Am I going to go to the dark side?

[bjewett]

Mac wireless is still iffy..

Re: dark side, I have thought of it at times, because ...

Apple still has issues with wireless. I have a macbook pro, and my wife has a macbook, and we sat in an airport and she had connectivity and I ... did not. Restarting, resetting, etc etc did nothing. Doesn't happen all the time but ... I have had wireless problems where she did not, and also (often) where a friend with a windows XP laptop did not. So, just to warn you. I understand some folks with a macbook and Boot Camp and wireless problems have booted their mac into Windows and had wireless problems go away, so it sounds like a software problem in OS X, one I can't believe Apple has not gone after with gusto to fix.

Other than the above and the price difference (and firewire on the new macbooks, though I suspect it is coming back), macs are great, as you know. The Applecare is worth purchasing on their laptops (and perhaps not on their desktops, which are scarily reliable).

 

[Macmel]

Why would anyone choose a Windows computer? Did you forget viruses, system slowdowns, defragging, cleaning out the crapware, reformat and reinstall, Cancel-Or-Allow, crashing, Vista's hardware incompatibilities, blue screens, Plug and Pray, etc. etc. etc.?

Do you remember the system resources hogging anti-virus program running in the background?

You may get a computer for under $500, but what else do you need to buy? In your final cost, be sure to add in the cost of annual antivirus software, Windows specific word processors, DVD burning software, etc. etc. etc.

What's the warranty on the PC? 90 days? How much is the extended warranty? $400? Does it even cover the screen or is that extra $$$$?

Your iPod is either Mac or PC. Plan to backup? Your external backup drive is either Mac or PC (or format it in FAT 32 and deal with the file size restrictions.)

What about getting it repaired? Do you really want to send off the computer and wait WEEKS for it to be repaired and returned to you, only to find that they didn't fix the problem? Did you forget the convenience of going to your local Apple Genius?

What about the hardware? On one Dell I had, they built it with a generic disk drive and didn't have a usable driver available.

Did you happen to check out the top of the Toshiba case - does it REALLY protect the screen or is one hard knock going to result in a broken LCD? Flex it a little bit and see it is solid or not.

Do you remember the hours of waiting on the phone with the PC helpless desk (aka Customer Service) only to find out that the person on the other end is in some forsaken corner of the planet and English is not his primary language?

If you decide to sell it in 3 years, what will the PC be worth? I can pretty much guarantee that the Apple product will hold its value far better than the PC.

Add it up. You can buy Apple quality for slightly more or you can suffer through years of PC hell.

+1 for the refurb MacBook.

So I have an ASUS 17" PC with Vista installed. I paid 600 euros for it (around 750 dollars). On top of that I pay 50 euros a year for my antivirus (which I can install in three computers). I use it for watching videos (some of the players I need are not available or don't work with Mac, like VeohTV plugin, for example), I play games (something you can only do to a limited extent in Macs) and I surf the web (something that you can do on Mac unless you need Explorer, which you do need for certain sites, and there's no current version for Mac).
Can you tell me how exactly any Mac is better suited for my usage?. Can you tell me what are those wonderful things that I need to buy that make my computer more expensive than a Mac?. I live outside the US, in France, and there's no Apple stores here. I would have to send a Mac for repair to concerted retailers that, guess what, also repair PCs. How is it gonna be shorter to repair a Mac than to repair a PC if it's the same guys who do that?.
I have been using a PC for the exact same things for 5 years now and I don't know what you mean by PC hell. In five years I reinstalled XP twice. Hell is having to lose a total of 5 hours in 5 years?. I updated from Panther to Tiger and from Tiger to Leopard in my old Mac, wasting the same amount of time (for no real improvement in computer behaviour).
This guy wants a SECOND computer. A PC is a much cheaper/better option than a Mac for that.
By the way, I have a MBP for work. I need the power and the reliability, but I wouldn't pay 2000 euros for a computer to browse the internet (and anyone who does either has a lot of money or is not very smart).
Please, before attacking Windows without really using it, inform yourself. Does Apple pay you for being such a loyal fan?. Exactly.

