AirTags = Not an antitheft device

[Deliro]

I don’t think Tile cares about privacy.

Tile doesn’t have a network of devices chained together. So once it’s out of range, it’s essentially gone.

These trackers are indeed not anti theft solutions. They’re to help you find your keys or wallet, etc. I plan to stick one to my itty bitty Apple remote.

I’m sure airtags could theoretically help but once thieves find it they’ll toss it. Or the ignorant ones may think, hmm apple? Expensive! Hang onto it until they figure it out or maybe the owner luckily locates them.

 

[KeithJenner]

Looks like they have accounted for a way to balance anti-stalking and anti-theft. According to this video, and other comments I have read, an iPhone won't activate the anti-stalking notification until the person has gotten home or to a location of significance. No it is not a perfect system, but does seem to strike a balance between the two.

Interesting.

I have no idea how reliable that person is, but would have a few comments.

Mainly, he states that the alert doesn’t happen until you get home or to a location of significance, but then totally ignores the second of those.

My hope has been that the reason why Apple haven’t given a time for the alert is that it depends on other factors. I suggested that you may not get an alert when you are travelling on a train (especially if other people are also seeing the tag), but maybe you would if you and the tag then leave the train together. Is a station a location of significance if you get off the train?

My first instinct is that waiting until you get home before alerting you means that the tracker knows where you live, which I’d imagine would be a major privacy issue. Another poster has started a thread here already stating that this is something that they view as a privacy concern.

My guess (assuming that what the YouTube says is true - he may have just made it up for all I know) is that getting home is a backstop that will send you an alert, ie this is the latest that it will happen, but there are other events which may mean that it happens earlier than that.

I totally agree with the video in that Apple do not want random alerts going out all over the place, so it is no surprise that they are doing things to strike a good balance. The issue I would have with the video is that he just seems to pick on the reference to home and ignore other things.

I’m not saying the video the video is incorrect, but it would surprise me if the trigger that Apple chose for privacy notifications is when you get home.

Does anyone have any confirmation of this? All I have seen somewhere are a number of online comments with no quoted source.

 

[Polly Mercocet]

Apple has other solutions designed explicitly for antitheft such as Find My iPhone/iPad/Mac. This isn't really the primary use case for AirTags.

However, when Find My compatible trackers are built into certain bikes and other items like headphones, the thief cannot just take the tracker off or easily disable it. This would make those items less desirable to thieves.

Stolen iPhones have a low resale value because they can only be sold on for parts once Activation Lock is on. Strictly speaking I have seen methods that can bypass Activation Lock but they require special hardware, the ability to disassemble the iOS device, change the serial number on the physical chip, then putting it back together again. Safe to say, this is above the ability of a common thief.

Essentially I think trackers of any kind tend to work as deterrents so long as they're not easily disabled.

Teslas have one of the lowest rates of theft of any car brand despite being expensive and desirable largely because they have cameras everywhere and can be tracked easily by the owner and the police. Could a sufficiently motivated and skilled thief disable the electronics that power those features? I'm sure it's possible. Are most thieves sufficiently motivated or skilled? Of course not. They'll just go for an easier target instead.

On a smaller scale I can see Find My enabled items, although perhaps not AirTags specifically, having the same effect.

 

[matrix07]

Apple has other solutions designed explicitly for antitheft such as Find My iPhone/iPad/Mac. This isn't really the primary use case for AirTags.

However, when Find My compatible trackers are built into certain bikes and other items like headphones, the thief cannot just take the tracker off or easily disable it. This would make those items less desirable to thieves.

Stolen iPhones have a low resale value because they can only be sold on for parts once Activation Lock is on.

You have a very good point there. I'd love a bike that can be activation locked just like my phone.

 

[_Spinn_]

I don’t think Apple wants the bad publicity if someone tries to recover their stolen item and ends up seriously hurt or killed when confronting the thief. Most people would have common sense not to do this but there’s always at least one person that’s like “hold my beer.”

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Maybe they didn't "market" it as such because they don't want to be held liable. The time between when a thief takes your item and when he is alerted that he is being tracked, is a potential window of opportunity to retrieve your stolen item. We will just have to wait and see.

Edited for typos.

Apple has no motive to sell AirTag as an anti-theft device; not because they want to avoid lawsuits, but because it's inherently ineffective as an anti-theft device.

A separate tracking device can, naturally, be separated from the device to which it's associated. That's not much of a deterrent. A hidden tracking device is also not a deterrent. A deterrent only works when the potential thief knows it's present prior to the theft.

