Airport home network

[paranoid1123]

I have three AirPort Extremes and a airport express for my network at my house and all work great and would like to keep them except one part of my house I need faster Wi-Fi speed. I was wondering what router I can add to my network that will work with my airports and not be a pain in the @$$ to configure any ideas will be helpful

 

[techwarrior]

The express is wirelessly connecting to the network. This results in WiFi bandwidth being split between the Express uplink to the network and clients. It tends to slow all wireless connections.

First thing I would consider is hardwire connecting the express.

Then, look at your placement of the devices, you may be able to improve things by moving Airports around a bit to fill gaps.

Most homes can operate with just one or two access points. Exceptions are really large homes, and homes with dense interior walls and floors (brick\block, steel). Too many access points can actually slow things down as the airwaves get saturated with signals.

The Airport utility on iPhone has a WiFi scanner built in, enabled in Settings, then activated in the Airport App. U?se that to gather info about your signal strength and competing signals.

 

[paranoid1123]

Yes I know the express is going to be a lot slower because it’s wireless. I have good coverage everywhere but that corner of the house but it is rarely uses so I can live with the drop in speed. What I need is for the area covered by the bedroom extreme to have higher throughput. As there is a considerable amount of devices connected to it threw Wi-Fi. including my main work laptop and I need faster Wi-Fi speeds. I was thinking about a ax router to replace it but just wanted to add it into the network. Is there a router that will just drop in to replace that extreme. But give faster speed?

 

[paranoid1123]

The express is wirelessly connecting to the network. This results in WiFi bandwidth being split between the Express uplink to the network and clients. It tends to slow all wireless connections.

First thing I would consider is hardwire connecting the express.

Then, look at your placement of the devices, you may be able to improve things by moving Airports around a bit to fill gaps.

Most homes can operate with just one or two access points. Exceptions are really large homes, and homes with dense interior walls and floors (brick\block, steel). Too many access points can actually slow things down as the airwaves get saturated with signals.

The Airport utility on iPhone has a WiFi scanner built in, enabled in Settings, then activated in the Airport App. U?se that to gather info about your signal strength and competing signals.

 

[techwarrior]

Yes I know the express is going to be a lot slower because it’s wireless. I have good coverage everywhere but that corner of the house but it is rarely uses so I can live with the drop in speed. What I need is for the area covered by the bedroom extreme to have higher throughput. As there is a considerable amount of devices connected to it threw Wi-Fi. including my main work laptop and I need faster Wi-Fi speeds. I was thinking about a ax router to replace it but just wanted to add it into the network. Is there a router that will just drop in to replace that extreme. But give faster speed?

The thing with a wireless connected Express is the uplink may be to any of the Extremes, whatever happens to have a stronger signal at the time. But, regardless, wireless bandwidth is compromised when you "extend" wirelessly with Airport devices. Signal strength can fluctuate as interference from all kinds of wireless devices, neighbors networks, radar, microwave, wireless home phones, on and on. The number of Access Points you already have may be trouncing on each other too.

Wireless is a promiscuous network access technology. By that, I mean any radio in range sees every packet and has to inspect it and decide if it needs to be processed. Those packets could be from neighbors networks, or just stray wireless signals from bluetooth or appliances. The more Access Points in an area, the more chance of delays as things get sorted out. That is why I always try to hardwire access points and keep them to a minimum. Also, turn off Guest networks unless you really need them. And any devices that can use Ethernet, do it because that frees up wireless bandwidth for devices that cannot be wired.

In short, less is more in wireless networks.

I dropped my Airport devices for Synology a couple years ago. I was using 2 Extremes and an Express and had gaps. My coverage with Synology RT2600AC + Synology MR2200AC is excellent, better coverage than I ever had with Airport, and nearly flawless performance. Having fewer devices helps, as does a stronger signal.

I helped my brother replace his Extreme + Express for the same Synology setup I have, his network problems disappeared.

So, I am a big fan of the Synology solution.

You may find just hardwiring the Express might help more than you could imagine. Also make sure your uplinks are 1Gbps. If hardwiring the Express is a challenge, power line adapters might be a good thing to consider. I have had good luck with TPLink AV2000 adapters, typically 1Gbps or better ethernet over the power lines in a couple homes I have installed them in.

 

[paranoid1123]

I just added the express in the back corner of one room that wasn’t getting the best speed. Today I ran a cat6 cable to it threw the wall and ceiling to have it wired. No no matter wher I go I have coverage and no matter what I do I can’t get over 400Mbs over Wi-Fi. A lot of my devices are Wi-Fi only and my lap top I’d like much more than that. I pay for 1.2G and I can get that on my hardwired computers but nothing close to that Wi-Fi. I don’t need that speed except I’m one location where I use my laptop. So how can I keep my setup I have now but add a newer router into the mix so I can get faster uploads in one particular area?