 

[r0k]

Consider Aspire One / Ubuntu 8.10

I picked up an Aspire One 160 gig model and very quickly wiped off Windows and installed Ubuntu 8.10. I had some minor driver issues that were solved in under a day. It is an excellent second machine, so much so that I don't carry my macbook to meetings any more. I can take notes and browse the web just fine on my AAO. I also picked up the 7 hour battery. It makes the machine heavier but I can actually get a lot done on it if I need to.

I can also use my Mac from my AAO using VNC. So now that my "office" is moving to the basement I can avoid that long walk by firing up the AAO from suspend and checking my email or VNC'ing into my Macbook. An Ubuntu Netbook is an excellent addition to an all-Mac household. We have all brother and HP network printers and Linux prints to them just fine. It also sees the same SMB shares on our network drives. Basically working just fine. I took my AAO on a trip and at 2 pounds I found it was very handy. I wanted to run a photo slideshow and it worked just fine on battery for over 5 hours.

I did notice that there were times that even my 2 pound AAO wasn't small enough or light enough to have along. My kids had their ipod touch's and were able to get on the net to do simple things. I'm thinking of adding an ipod touch (8 gig model) to my list of "road devices" but the AAO is an excellent "second machine" once you get windows out of your way .

BTW, in all honesty I should admit that the "dark side" isn't exactly the end of the world. On the AAO, there are driver issues and considering they affect wifi they are non trivial. I just prefer Ubuntu so that's what I use. I also run AWN which puts up something that resembles the dock. I should also mention that 600 pixels high isn't really enough for a smooth experience. Most applications are written for 768 minimum window height and quite often buttons are sitting off the screen at the bottom. There are workarounds for these issues over at the aspireoneuser forums but in all fairness I should mention that moving to Ubuntu isn't as seamless as we would all like it to be.

 

[techound1]

A Demi-God on a Mac site liking Linux better than OS X?! Did you take your medication today?!

HeHe. It was the blue one on Thursdays, right?

In all seriousness, I needed something small, light, and cheap for schleping all over creation. Apple doesn't make such an animal. I wrestled with OSX86 on this mini (too many issues with drivers still), and I even broke down and bought a Wind (which OSX86 runs on pretty well). Then it dawned on me that I was getting into the same loop with OSX86 that I was with my unlocked iphone - every update of software meant a hassle with a reinstall (maybe I don't have a full understanding on that...). I figured I'd give ubuntu a spin (who could not at least check out an OS that names itself Ibex and Jackalope and the like?!?!). The software library is amazing, as is the ability to just look up a task and download the ap. GIMP does nearly everything I use photoshop for. I'm getting much more into terminal as well, which is something I've wanted to do with OS X, but never wanted to spend the time repairing things I broke while mucking about. If I kill this netbook (which may or not have already happened one or more times ), I'm not dead in the water because my main machine is still a uniMBP with a cinema display.

 

[ski2moro]

So I have an ASUS 17" PC with Vista installed. I paid 600 euros for it (around 750 dollars). On top of that I pay 50 euros a year for my antivirus (which I can install in three computers). I use it for watching videos (some of the players I need are not available or don't work with Mac, like VeohTV plugin, for example), I play games (something you can only do to a limited extent in Macs) and I surf the web (something that you can do on Mac unless you need Explorer, which you do need for certain sites, and there's no current version for Mac).
Can you tell me how exactly any Mac is better suited for my usage?. Can you tell me what are those wonderful things that I need to buy that make my computer more expensive than a Mac?. I live outside the US, in France, and there's no Apple stores here. I would have to send a Mac for repair to concerted retailers that, guess what, also repair PCs. How is it gonna be shorter to repair a Mac than to repair a PC if it's the same guys who do that?.
I have been using a PC for the exact same things for 5 years now and I don't know what you mean by PC hell. In five years I reinstalled XP twice. Hell is having to lose a total of 5 hours in 5 years?. I updated from Panther to Tiger and from Tiger to Leopard in my old Mac, wasting the same amount of time (for no real improvement in computer behaviour).
This guy wants a SECOND computer. A PC is a much cheaper/better option than a Mac for that.
By the way, I have a MBP for work. I need the power and the reliability, but I wouldn't pay 2000 euros for a computer to browse the internet (and anyone who does either has a lot of money or is not very smart).
Please, before attacking Windows without really using it, inform yourself. Does Apple pay you for being such a loyal fan?. Exactly.