Activation Lock works as a theft deterrent because the capability is baked into each and every iPhone. Thieves now know that seeing someone use an iPhone is not an invitation to theft (unlike, say, flashing a wallet filled with cash). They know they won't be able to get much if any money if they try to sell it. It doesn't prevent the theft of unseen iPhones (inside a purse or backpack). It also doesn't stop a thief from saying, "Give me your phone" in order to prevent an immediate call by the victim to 911 - it does make it more likely that the thief will smash or discard the phone soon after the theft.

Since it's unlikely that tracking tags will ever come into universal use (built into every wallet, purse, bicycle, etc.), there's little reason for a thief to worry there's a tracking tag present in the item being taken. Even if they find a tag after the theft, they're easily disabled.

So no, if Apple were to suggest AirTags was an anti-theft device everyone would have a good laugh, or perhaps sue for false advertising.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

You have a very good point there. I'd love a bike that can be activation locked just like my phone.

Activation Lock prevents the erasure/re-use of the device. What mechanism could be built into a bike that would prevent its use (and could not be easily bypassed/removed)?

 

[MisterSavage]

Someone "accidentally" took my bag at an airport. I got it back and the person didn't leave the airport. An airtag would have been worth its weight in gold while I was freaking out trying to find it.

 

[matrix07]

Activation Lock prevents the erasure/re-use of the device. What mechanism could be built into a bike that would prevent its use (and could not be easily bypassed/removed)?

The way iPhone works. You lock it by pair it with your Apple ID so you can track it with Find My exactly the way iPhone does and when you lock it you lock all the electronic in the bike so the bike won't work.
It will be easier to implement for motorbike than a bike though 😄

 

[ApfelKuchen]

The way iPhone works. You lock it by pair it with your Apple ID so you can track it with Find My exactly the way iPhone does and when you lock it you lock all the electronic in the bike so the bike won't work.
It will be easier to implement for motorbike than a bike though 😄

Yes, it could work in a motorbike/eBike (although I think some of those are still equipped for human-powered override for when the battery dies), but that wasn't specified in the original comment. I chose to envision a conventional, old-fashioned, fully-mechanical, human-powered bicycle. At least, I think there are still such things.

 

[parseckadet]

Interesting.

I have no idea how reliable that person is, but would have a few comments.

Mainly, he states that the alert doesn’t happen until you get home or to a location of significance, but then totally ignores the second of those.

My hope has been that the reason why Apple haven’t given a time for the alert is that it depends on other factors. I suggested that you may not get an alert when you are travelling on a train (especially if other people are also seeing the tag), but maybe you would if you and the tag then leave the train together. Is a station a location of significance if you get off the train?

My first instinct is that waiting until you get home before alerting you means that the tracker knows where you live, which I’d imagine would be a major privacy issue. Another poster has started a thread here already stating that this is something that they view as a privacy concern.

My guess (assuming that what the YouTube says is true - he may have just made it up for all I know) is that getting home is a backstop that will send you an alert, ie this is the latest that it will happen, but there are other events which may mean that it happens earlier than that.

I totally agree with the video in that Apple do not want random alerts going out all over the place, so it is no surprise that they are doing things to strike a good balance. The issue I would have with the video is that he just seems to pick on the reference to home and ignore other things.

I’m not saying the video the video is incorrect, but it would surprise me if the trigger that Apple chose for privacy notifications is when you get home.

Does anyone have any confirmation of this? All I have seen somewhere are a number of online comments with no quoted source.

Not really sure why you are casting so much doubt on this guy. Watching the video he clearly has a set of AirTags. Right now the only way he could have them is if he was provided a review unit by Apple directly. That also means that he has contacts within Apple to send questions to and get some kind of a response. So he's in a better position than most on this topic. Further, he's the reviewer who found the issue with the i9 MacBook Pro improperly thermal throttling when it first came out. His video directly led to Apple issuing a firmware update to address the issue. He even sent Apple sample project files (I forget if they were FinalCut or something else) to help them reproduce the bug. In my book he's very reliable.

As for your train example, you seem to be forgetting that this notification will only be sent if the AirTag is separated from its owner. If the owner is on the train, then nobody will get a notification at all.

 

[parseckadet]

Activation Lock prevents the erasure/re-use of the device. What mechanism could be built into a bike that would prevent its use (and could not be easily bypassed/removed)?

I mean, I don't understand what the problem is with bike locks. A visit to any college campus will show you that they clearly work, since just about every bike will have one. Hell, I still have my bike from college. The lock has been permanently attached for almost 20 years because I lost the key and can't be bothered to cut the thing off.