 

[hobowankenobi]

Wifi has improved quite a bit in the last few years...so your pursuit of throughput will likely mean newer APs. As was stated...less is more. In any setup with multiple APs, channels and broadcast power is key. The latest APs handle this much better (often automatically) than the best gear from years back.

I too have used and installed several Synology setups, and really like the interface/feature set.

The other option that I recommend (using it daily for years, and my wife works from home...so I know if there are any issues) would be: Ubiquiti. Unifi stuff just works. They are POE, so only one data cable...no more power bricks to worry about, and all APs on a single interface that work seamlessly together.

2 Unifi APs would cover most houses easily...can always add more if needed. I have 3, but one is outside with a directional antenna to cover a medium-size yard and detached garage.

Keep your best/newest AE as a router (with Wifi off) and ad APs as needed. Regardless of brand, your timing is pretty good should you decide to upgrade. Wifi 6 gear is starting to hit the mass market, and prices are coming down.

 

[techwarrior]

I just added the express in the back corner of one room that wasn’t getting the best speed. Today I ran a cat6 cable to it threw the wall and ceiling to have it wired. No no matter wher I go I have coverage and no matter what I do I can’t get over 400Mbs over Wi-Fi. A lot of my devices are Wi-Fi only and my lap top I’d like much more than that. I pay for 1.2G and I can get that on my hardwired computers but nothing close to that Wi-Fi. I don’t need that speed except I’m one location where I use my laptop. So how can I keep my setup I have now but add a newer router into the mix so I can get faster uploads in one particular area?

Again, WiFi is prone to interference. You will rarely get speeds matching ISP service levels over the air, particularly with AC routers and Access Points. 400Mbps is actually pretty good for WiFi performance. When you really need fast downloads, use wired connections.

Speed is a confusing thing, electrons and data travel just as fast on slow networks as fast networks, physics. The perception of speed is what we tend to measure, and it is a bandwidth question, how much data can pass in a period of time. Think of it like a garden hose, put a kink in the hose and the amount of water that gets through is reduced. The water may travel as fast as before the kink, just less of it gets through so it takes longer to fill a bucket.

When you search networks on a device, does it show several neighbor's networks in the list? If so, you are within range of interference. 2.4Ghz is particularly vulnerable to interference from all kinds of sources, radar, bluetooth, wireless home phones, microwave ovens, etc.

A trick you can try is to name the SSID for 5Ghz different. So, NETWORK and NETWORK5G. They can have the same credentials, just different SSIDs. Now, on devices that can use 5Ghz, learn the 5G SSID, and forget the 2.4Ghx SSID.

Why? Because 2.4Ghz will typically max out at 400-500Mbps, is vulnerable to interference, and devices that can only connect to 2.4 are often low bandwidth devices. 5Ghz, while having shorter range, can deliver 1Gbps or better speeds. Yet devices that "know" both frequencies, or which allow the Access Points to determine which frequency to use will often fall back to 2.4 because the signal may appear stronger. But, the algorithms don't typically consider bandwidth (aka perceived speed). By isolating the two frequencies, devices that can use 5Ghz will use that, leaving more bandwidth on the 2.4Ghz spectrum for the legacy devices. Speeds should be considerably faster, potentially even for 2.4Ghz devices due to less traffic on those frequencies.

The WiFi 6 (802.11ax) tech addresses some of the issues with AC, namely interference. It relies on a bit in the packet header to identify which network Access Point it has an active association with so when packets arrive, a quick analysis can be done to determine if a packet should be ignored. This reduces time spent doing a deeper inspection of packets in older WiFi devices, so it reduces bottlenecks.

AC is still capable of good speeds, but you sometimes have to tweak things to get the most out of it. Other things can help, adjusting the channels to avoid overlapping frequencies with other network devices for example.

At the end of the day, too much WiFi can be worse than too little. That is why hardwire whenever possible is a good strategy.

 

[paranoid1123]

Again, WiFi is prone to interference. You will rarely get speeds matching ISP service levels over the air, particularly with AC routers and Access Points. 400Mbps is actually pretty good for WiFi performance. When you really need fast downloads, use wired connections.

Speed is a confusing thing, electrons and data travel just as fast on slow networks as fast networks, physics. The perception of speed is what we tend to measure, and it is a bandwidth question, how much data can pass in a period of time. Think of it like a garden hose, put a kink in the hose and the amount of water that gets through is reduced. The water may travel as fast as before the kink, just less of it gets through so it takes longer to fill a bucket.

