Alternative to Photoshop?

[Ambrosia7177]

Hi.

I would like to get back into photo-editing after being away from it for years.

The problem is that I am hesitant to do down the path of using Photoshop since it is now subscription-based. (I owned a copy of Photoshop many, many years ago, and loved it, but this whole subscription-based software thing has me frazzled.)

My end-goal is to take photos so they can be published on the web.

Adjusting levels, tweaking the color, cropping, and reducing a 20 MB file down to a compressed size that will quickly display on my website!!

I know there are some open-source options out the there (e.g. Gimp), but they are clunky and have ZERO support communities.

Any suggestions?

 

[BrianBaughn]

One thing I can think of right now for those tasks: GraphicConverter. It has been around a long time.

Lemke Software: GraphicConverter

www.lemkesoft.de

 

[hg.wells]

Affinity Photo is a great alternative to Photoshop

 

[AZhappyjack]

Photoshop Elements is a viable option. It's a one-time purchase (vs subscription), and has the same interface and many of the same features as the Adobe subscription app Photoshop. It's priced around $89, but you can usually find a deal ($30-50) if you look around.

 

[r.harris1]

Second Affinity Photo. They're not currently subscription-based.

 

[HUGE AL]

Pixelmator Pro has been fantastic since initial release -- which was around the same time Photoshop was converting to subscription.

 

[Fishrrman]

Some I can think of:

Alien Skin Exposure Xx (the little "x" is the release number).

DXO PhotoLab.

Luminar.

Photoscape X.

 

[USAntigoon]

Pixelmator Pro has been fantastic since initial release -- which was around the same time Photoshop was converting to subscription.

I agree, but like to add that Photomator is better for direct post editing, Pixelmator once you start going beyond regular post edit..I have them both and might consider to drop Capture One Pro as its becoming way too expensive..

 

[HUGE AL]

I agree, but like to add that Photomator is better for direct post editing, Pixelmator once you start going beyond regular post edit..I have them both and might consider to drop Capture One Pro as its becoming way too expensive..

Per my other post, I have yet to use Photos on the Mac and have been trying to get it to play nice with a NAS.

If you are considering replacing Capture One Pro with Photomator, wondering if it's safe to assume Photomator can be used to organize photos much like the Photos App (hate the common naming) does.

 

[USAntigoon]

Per my other post, I have yet to use Photos on the Mac and have been trying to get it to play nice with a NAS.

If you are considering replacing Capture One Pro with Photomator, wondering if it's safe to assume Photomator can be used to organize photos much like the Photos App (hate the common naming) does.

Just try the Mac Photos with a controlled amount of pics and see how you like it. It interacts very nicely with Photomator..My most important pics are also in my Flickr albums account that I share with family and friends. In Flickr you can control who can view your pics (public, family, friends)..All my Flick albums are in SSD back up as well ..All my RAW pics are in SSD back up etc..

 

[TSE]

Pixelmator Pro & Affinity Suite has taken over and I'm much happier with them. Especially Pixelmator Pro.

 

[chmania]

I know there are some open-source options out the there (e.g. Gimp), but ...

Some GIMP tutorials. 21 lessons there. You can find more.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Is it worth escaping Adobe's perpetual licensing scheme for losing all of the support you get with Photoshop?

Have been pondering all of this, and one big item in my brain is that there are one million video tutorials - plus just as many written articles - on how to ____ in Photoshop.

If I go the way of any other choice, I would sacrifice a lot of help/support/tutorials.

I guess that is how Adobe gets you...

 

[OldMacs4Me]

FWIW I've found a lot of support videos for AffinityPhoto.

 

[r.harris1]

I think you'll find communities of helpful people and tutorials with whatever tool you choose. I have several photography-related subscriptions and Adobe is one of them. For me, it's worth it at present. I also have the Affinity Suite, and because they're after Adobe's publishing market, as OldMacs4Me mentions, they've got a lot of helpful videos and tutorials.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

I think you'll find communities of helpful people and tutorials with whatever tool you choose. I have several photography-related subscriptions and Adobe is one of them. For me, it's worth it at present. I also have the Affinity Suite, and because they're after Adobe's publishing market, as OldMacs4Me mentions, they've got a lot of helpful videos and tutorials.