 

[KeithJenner]

Not really sure why you are casting so much doubt on this guy. Watching the video he clearly has a set of AirTags. Right now the only way he could have them is if he was provided a review unit by Apple directly. That also means that he has contacts within Apple to send questions to and get some kind of a response. So he's in a better position than most on this topic. Further, he's the reviewer who found the issue with the i9 MacBook Pro improperly thermal throttling when it first came out. His video directly led to Apple issuing a firmware update to address the issue. He even sent Apple sample project files (I forget if they were FinalCut or something else) to help them reproduce the bug. In my book he's very reliable.

As for your train example, you seem to be forgetting that this notification will only be sent if the AirTag is separated from its owner. If the owner is on the train, then nobody will get a notification at all.

If it reads that I am casting doubt on him then that is either my writing or your reading giving a false impression. I stated that I am not saying that he is incorrect. However, I haven't seen anything in any way official about this, and it does seem to go against what apple have said. Again, he may be right, if so then it surprises me that apple went this way with it. I do believe that he has passed by a few things though (specifically what is a "location of significance").

I would say that I have absolutely no idea (or, to be honest any interest) who this guy is. YouTube is not where I generally go for information.

As for the train example, I didn't make it clear, but I am talking about a situation where someone leaves a bag on a train. This has been discussed a few times (as have buses, planes etc) as a time where lots of people may suddenly get these alerts and as the video says, apple would want to avoid these sort of false alarms if they can.

 

[Polly Mercocet]

A hidden tracking device is also not a deterrent. A deterrent only works when the potential thief knows it's present prior to the theft.

All iPhones have Activation Lock and thieves are aware of this, they know if they steal an iPhone they'll have to sell it for parts and it'll track them if it has an internet connection.

If Apple decided to put Find My compatible trackers in all Beats headphones, and every thief then knew that all Beats headphones now had trackers in them, they'd likely steal other brands instead.

A tracker not visible to the human eye works very well as a deterrent just as long as everyone knows it's there.

The cameras on a Tesla are not obvious to the naked eye, nor is the fact the car can be tracked from an app through GPS, or that they can't be started if not in bluetooth range of the owner's phone... but they still have low theft rates as a result of all this because thieves will just go for an easier target.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

All iPhones have Activation Lock and thieves are aware of this, they know if they steal an iPhone they'll have to sell it for parts and it'll track them if it has an internet connection.

If Apple decided to put Find My compatible trackers in all Beats headphones, and every thief then knew that all Beats headphones now had trackers in them, they'd likely steal other brands instead.

A tracker not visible to the human eye works very well as a deterrent just as long as everyone knows it's there.

The cameras on a Tesla are not obvious to the naked eye, nor is the fact the car can be tracked from an app through GPS, or that they can't be started if not in bluetooth range of the owner's phone... but they still have low theft rates as a result of all this because thieves will just go for an easier target.

We hold these truths to be self-evident.

However, this discussion is not related to an entire product line equipped with anti-theft measures. It's about optional tags that can be affixed to anything. What are the odds that any one purse, wallet, backpack, or key ring has a tracking tag? Without the likelihood that an item has a tracking tag, there is no deterrence.

Further, anti-theft measures are only effective deterrents if they are difficult to defeat. Detaching a tag ends the threat of tracking, leaving whatever the tag "protected" with its original value. Tracking/anti-theft measures built into the product make the entire product "radioactive."

Fortunately, it's far more likely that someone will misplace a key ring or wallet than that they will be robbed on the street. I don't need a theft deterrent on my key ring. Tracking tags, however, will make my occasional searches for missing items a bit easier.

 

[duervo]

Tile doesn’t have a network of devices chained together. …

Yes, they do.

 

[Deliro]

Yes, they do.

You’re right. They do now. I was an original user. I don’t believe they had it then. Seemed like whenever it was out of blue tooth range it was off the grid.

 

[CE3]

I put one in my car this afternoon in a location where it would be difficult to hear the beep while driving. It’s my understanding that a potential thief with an iPhone won’t receive an alert that an AirTag is with them until they return home. So while it’s not a perfect anti-theft solution, with the FindMy network and for less than $30 it can’t be beat. I guarantee you these things will be locating some stolen vehicles over the next 12 months.

