is from the factory.
 

Altemose

macrumors G3
Mar 26, 2013
9,089
444
Elkton, Maryland
I can't understand it! I have the brand new time capsule from 2013 that was supposed to be the best apple device yet, but I find my Virgin SH to be quicker for videos etc. Is there something in the settings I am getting wrong here?

Also, by joining a network does it reduce the bandwidth, or is that just extending?
The plan is fine. Just remember to connect the cable from the LAN port on the Virgin to the WAN port on the Extreme.

Now take the newest Express and carry your computer across your home to where you start to see the S/N Ratio go to about 25-30. Plug the Express in there.

If you do not own a portable Mac, but have an iPad or iPhone, then setup the TC and download AirPort Utility. Walk towards the room with the poor signal, and when you see when it drops to two bars on the iOS device, fire up AirPort Utility. The connection should say Average or "Good". You want your Express to never say Poor. Preferably where it says Good, plug in the Express and set it to extend.

A rule here is to put good signal in, put good signal out. Some people place the extenders in the room lacking the signal and all that does is have the extending Express gasping for signal. If you didn't understand my directions, I can clarify if needed.

Also note an extending Express can not be connected to an extending Express. Client Expresses can. Essentially so if you have TC ----> Express (Extending), you can have another Express extend the other way from the TC but not from the extending Express. If set to join, the Expresses can be connected to either one.