When it comes down to it, how interchangeable are photo-editing applications?

For instance, I would argue that if you understand the metaphors used in a word processor, then switching between MS Word and Open-Office Writer and Libre Office Writer isn't a big deal.

Same for spreadsheets.

What about for Adobe Photoshop versus the recommendations above?

 

[r.harris1]

When it comes down to it, how interchangeable are photo-editing applications?

For instance, I would argue that if you understand the metaphors used in a word processor, then switching between MS Word and Open-Office Writer and Libre Office Writer isn't a big deal.

Same for spreadsheets.

What about for Adobe Photoshop versus the recommendations above?

If you are working in raw format, it's going to be at least a smidge different. Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) will process slightly differently than Affinity, for example, or Capture One. Cameras record luminance data + metadata about the shot (maybe the white balance you've chosen, that sort of thing). De-mosaicing is the process that a raw converter goes through to show you something on the screen, on the web or on a print. Converting a raw file to something that makes sense to your eyes is where each program may differ as it's often their "secret sauce". The differences may or may not matter - you should decide that by looking at it for yourself - but the thing to be aware of is that edits of raw files in ACR don't translate to edits in the Affinity raw converter (or C1 or DxO or... etc), at least for the most part. If you are a raw shooter, you can't carry the edits you did in Adobe (easily) to another program. You need to start over. There are translator programs that don't do a great job...

If you are primarily moving JPEGs, TIFFs or other "cooked" formats around, you should be able to move around however you choose.

More information than you likely wanted .

 

[HUGE AL]

Just try the Mac Photos with a controlled amount of pics and see how you like it. It interacts very nicely with Photomator..My most important pics are also in my Flickr albums account that I share with family and friends. In Flickr you can control who can view your pics (public, family, friends)..All my Flick albums are in SSD back up as well ..All my RAW pics are in SSD back up etc..

More than happy to!! The trouble is: getting the library to play nice with a NAS. Apple and many users on their official board advise against it. As usual, my love/hate relationship with Apple continues as I (crazily) think we should be able to store our data where WE want. 😃

 

[Ambrosia7177]

@r.harris1

Thanks for the response.

I have to shift gears in my brain from videography - which I am learning - back to photography - which I am RE-learning!

In years past I guess I preferred to shoot in raw format for more flexibility.

So, in that case, if I went with one application and started to edit my raw photos, and later I wanted to switch to another photo-editing application, I'd basically have to do all of my edits over, right?

But if I shoot photos in JPEG then switching between photo-editing applications shouldn't cause any issues with the edited photos, right?

Btw, trying to remember, but TIFF isn't the same as raw, huh?

 

[r.harris1]

@r.harris1

Thanks for the response.

I have to shift gears in my brain from videography - which I am learning - back to photography - which I am RE-learning!

In years past I guess I preferred to shoot in raw format for more flexibility.

So, in that case, if I went with one application and started to edit my raw photos, and later I wanted to switch to another photo-editing application, I'd basically have to do all of my edits over, right?

But if I shoot photos in JPEG then switching between photo-editing applications shouldn't cause any issues with the edited photos, right?

Btw, trying to remember, but TIFF isn't the same as raw, huh?

Yep. Raw is luminance+metadata about luminance (roughly speaking). The raw converter developers will apply their own special sauce on top of that and it could look different between converters. Can you make any of them them look like your preferred view of the world? Absolutely! But just note that it could (and probably will) look different between converters. And no converter can understand another's interpretation. You'd generally need to start over moving between them. There's no standard view of the world in interpreting a specific manufacturer's raw format. Moving between raw converters can be a definite challenge. How Adobe interprets luminance+metadata will be different from Capture One, DxO or Luminar (or whomever).