 

[matrix07]

I put one in my car this afternoon in a location where it would be difficult to hear the beep while driving. It’s my understanding that a potential thief won’t receive an alert that an airtag is with them until they return home.. so while it’s not a perfect anti-theft solution, with the FindMy network and less than $30 it can’t be beat. I guarantee you these things will be locating some stolen vehicles over the next 12 months.

I plan to put one in my car as well but I need to be creative. Not that I fear the would-be theif would hear a beep but where I live it can be intolerably hot and I'm reluctant to put anything with battery inside in. I may have to stick it under the car instead 🙁
Basically it'll not be anti-thief as much as I just want to know where it is 24/7.

 

[CE3]

I plan to put one in my car as well but I need to be creative. Not that I fear the would-be theif would hear a beep but where I live it can be intolerably hot and I'm reluctant to put anything with battery inside in. I may have to stick it under the car instead 🙁
Basically it'll not be anti-thief as much as I just want to know where it is 24/7.

Yeah, I think it’ll be nice to have while traveling. You can park downtown in a large unfamiliar city, explore all day and not have to worry about where you parked. No more dropping pins on maps and sending locations to yourself..and a much easier and more accurate locating process if you need it. Some people probably already have these features embedded in their vehicles. I don’t.. so for $30 I think it’s a tremendous value.

 

[I7guy]

Yeah, I think it’ll be nice to have while traveling. You can park downtown in a large unfamiliar city, explore all day and not have to worry about where you parked. No more dropping pins on maps and sending locations to yourself..and a much easier and more accurate locating process if you need it. Some people probably already have these features embedded in their vehicles. I don’t.. so for $30 I think it’s a great value.

If you connect to your cars' bluetooth, when you disconnect I believe Apple Maps will drop a pin automatically. (I think).

 

[CE3]

If you connect to your cars' bluetooth, when you disconnect I believe Apple Maps will drop a pin automatically. (I think).

You’re right, but I’ve only noticed it dropping pins a few times after parking. Maybe I’m not paying attention, though. I still feel like that’s something I’d have to babysit, and obviously you get no location tracking if it’s moved. Also, I drive a hybrid that I will often park and lock, but leave on while going into stores, etc.. especially in the summer to keep it cool (if it’s parked for an hour the ICE engine will run for maybe for 3-5 minutes), so the Bluetooth doesn’t turn off in that case.

Thinking about the unfamiliar city scenario I mentioned, something else an AirTag in your car can help with just occurred to me: Getting towed.

 

[I7guy]

You’re right, but I’ve only noticed it dropping pins a few times after parking. Maybe I’m not paying attention, though. I still feel like that’s something I’d have to babysit, and obviously you get no location tracking if it’s moved. Also, I drive a hybrid that I will often park, lock, but leave on while going into stores, etc.. especially in the summer to keep it cool (if it’s parked and on for an hour the ICE engine will maybe run for 5 minutes), so the Bluetooth doesn’t shut off in that case.

Thinking about the unfamiliar city scenario I mentioned, something else an AirTag in your car can help with just occurred to me: Getting towed.

Interesting use of an airtag. Sorry to hear your car was towed, what a PITA (not to mention the sinking feeling of not having your car where your left it). But an airtag would rely on an iphone being nearby and in a tow-lot I would think it's a crapshoot in that situation.

My old car had an app, where the car had a telecommunications control unit connected to cell service, so the cars' location could be pinpointed. But I get your point.

 

[Polly Mercocet]

However, this discussion is not related to an entire product line equipped with anti-theft measures. It's about optional tags that can be affixed to anything. What are the odds that any one purse, wallet, backpack, or key ring has a tracking tag? Without the likelihood that an item has a tracking tag, there is no deterrence.

If you scroll up a bit to my first comment on this page, I made no claims about AirTags specifically being good anti-theft devices. I said devices with embedded Find My trackers in them would be better for the antitheft use case because the tracker is built in and it'll work as a deterrent.

 

[KeithJenner]

You’re right, but I’ve only noticed it dropping pins a few times after parking. Maybe I’m not paying attention, though. I still feel like that’s something I’d have to babysit, and obviously you get no location tracking if it’s moved. Also, I drive a hybrid that I will often park and lock, but leave on while going into stores, etc.. especially in the summer to keep it cool (if it’s parked for an hour the ICE engine will run for maybe for 3-5 minutes), so the Bluetooth doesn’t turn off in that case.

Thinking about the unfamiliar city scenario I mentioned, something else an AirTag in your car can help with just occurred to me: Getting towed.

The dropping of a pin seems to be quite random. More often than not there is no car marked on my map.

But, if I open maps and search for “parked car” then it is quite reliably there.