AliveCor Announces Apple Watch 'Kardia Band' for Medical Grade EKG Analysis

[SevenSeas]

This is the way ahead I've been waiting to see. The possibilities are endless as medical grade monitoring equipment becomes miniaturized and mainstreamed into consumer electronics. These products will do a lot of good for a number of folks out there. It will be a sight to see where things continue to go from here.

 

[Gizmotoy]

This can't possibly be accurate. My dad had a medical emergency last week. The EMTs started out with a four-lead ECG. They then switched to a 12-lead. The pads were dispersed all over his torso. The electrical signals travel from right to left across the heart. How could a wrist monitor (which might be on either wrist) perform the same function?

I don't know about this wrist-based version, but AliveCor's stand-alone 2-lead module is accurate enough for my wife's cardiologist to recommend daily readings, and readings during any symptomatic periods, which he then reviews in batches we can send to him every few weeks.

When she's in the office they're obviously going to use the full medical-grade machine, but this provides insight into the 99% of time outside the 60-second ECG that gets taken during an office visit, and for that it is extremely valuable.

Edit: Wanted to correct the above... you place your hand on two plates, but that's considered single-lead, not 2-lead. I was mistaken.

 

[macfacts]

So a new watch band for each health activity/reading?

 

[yaxomoxay]

So a new watch band for each health activity/reading?

For now, probably yes. Then things will consolidate.

 

[Ramius]

A heart rate sensor for a watch with an already built in heart rate sensor? Seems like that wasnt good enough then. Which proves that it sucks.

 

[yaxomoxay]

A heart rate sensor for a watch with an already built in heart rate sensor? Seems like that wasnt good enough then. Which proves that it sucks.

Heart rate sensor <> EKG/ECG analysis

 

[Dave00]

No, no, no, no, no. This is so fantastically wrong. I can't believe this got approval.

You cannot do an EKG/ECG from one lead. It's not an EKG.

Second, I can't think of a way you would be able to determine rhythm from one lead. The physics aren't there. You need at least 3 leads just to do telemetry, which is what you see when someone is on a heart monitor at the hospital. It might be able to determine whether a rate is irregular, but that's about it.

This has fraud written all over it. I wouldn't rely on a watch to determine heart rhythm. Period.

To the moderators, I would remove what appears to be an endorsement of a product that basically has no possibility of actually working and has potential to cause harm.

Sincerely,
D. Sacco, MD

 

[iLondoner]

You cannot do an EKG/ECG from one lead. It's not an EKG. Second, I can't think of a way you would be able to determine rhythm from one lead

In your opinion... My wife has AFib and is signed up to a medical trial in the UK led by two of the UK's top EPs (electro physiologists).

She has the current AliveCor device which clips into a specially-designed iPhone 6 case and is able to take and annotate ECGs at will storing the results on the iPhone (Bluetooth connection). The EPs are delighted she has the AliveCor device and can instantly tell if she is in sinus rhythm. In fact she can now intepret the results quite well, looking for rhythm and P-wave.

 

[dangerly]

This can't possibly be accurate. My dad had a medical emergency last week. The EMTs started out with a four-lead ECG. They then switched to a 12-lead. The pads were dispersed all over his torso. The electrical signals travel from right to left across the heart. How could a wrist monitor (which might be on either wrist) perform the same function?

You're 100% correct.
An ECG machine needs a minimum of four electrodes, cardiologists use electrocardiographs with eight leads/electrodes.
This Kardia Band seems another toy for health addicts, it can't possibly deliver an accurate ECG.

 

[DynaFXD]

It's probably accurate, just not as accurate as a medical grade EKG.

Well, the title of the article specifically says "medical grade EKG analysis". Can someone provide the hierarchy of what is casual analysis versus medical grade and those in between? The title sounds like they are intimating the highest standard.

edit: word choice

 

[Ries]

Not exactly new... It is just a band that syncs using bluetooth to the watch. A phone would work just as fine.
https://nymi.com/product_overview

These people use it to create a "ID", not as health device.

Theres even a $30 watch with it

 

[Gizmotoy]

No, no, no, no, no. This is so fantastically wrong. I can't believe this got approval.

You cannot do an EKG/ECG from one lead. It's not an EKG.

Second, I can't think of a way you would be able to determine rhythm from one lead. The physics aren't there. You need at least 3 leads just to do telemetry, which is what you see when someone is on a heart monitor at the hospital. It might be able to determine whether a rate is irregular, but that's about it.