There's truth to the notion that raw files can be described as TIFF, but better described as "TIFF+manufacturer special sauce". But mostly, TIFF files as we know them are processed (or "baked"), at least to some degree. If I import a raw file into any raw processor, it's going to have white-balance applied, a curve of some sort applied, at minimum.

DNG is a special sort of "container" for image data. You'll hear the term "linear DNG" which means that the image has been partially processed with things that can be easily manipulated (e.g. white balance) and I could potentially "un-apply" this and get back to something closer to luminance data. But when I do other things like color grading, cropping and so-forth, I can't "unbake the cake". TIFF files can contain these changes too.

JPEG should be transferable between any system since it's a "fully baked cake". It has the white-balance, color grading. cropping, and whatever else applied to it. It has significant flexibility loss, of course. You can never get back to the original raw data. For example, a JPEG that's baked with a 4x3 crop on an original 3x2 image and with a "daylight" white balance on an original "flash" white balance can't be "unbaked". You can't change back to the original 3x2 image with a "flash" white balance. You can crop (further) and change the white balance, but it's additive (e.g. on top of the other changes already baked in).

 

[Ambrosia7177]

@r.harris1

Wow! What a response. I am starting to feel overwhelmed.

So, anyways, do you use Photoshop?

You recommended Affinity Photo, but do you use it?

 

[r.harris1]

@r.harris1

Wow! What a response. I am starting to feel overwhelmed.

So, anyways, do you use Photoshop?

You recommended Affinity Photo, but do you use it?

I’m coming up to speed on Affinity Photo and do use it more and more, but honestly still mostly use Photoshop. I like it. My preferred combo is Capture One for raw processing and Photoshop for any pixel level stuff. Lots of good stuff out there though.

 

[Ray2]

When it comes down to it, how interchangeable are photo-editing applications?

For instance, I would argue that if you understand the metaphors used in a word processor, then switching between MS Word and Open-Office Writer and Libre Office Writer isn't a big deal.

Same for spreadsheets.

What about for Adobe Photoshop versus the recommendations above?

If you’re editing raw files, the edited/adjusted files are not interchangeable between companies. I say companies as Adobe edited raws are interchangeable between PS, LR and perhaps PE. The raw files basically remain unedited and import into other apps as OOC raw files. To see the edited version in other company apps, one has to view exported jpeg or tiff versions. Which have any edits baked in and, while one can further edit, once cannot “unedit”.

The reality though is unless you go back frequently and tweak prior edits, it’s no big deal changing editors. Where it is a challenge is learning another app. An app you hopefully like. Or you may be learning several other apps.

You don’t mention DAM, the catalog side. Assume you file within the Finder.

I’m a heavy Lightroom and light Photoshop user. I dislike Adobe as a company and despise subscriptions. Other than cloud storage and Apple TV+ Lightroom is my only tech related subscription. For $10 a month I get PS, LR Classic, LR Cloudy, a handful of other apps I don’t use, a very nice website builder called Portfolio, some handy sharing focused slide show utilities that do a very nice job and are simple to use and a wealth of support.

My journey was Apple's Aperture, C1 then Lightroom. Aperture no longer exists. Ask yourself how many of the recommended names existed when you were last involved in photography. Ask yourself why all the names that used to exist don’t appear amongst the recommendations. Ask yourself how many times you want to go through this process again.

From the description you provided for images editing flow, I’m not sure why you’re looking at Photoshop. Lightroom Classic might be sufficient. It’s simpler and, for dealing with volumes of files of which few are edited, LR Classic has superb tools for managing an efficient culling and ranking process. Toss in compatibility with PS and best in class DAM and I’d suggest a cursory look at LR Classic. I also use LR Cloudy. It’s my Apple Photos replacement and is the catalog that serves our family and friends via sharing that 1), works better than Photos and 2), has tools that enable one to publish a slideshow in the manner you want it to flow as opposed to Apple's forced illogical sequencing. Does have OK synchronization with Classic, once you understand it. I doubt if it brings anything to your described needs.