Ah, young Padawan, you didn't read my post closely enough. Read it again and you will understand that I am pointing out the problems that she might encounter, if she were to go to the Dark Side and purchase a Windows-based laptop. She has been a MR member for quite a long time and knows computers. She loves her iMac, has a Powerbook, and doesn't want to order parts for a failing, older computer.

The OP lives in Connecticut, not France, and there are several Apple stores within an hours drive from anywhere in Connecticut. As she has pointed out, she is an un-wed mother with an infant so $$$ are the issue. She wants a 2nd computer for school for note taking and surfing the internet.

She concerned with cost. Price is different from Final Cost. Although the computer she suggests is less costly initially, I tried to remind her that when she purchases a Windows computer, she will have additional costs. (Software, warranty, hardware incompatibilities, repair downtime, and frustration level.)

If she becomes further strapped for cash, I pointed out that the Mac will be easier to sell and worth more in the future than the Windows-based unit she is considering. She is considering a MacBook Air, which is considerably more expensive, therefore I assumed that she is able to pay at least that much. In a different post, she gives additional information to indicate that she cannot spend that much initially.

To address your questions:

The hell comment comes from the common expression "Dell Hell" I just switched to PC Hell for this post.

Your juvenile 'Fanboy' comment... Why do you assume that I have no knowledge of PCs? Every Single Thing that I mentioned to remind the OP about Windows has happened to me or my colleagues while a Windows user. I don't have to make this stuff up.

I have been working on PCs longer than you have been alive (probably). I got my first PC in the mid-eighties. It was an 8086 with 2 5 1/2 floppies. I have owned more than 20 Windows-based PCs before switching to a Mac almost 3 years ago.

I have never been able to restore a Windows computer in under an hour. Just to re-format the hard drive and re-install Windows takes that long. Then, you have to tediously install all the updates, restart, and update some more, restart again, set preferences, install all the 3rd party software, and transfer your backups back to the HD...IF you have the original disks with you. If you did it faster, congratulations, you win the prize.

Your experience with your PC, while interesting, is anecdotal. I'm happy that you are happy with your computer.

I travel a lot and can't be bothered with carrying an underpowered, buggy notebook for surfing. I can do everything I need to do on my 15" MacBook Pro. I use BootCamp for my Windows-based programs and can do everything you do with your PC. I can switch from Mac to PC in a minute. I can update my iPhone and/or my iPod where ever I am, not waiting until I get home to sync it with the other computer. This works for me.

She might get lucky and get a good PC notebook that fits her needs. She asked for opinions and I gave her mine.

I stand by my suggestion that she is better off getting a refurb MacBook than a PC. YMMV

 

[miggitymac]

I have the new revB MBA, and it is simply the most amazing Mac I have ever owned. It is so light, and amazingly portable. At the same time, it's powerful enough to be most peoples only Mac.

Do not get discouraged by anythin you read about the original MBA. The revB is the one to buy. The new MBA has all of the same stuff basically as the MacBook, less the ports and optical drive. Yet its new video card can drive up to a 30" external display making it an instant desktop.

After now being with the new MBA for ten days or so, I am convinced mine is the fastest computer I have ever owned. I have the SSD, but you could go with the 1.6 and HDD and have a great Mac for $1799 minus any discounts. I have played around on netbooks but they are not fun to type a paper on. The keyboards are small, the display is small, the power is not there and they get old fast. I played with one for a day this week and missed my MBA.

If you want a real laptop sized display, yet light and portability and completely amazing, consider the MacBook Air 2.0 (rev B).

Way to completely ignore what the OP said about money issues just so you can brag about your MBA.