This has fraud written all over it. I wouldn't rely on a watch to determine heart rhythm. Period.

To the moderators, I would remove what appears to be an endorsement of a product that basically has no possibility of actually working and has potential to cause harm.

Sincerely,
D. Sacco, MD

Fortunately, this is false. You should examine the literature. 1-lead ECGs are definitely a thing, and they even sell handheld models for use in taking quick measurements in hospitals.

1-lead ECGs can easily be used to detect afib, aflutter, and PVCs, which is the primary target market for these devices.

The ZIO Patch, a 1-lead ECG, is rapidly replacing Holter monitors. Many facilities now use them exclusively, or nearly so. So not only is it physically possible, it's very common.

 

[oneMadRssn]

Apple Watch' killer app: to save lives (pun intended)

If I may be technical for a moment, that's not a pun. It's an irony - killer app saves lives. Irony is using words to express something other than their literal intention.

 

[a.gomez]

Jesus, that thing looks ugly on her wrist. I think this is going in the right direction with the band -just like what MainTool is doing.

Maybe the future the notification window will also be on the band - great for the rest of us who do not want a silly looking Inspector Gadget watch on our wrist, but want the health benefits of a smartwatch/tracker.

 

[Ropie]

AliveCor - are you kidding me??! This is like something out of Bladerunner. You think the company has your best interests at heart (yes, a pun) but give them your money and soon enough they'll be monitoring not only your health, but your death, your insurance premiums, your children's carbon dioxide production tax, eventually deciding how long you get on this Earth, all to maximize profit.

Don't do it!!!!

 

[ohio.emt]

Fortunately, this is false. You should examine the literature. 1-lead ECGs are definitely a thing, and they even sell handheld models for use in taking quick measurements in hospitals.

1-lead ECGs can easily be used to detect afib, aflutter, and PVCs, which is the primary target market for these devices.

The ZIO Patch, a 1-lead ECG, is rapidly replacing Holter monitors. Many facilities now use them exclusively, or nearly so. So not only is it physically possible, it's very common.

Not common around were I'm at. Also never seen one used in place of a Holter monitor.

I don't care for some of their marketing. They state it is the most clinically-validated mobile EKG available, but then read the fine print and it's only being compared to smartphone devices. I also don't care for the term medical grade. To me that makes it seem a little more then it is even though technically the term is accurate since it's FDA approved.

Don't get me wrong I think portable ECG's are great for people that have heart problems. It just a lot of doctors don't explain it's limitations to patient. Same with automated BP cuffs. Seems like no one explains that they can be inaccurate at times.

 

[iLondoner]

Most AFib (atrial fibrillation) sufferers start out as paroxysmal—the episodes are sporadic—and the danger is that eventually they become persistent (permanent), at which stage the condition is much more difficult to treat through ablation or maze procedure.

The rate of progress from paroxysmal to persistent often isn't detected as many of the episodes are silent (no symptoms) and often occur at night. So it's fantastically helpful for my wife to be able to do a quick check when she wakes in the middle of the night, or at odd occasions during the day. Without this device we would be flying blind.

With the device she has the chance of using a 'pill in the pocket' to close down an episode and reduce the risk of a stroke.

Don't mistake this as being a toy or some kind of fraud. There's an awful lot of people spouting nonsense on this thread without knowing what they are talking about.

The iPhone-based AliveCor device is a breakthrough technology and the Watch device is a furtherance of that.

And for those who really aren't aware of the vast number of 1-lead ECG machines on the market, here's a comprehensive article comparing them: https://www.ndsu.edu/pubweb/~grier/Comparison-handheld-ECG-EKG.html

 

[Tubamajuba]

A heart rate sensor for a watch with an already built in heart rate sensor? Seems like that wasnt good enough then. Which proves that it sucks.

"Tires for a car that has tires included already? Seems like that wasn't good enough then. Which proves that it sucks."
"Windows for a house with already built in windows? Seems like that wasn't good enough then. Which proves that it sucks."
"A light for a lamp with an already built in light? Seems like that wasn't good enough then. Which proves that it sucks."
"Apps for a phone with already built in apps? Seems like that wasn't good enough then. Which proves that it sucks."