Good luck.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

I’m coming up to speed on Affinity Photo and do use it more and more, but honestly still mostly use Photoshop. I like it. My preferred combo is Capture One for raw processing and Photoshop for any pixel level stuff. Lots of good stuff out there though.

Does Photoshop not do raw processing?

Many many years ago I had a DSLR and I think there was Nikon Capture which was Nikon's solution to editing their raw files.

Do you need two pieces of software to work properly with raw camera files?

Or can Photoshop, or Affinity Photo, or whatever do it all?


On a side note: @r.harris1 do you use more than Photoshop in the Adobe suite?

 

[Ambrosia7177]

@Ray2

If you’re editing raw files, the edited/adjusted files are not interchangeable between companies. I say companies as Adobe edited raws are interchangeable between PS, LR and perhaps PE. The raw files basically remain unedited and import into other apps as OOC raw files. To see the edited version in other company apps, one has to view exported jpeg or tiff versions. Which have any edits baked in and, while one can further edit, once cannot “unedit”.

The reality though is unless you go back frequently and tweak prior edits, it’s no big deal changing editors.

Wouldn't it defeat the purpose of working with raw files by transferring an UN-raw file to another application and wanting to pick up where you left off?

I would assume you would always keep the raw file, as well, RAW!

Maybe you edit a raw file in Photoshop, and then you decide to take the raw file and edit it in Affinity Photo, but presumably you're always starting with raw.

Um, I'm an IT guy, and I *always* work from the original or things, and I *always* version my work.

99% of computer users just keep writing over their earlier work which is - to put it mildly - stupid.

(At work they want me to use MS Team, but I work offline and on my current spreadsheet am working on SomeSpreadsheet_v127.xls)

Where it is a challenge is learning another app. An app you hopefully like. Or you may be learning several other apps.

@Ray2, yeah, that got lost in the conversation, so let me ask again...

How hard is it to switch between say Photoshop and Affinity Photo, and Graphic Converter, and Pixelmator, and so on?

Do most major photo-editing apps use the same metaphors?

(For those who don't understand the term, a software "metaphor" is an abstract concept that typically represents something well understood by users. For example, you Mac's "trash can" or "desktop" or "dock".)

In word-processing applications, everyone has the concepts of "copy", "paste", "clipboards", "rulers", "headers", "footers", and so on.

So, if I learn the toolbars, palettes, tools, menus, etc. then will that carry over to Affinity Photo for the most part, or will any non-Photoshop app be totally Greek to me?

Switching between MS Excel, and Lotus Notes, and OO Calc, and LO Calc is a piece of cake - unless you are doing advanced things.

You don’t mention DAM, the catalog side. Assume you file within the Finder.

What is "DAM"?

No, I am very 1970's and I do everything through Finder - including watching videos/movies, listening to music, working on spreadsheets, working on photos, etc.

My filing system on my hard-drive is as good as anything that iTunes or Photos can do.

(Maybe that will change if I really get into photo-editing?)

I’m a heavy Lightroom and light Photoshop user. I dislike Adobe as a company and despise subscriptions.

That is why I started this thread!!!

I installed Adobe Photoshop or something on another Mac a couple of years ago, and it just felt like some virus had taken over my hard-drive.

It really bothered me how Adobe sneaks in and places files everywhere on your computer, and I'm not sure you can ever truly get all of that off if you delete the app.

That being said, ANY Adobe product is going to do that, including Lightroom and Adobe Acrobat.

Part of this thread is trying to figure out if it it "taking the leap" and getting sucked into all of that.

(FWIW, I am trying to start a business that will rely heavily on video-content, and by way, need some photo-content as well. But I am not a photographer per se - think of me more as a photojournalist.)