When you search networks on a device, does it show several neighbor's networks in the list? If so, you are within range of interference. 2.4Ghz is particularly vulnerable to interference from all kinds of sources, radar, bluetooth, wireless home phones, microwave ovens, etc.

A trick you can try is to name the SSID for 5Ghz different. So, NETWORK and NETWORK5G. They can have the same credentials, just different SSIDs. Now, on devices that can use 5Ghz, learn the 5G SSID, and forget the 2.4Ghx SSID.

Why? Because 2.4Ghz will typically max out at 400-500Mbps, is vulnerable to interference, and devices that can only connect to 2.4 are often low bandwidth devices. 5Ghz, while having shorter range, can deliver 1Gbps or better speeds. Yet devices that "know" both frequencies, or which allow the Access Points to determine which frequency to use will often fall back to 2.4 because the signal may appear stronger. But, the algorithms don't typically consider bandwidth (aka perceived speed). By isolating the two frequencies, devices that can use 5Ghz will use that, leaving more bandwidth on the 2.4Ghz spectrum for the legacy devices. Speeds should be considerably faster, potentially even for 2.4Ghz devices due to less traffic on those frequencies.

The WiFi 6 (802.11ax) tech addresses some of the issues with AC, namely interference. It relies on a bit in the packet header to identify which network Access Point it has an active association with so when packets arrive, a quick analysis can be done to determine if a packet should be ignored. This reduces time spent doing a deeper inspection of packets in older WiFi devices, so it reduces bottlenecks.

AC is still capable of good speeds, but you sometimes have to tweak things to get the most out of it. Other things can help, adjusting the channels to avoid overlapping frequencies with other network devices for example.

At the end of the day, too much WiFi can be worse than too little. That is why hardwire whenever possible is a good strategy

My networks are “apple” “apple 5ghz” and my speeds posted are on the 5Ghz network. I think I’ll go the way of keeping my APE as routers but turn off the Wi-Fi and add Wi-Fi ax access points. That should do the trick?

 

[Clix Pix]

There's a reason that ISPs say that they are offering "up to......" speeds with their services. Yes, if one is using a wired connection they will get much closer to the advertised speed. WiFi? Not so much. Maybe about 20% less than the advertised speed, and even at that there may be factors which add complications so that the WiFi signal isn't as strong, can't get through certain obstacles, etc.

I just very recently replaced my modem (ISP was making changes, I had to update from what I had since it wouldn't be compatible once the changes went into effect and since I own my modem rather than rent it I needed to take action) and I decided that this would be a good time to also replace my router as well. Through the years I'd been using Apple's wonderful AirPort Extreme Base Stations but was aware that sooner or later probably the current one (6th, final generation version) I had in place was probably going to kink out on me and with my luck, more than likely at an extremely inconvenient time, plus I knew it really couldn't take advantage of the latest technology so I took a proactive step and replaced it now. It was a wonderful, faithful, reliable router and I was sad to unplug it......

So now I am up and running very smoothly and quickly with an Arris Surfboard SB8200 DOCSIS 3.1 modem and a Ubiquiti AmpliFi Alien 6 router, and couldn't be happier. I am in a small condominium apartment unit which is all on one level and so I actually don't need to have additional units around my household to augment the primary router's delivery of a strong WiFi signal, but if I did I definitely would go with an AmpliFi mesh point to match my new router. However, yes, in the past, especially in the early days of WiFi I did need to use both an AEBS and an Airport Express to get good strong signals everywhere in my household. Being in a multifamily dwelling with 13 other units which all also have some sort of internet connection complicates matters, as does the construction of the building and my unit as well.

Strategic placement of the primary WiFi router in the first place is absolutely key, and also strategic placement of any additional access points or mesh points that might be deemed necessary. Although my condo unit is nowhere the size of a single-family dwelling -- it is a mere 1045 SF -- I still need to be mindful of where I place the wireless router in order to get the most benefit. Back many, many years ago when the cable company came in and installed internet service for the first time, I was still using a desktop machine in the master bedroom and everything was wired, rather than wireless. So seemingly simple back then: plug in the computer via an ethernet cable right into the modem and that was that.....

Years later wireless came along and I was faced with the now-awkward positioning of the modem, which of course is tied to the cable company's cabling in the bedroom, no easy way to move it to a more optimal location. Since these days I actually spend most of my computing time out in my main living area with my various wireless devices rather than being tied to a desktop in the bedroom, after some thought and experimentation I installed a long CAT 6 cable which runs from the modem in the bedroom to the router out here in the main living area and everything works just fine. Not an elegant or attractive solution -- that CAT 6 cable is right out here, visible to all and sundry rather than being concealed behind walls -- but the important part is that I get strong WiFi signals on my various Apple devices in the places where I use them the most. This works for me.