 

[Abstract]

Wirelessly posted (Nokia 5800 Tube XpressMusic : Mozilla/5.0 (SymbianOS/9.4; U; Series60/5.0 Nokia5800d-1/10.0.010; Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 ) AppleWebKit/413 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/413)

@ski2moro: To be honest, I don't agree with a lot of what you said either. For example, the top lid flexes on a PC laptop. It's true, but it's just as bad with Macs, particularly PowerBooks and MacBook Pros. The iBook and MacBooks.....same thing. Aluminium flexes more. If she has survived for so long with a PowerBook without issue, she's obviously fine with it. If she went with a plastic PC laptop, she may actually be better protected from such screen damage.

 

[charliex5]

Just another thought...

I've had XP, OSX, and now Windows 7 beta installed on my Acer and of the three 7 runs the fastest. I would definately look into 7 when it comes out if you go the Windows route.

 

[Srai-W]

Just to add my 2 cents - I have used Apples since the late 80's and pc's since like 94 or so and the main problem I have found with Windows is the viruses. I have had issues even whilst keeping the anti-virus up to date. My 12" PB G4 however has never had a problem. Having said that I think the netbook would be fine and have been looking at getting one myself for some time now. I would definitely go with XP though, but I am thinking when Windows 7 comes out, it may be ok with netbooks. The Air is good, but I personally cannot justify paying so much more - even a refurb is like 3 times the price of one of the "better" netbooks...

 

[jadekitty24]

Quite honestly I was suckered in by the Airbooks' gorgeous looks...but like always common sense prevailed. For what it has it would fit my needs. But the cost for what I get? I just wish I could afford that. I settled on a Toshiba L305-S5921, which I got an incredible deal on...only $300 with the OS Vista, which I may or may not stick with. A far cry from the $1000 for a refurb Mac. Let me just state, I am not "switching". Some of the comments in this thread kind of seem to alude to that. I just needed an addition and was asking my trusted MR folks for any experiences with said options. Trust me, my iMac will still get the hours of use per day it already gets.

Thank you all so very much for taking the time to give your input!

 

[jadekitty24]

Just an update here. I received the Toshiba and am not disappointed with it. It was a bit of a pain in the ass to set up the internet connection...not something I'm used to since Macs are so easy in that regard. But going from a 12" Powerbook to a 15.4" Toshiba is one hell of an adjustment. This thing is freaking huge. I'm pleased with the performance. Even though it is loaded with crap that I do not want it is still pretty damn zippy. Yet it isn't OSX!! If this was to be my main machine I may have gone as far as to whore myself out to get a Mac. Everything is so different with Windows. For my needs it will suffice and then some, but I hope the next time I need a machine I can afford a Mac. Just 'cuz I love me some Mac...

 

[jodelli]

Just chipping in here. For the basics (Open Office, Firefox, etc) Ubuntu will run nicely right out of its non-existent box and you don't have the security hassles.

And I've customized a Linux desktop to be nearly indistinguishable from OSX from just a few feet away, including transparent, multiple 'docks', which are know as panels in Ubuntu.

 

[janstett]

I use a couple of Linux distros (Fedora, gOS (which is Debian based), etc.) and it still just isn't ready for prime time. I would not give my mother a Linux machine.

Yes it has come light years from where it used to be. But there are still huge problems.

- Package management is good but overwhelming to a noob -- are they really going to know/care/understand what GTK+ is? I'm an expert and I've gotten my package manager hosed by manually trying to work out dependencies for something I'm trying to compile. If they manually download an RPM and it doesn't install properly, you have to drop down to a bash shell to get it working. My mom isn't going to do that. And god forbid you have to compile it yourself from source. No freaking way.

- Wireless setup -- Linux makes Windows look well thought out by comparison. I have yet to see a distro that (1) makes it easy to turn on the wireless and (2) discover available networks. You have to go digging in the intimidating network control panel and type in your ssid.

- Mapping shares (Samba) and connecting to network printers -- ack, it makes me sweat.

Linux just isn't ready to be given to a noob without committing to support them yourself.

Given that, it really makes me appreciate the job Apple did with OSX, grafting such a great UI *and* something compatible with old apps on top of BSD. OSX is what you get when you do it right. Linux is what you get when, well, you know.