I also strongly dislike the subscription model. One, because I am already going to spend $8,000 - $10,000 with Apple in the next month, and so money is tight. Two, because even though this should be seen as a "cost of doing business", having to pay $50-$60 per month will add up over time. (Of course, if it helps me make mor ethan that per month, I guess who cares?!)

I think I am more concerned about the whole virus/bloatware thing, plus I am very apprehensive about "the Cloud".

I would *never* store my personal photos or videos, and certainly not my business files on the Internet!!

(Supposedly you can work and save local, but that appears to keep changing every other month with Adobe?)

Other than cloud storage and Apple TV+ Lightroom is my only tech related subscription. For $10 a month I get PS, LR Classic, LR Cloudy, a handful of other apps I don’t use, a very nice website builder called Portfolio, some handy sharing focused slide show utilities that do a very nice job and are simple to use and a wealth of support.

One thing I am very interested in is getting Adobe Acrobat Professional.

I have to PDF a lot of news content for my business, and while there are free browser add-ons to do that, I suspect that they pale in comparison to Acrobat professional. (That right there would be worth all of the aggravation I am worried about above.)

My journey was Apple's Aperture, C1 then Lightroom. Aperture no longer exists. Ask yourself how many of the recommended names existed when you were last involved in photography. Ask yourself why all the names that used to exist don’t appear amongst the recommendations. Ask yourself how many times you want to go through this process again.

Enter Adobe's "sell your soul to us for life" subscription model.

THIS is how monopolies work!! (Maybe Congress needs to break up Adobe?) ;-)

You make a VERY GOOD point, @Ray2!!

From the description you provided for images editing flow, I’m not sure why you’re looking at Photoshop. Lightroom Classic might be sufficient. It’s simpler and, for dealing with volumes of files of which few are edited, LR Classic has superb tools for managing an efficient culling and ranking process. Toss in compatibility with PS and best in class DAM and I’d suggest a cursory look at LR Classic.

Is Lightroom Classic a standalone app?

To your points, @Ray2, maybe now would be a good time to describe my use-cases?! *LOL*

Right now, I am going all in to learning videography.

Have shot about 25 TB of video, and when I buy a new M3 Max shortly, I will FINALLY be able to edit all of this video which has been setting idle for the last 4-5 years!

I am building a website and a YouTube channel to display my videos, but related to that, I will need some photos.

Right now, my photos will be for: Web Articles, Stills in Videos, and for Thumbnails.

I am NOT a wedding photography or someone doing portraits!

In addition, I have - quite literally - hundreds of thousands of digital photos that I have taken over the years, that M-A-Y-B-E I should consider editing and publishing before I die - ya think? =)

Also, I am saving up for a Sony a7S iii camera - which may not be the best camera for photography - but it is still pretty darn good!

As such, I can see myself taking much better quality photos in the near future, so I need some tool that will let me get into more advanced stuff like shooting in Log, Color Correcting, Color Grading, etc.

Did I mention that right now all of my video is shot on an iPhone?

Bottom-line: Considering all of the video and photos I shoot daily, I really need to learn how to do advanced video-editing as a common skill on my toolbelt.

Maybe Lightroom would be a good place to start? (But if it is subscription based, I might as well go with Photoshop?)


BTW, to you earlier point, even if software remains for decades, I have always been of the mindset to learn and use the best tools.

I refuse to learn Final Cut Pro, because I can do everything it does and much more (for free) in DaVinci Resolve.

Looking for a long-term solution that allows me to start as a beginner, but grow into more advanced - even professional grade work - down the road.

I also use LR Cloudy. It’s my Apple Photos replacement and is the catalog that serves our family and friends via sharing that 1), works better than Photos and 2), has tools that enable one to publish a slideshow in the manner you want it to flow as opposed to Apple's forced illogical sequencing. Does have OK synchronization with Classic, once you understand it. I doubt if it brings anything to your described needs.

Good luck.

Thanks for all of the thoughts on this topic, @Ray2 !!!