 

[ohio.emt]

Most AFib (atrial fibrillation) sufferers start out as paroxysmal—the episodes are sporadic—and the danger is that eventually they become persistent (permanent), at which stage the condition is much more difficult to treat through abalation or maze procedure.

The rate of progress from paroxysmal to persistent often isn't detected as many of the episodes are silent (no symptoms) and often occur at night. So it's fantastically helpful for my wife to be able to do a quick check when she wakes in the middle of the night, or at odd occasions during the day. Without this device we would be flying blind.

Don't mistake this as being a toy or some kind of fraud.

The iPhone-based AliveCor device is a breakthrough technology and the Watch device is a furtherance of that.

Article comparing the various devices currently on the market: https://www.ndsu.edu/pubweb/~grier/Comparison-handheld-ECG-EKG.html

I was just actually reading that article, since I have yet to see a 1-lead type ECG were I'm at. It's very informative.

I can see the watch version actually giving better reading then the case version. Due to how they are held, the watch version easier to hold stable, so you don't get movement artifact.

 

[blacktape242]

A GPS band would be pretty sweet too..

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

As someone who had heart surgery at 17, I am glad about this technology.
Guys, we're witnessing a medical revolution.

Granted it helps a miniority of people with specialized conditions, but I think this leads the majority of people to become obsessed with their own health, to the point of it becoming unhealthy. I'd be more stressed out knowing my every heart beat (and mis-beat), constant access to my BP and HR, etc., and stressing over little individual incidences. I'm no doctor and so I don't need that constant access to that information. But that's just me.

I think we're witnessing a new generation of hyper-focused health-nut people that may wind up doing more harm than good to their bodies and minds.

 

[dadohead]

As a former Afib sufferer, I can't tell you how huge this is. I was lucky; my Afib was always accompanied by tachycardia, so I didn't really need a device to tell me when I was having an event. Many aren't so lucky. This device, however, would have been helpful in discovering the contours of my Afib with an EP, rather than relying on anecdotal information. Believe me, convincing an insurance company to pop for a $200K operation is no piece of cake. If this device pans out, I might consider getting an Apple watch for this reason alone. Because I wouldn't touch an Apple watch for any other reason. Also, to Afib sufferers: I went from having 2-3 events a day and taking 100 mg Metoprolol and Xarelto daily, to having zero events and no meds. Catheter ablation works. The hardest part? Getting off Metoprolol; that stuff is like heroin.

 

[ohio.emt]

No, no, no, no, no. This is so fantastically wrong. I can't believe this got approval.

You cannot do an EKG/ECG from one lead. It's not an EKG.

Second, I can't think of a way you would be able to determine rhythm from one lead. The physics aren't there. You need at least 3 leads just to do telemetry, which is what you see when someone is on a heart monitor at the hospital. It might be able to determine whether a rate is irregular, but that's about it.

This has fraud written all over it. I wouldn't rely on a watch to determine heart rhythm. Period.

To the moderators, I would remove what appears to be an endorsement of a product that basically has no possibility of actually working and has potential to cause harm.

Sincerely,
D. Sacco, MD

You do realize even using a 3 or 4 lead ECG machine, your basic rhythm interpretation is read using 1 lead (i.e. Lead II). The watch uses two contact points one on each side of the body for it's reading. You can do the same using got the LA, and RA leads on a standard LP15, which will give you a Lead I reading. If you don't believe that look up Einthoven's triangle.

 

[Mac 128]

Coin cell battery according to their website. Didn't anything to answer the communication question.

At 200 hours/12 months operational time on a single coin cell battery, it's hard to imagine it would connect via Bluetooth. Maybe NFC? It would need to be very low power, and it's already in very close proximity. So that would be ideal, but I didn't think that Apple allowed access to NFC yet? Would it be possible to transmit a signal that could be picked up by the "diagnostic" pins on the other side of the aluminum cover, without actually physically connecting to them?

 

[ohio.emt]

At 200 hours/12 months operational time on a single coin cell battery, it's hard to imagine it would connect via Bluetooth. Maybe NFC? It would need to be very low power, and it's already in very close proximity. So that would be ideal, but I didn't think that Apple allowed access to NFC yet? Would it be possible to transmit a signal that could be picked up by the "diagnostic" pins on the other side of the aluminum cover, without actually physically connecting to them?

Probably uses Bluetooth LE, also doubt that Bluetooth is actively transmitting until you place you finger on the outside electrode or it receives a signal from the watch.