Am I the only one that sees the frame skipping?

[jajohns8]

That is exactly my point. I will be the first to admit that I do not know what is going on or how widespread this will turn out to be. Anything could end up happening. I specifically said that no one knows for sure what is going on yet, as it is too early. And yes, this includes both me and you. Unless you have supernatural powers, which you do not, then you also do not know.

Why is it that I can admit not knowing and being open to all outcomes, yet you can't?

LOL. Because I see the stutter.
(Well, me, and all the other people that have similar testing conditions.)

 

[jajohns8]

Here is exactly how I encode:

1. Blu-ray -> Aunsoft Blu Ray Ripper -> Disk Copy (This makes a full copy of the blu ray folders).

2. Using the blu ray folders from step 1 in the source, I use the following settings:

Format: H.264 HD Video(*.mp4)
Codec Name: h264
Size: Original
Bit Rate: Original
Frame Rate: Original

If the movie has subtitles (30 Days of Night, Avatar, Lord of the Rings) I click the english track and check "Forced Subtitles".

The audio is set automatically by the settings above and then I click the box that says "Merge into one file" and then I begin encoding. (Note: The merge into one file box doesn't seem to do anything).

Once it rips, I simply drag it into iTunes, and add the new cover art.

It then shows up into my Apple TV, I let the buffer fully load (even though I can watch it instantly with the same results) and there is no frame skipping. I am watching Avatar as we speak and it looks amazing. I watched Terminator Salvation and Lord of the Rings earlier today and both looked fantastic.

As for my setup:

Server: Mac Pro tower (the one in my sig)
Network: Wireless N w/ WPA2 encryption
Router: Apple Airport Extreme

The Apple TV is hooked to either my 56inch (maybe 52 inch?) Mitsubishi DLP TV through HDMI. It also gets hooked to the TV in my bedroom which is a 32 inch insignia in my room through HDMI.

The router and the computers are all on the same floor and very close to each other.

I've tried HD from iTunes store, plus my tower and I can't reproduce the problem wether I let the video buffer or not.

For standard content such as Family Guy DVDs I use Handbrake and just use the Apple TV preset.

I tried ripping a few SD movies too last night just to see if I could reproduce the problem with them, I could not.

My Dad uses the same setup I have and he has no problems. His computer is farther from his router (one is on the second floor, the other is on the first floor) and he has an iMac not a Mac Pro tower. His HD file sizes aren't huge like mine are and he actually rips them only to 720P.

As for my three friends, I will have to get with them and see their setups.

Chrono,
Actually, after more careful reading, I do have a few questions.

You said your father 'only rips to 720P.'

What exactly does that mean? (I know what 720p is, just asking what the statement implies.)

Do you rip to something higher? Something higher that plays back on the ATV2?

SO what does size, bitrate and frame rate end up being on your AVatar bluray?
Do you then process the resulting 'single file' with handbrake?

 

[DJinTX]

LOL. Because I see the stutter.
(Well, me, and all the other people that have similar testing conditions.)

When I say that you should be open to all possibilities , I am not suggesting that it is possible that you don't actually have the problem. I do not believe you are imagining it. I believe that you and others have a noticeable stutter/frame drop issue. I am even open to the possibility that my ATV has the issue and I haven't experienced it. But they key for me is that I have not experienced it at this point, which is all that matters to me on an individual level. And I am happy about that.

It seems to me from your comments that the only possibility you will consider as being true is that all ATV units do this. I agree in theory that this is one of the possibilities, but it is also possible that there could be a range of serial numbers affected, or several ranges affected. It is not a given that all ATV units have to be affected just because some are.

 

[jajohns8]

When I say that you should be open to all possibilities , I am not suggesting that it is possible that you don't actually have the problem. I do not believe you are imagining it. I believe that you and others have a noticeable stutter/frame drop issue. I am even open to the possibility that my ATV has the issue and I haven't experienced it. But they key for me is that I have not experienced it at this point, which is all that matters to me on an individual level. And I am happy about that.

It seems to me from your comments that the only possibility you will consider as being true is that all ATV units do this. I agree in theory that this is one of the possibilities, but it is also possible that there could be a range of serial numbers affected, or several ranges affected. It is not a given that all ATV units have to be affected just because some are.

Sure, anything is possible. I concede that.

I'll restate it that it is 'my opinion' that all Apple TV 2s are affected.

I actually have a case open with apple. I'll let you guys know how it all pans out.

 

[chrono1081]

Chrono,
Actually, after more careful reading, I do have a few questions.

You said your father 'only rips to 720P.'

What exactly does that mean? (I know what 720p is, just asking what the statement implies.)

He changes the size in the Aunsoft software to 1280 * 720 but keeps all of the other settings the same as I do. He just likes the smaller file size since his computer doesn't have a ton of space. I usually rip at original size since I watch movies on my computer while working on projects.

Do you rip to something higher? Something higher that plays back on the ATV2?

I keep my settings all on the "Original" setting but that ends up being by the looks of things 1920 * 1080 since I can't see the difference between the Original setting and the 1920 * 1080 setting (makes sense since its blu ray but I tried just for the heck of it). Now maybe iTunes does something with the file when it streams it to ATV but when I drag it into iTunes its 1920 * 1080

SO what does size, bitrate and frame rate end up being on your Avatar bluray?
Do you then process the resulting 'single file' with handbrake?

Unfortunately I can't figure out a way to see these. I simply choose the "original" setting in Aunsoft. :/

EDIT: Quicktime Pro lets me see these settings:

Format: H.264, 1920 x 1080, Millions
AAC, 5.1 (C L R Ls Rs LFE), 48.000 kHz
FPS: 23.98
Data Size: 10.48 GB
Data Rate: 9.28 mbits/s

I can't find a way to see the bitrate. I do not do anything in Handbrake with my Blu-ray rips. I simply use the file straight from Aunsoft. I only use Handbrake if I rip something that is SD which is rare. Often its only my Family Guy dvds I rip in handbrake.

 

[jajohns8]

He changes the size in the Aunsoft software to 1280 * 720 but keeps all of the other settings the same as I do. He just likes the smaller file size since his computer doesn't have a ton of space. I usually rip at original size since I watch movies on my computer while working on projects.



I keep my settings all on the "Original" setting but that ends up being by the looks of things 1920 * 1080 since I can't see the difference between the Original setting and the 1920 * 1080 setting (makes sense since its blu ray but I tried just for the heck of it). Now maybe iTunes does something with the file when it streams it to ATV but when I drag it into iTunes its 1920 * 1080



Unfortunately I can't figure out a way to see these. I simply choose the "original" setting in Aunsoft. :/

EDIT: Quicktime Pro lets me see these settings:

Format: H.264, 1920 x 1080, Millions
AAC, 5.1 (C L R Ls Rs LFE), 48.000 kHz
FPS: 23.98
Data Size: 10.48 GB
Data Rate: 9.28 mbits/s

I can't find a way to see the bitrate. I do not do anything in Handbrake with my Blu-ray rips. I simply use the file straight from Aunsoft. I only use Handbrake if I rip something that is SD which is rare. Often its only my Family Guy dvds I rip in handbrake.

Something is wrong here.

The ATV 2 is only spec'd to play 720p.

Check the specs yourself on the official ATV page.

Not calling you a 'liar', but something is clearly weird here, or I am misunderstanding something about your process.

I am pretty sure you cannot pump 1920 x 1080P through the Apple TV.

(If that's what you are saying is happening.)

 

[DJinTX]

Sure, anything is possible. I concede that.

I'll restate it that it is 'my opinion' that all Apple TV 2s are affected.

I actually have a case open with apple. I'll let you guys know how it all pans out.

I'm glad you finally understand where I am coming from.

 

[jajohns8]

I'm glad you finally understand where I am coming from.

Just promise me, 'if' and when it happens, you'll let me know.

 

[chrono1081]

Something is wrong here.

The ATV 2 is only spec'd to play 720p.

Check the specs yourself on the official ATV page.

Not calling you a 'liar', but something is clearly weird here, or I am misunderstanding something about your process.

I am pretty sure you cannot pump 1920 x 1080P through the Apple TV.

(If that's what you are saying is happening.)

I think iTunes or ATV converts it to 720 along the way. Originally I ripped the video twice, once for 720p for the ATV and once for 1080p for watching on my computer but after seeing a few threads where 1080p was playing on ATVs I decided to try it and it works. Now I only rip once.

There is a thread floating around here somewhere that talks about what either iTunes or the ATV does with 1080p files. Its fairly recent. I remember seeing it a few days ago.

EDIT: Looks like iTunes automatically converts it. I just deleted Lord of the Rings and reimported the 1920 x 1080p rip into iTunes, after import the file in iTunes shows the dimensions of 1280 x 720p

EDIT2: Oh now this is weird. I just drug Avatar at 1080p in and it didn't resize....wtf??? Its still 1080p...Lord of the Rings is definitely 1080p in the file I have, and 720 in iTunes...

 

[newagemac]

I've personally never heard of iTunes converting a file automatically when importing it. Plus if the file was converted from 1080 to 720 you would know because the process takes several hours and is very processor intensive. Are you sure your software is not ripping Blu Ray to 720p files? How long does it take?

As a sidenote, you have me interested in the Aunsoft Blu Ray ripper. Does it create an AC3 5.1 track for the Apple TV as well as an AAC stereo track for use on an iPhone/iPad?

 

[chrono1081]

I've personally never heard of iTunes converting a file automatically when importing it. Plus if the file was converted from 1080 to 720 you would know because the process takes several hours and is very processor intensive. Are you sure your software is not ripping Blu Ray to 720p files? How long does it take?

As a sidenote, you have me interested in the Aunsoft Blu Ray ripper. Does it create an AC3 5.1 track for the Apple TV as well as an AAC stereo track for use on an iPhone/iPad?

Oh I'm an idiot! I messed up bad! I mixed my 1080p and 720p files by accident and had 720p files in the 1080p folder (hence the 1080 to 720p thing with Lord of the Rings.) iTunes WILL NOT CONVERT the files and neither will Apple TV. Even though there was a thread somewhere on Mac Rumors saying they could, I just tested with a definite 1080p file and it will not.

I have both 1080p and 720p in my iTunes since I sync movies to my iPad so the ATV2 has been playing my 720ps since those are the ones with album art. Sorry for the confusion 😱 Now I have to re-rip about 10 blu-rays that I only ripped at 1080p 🙁
I would have never of caught this if I didn't go test just now🙄 That would have been embarrassing when friends come over and I wanted to watch one of the 1080p movies 😛

Ok, the 720p files were the ones playing on the ATV the whole time and they play just fine with my setup and my encode settings. In the settings I listed a few responses back, just substitute the "original" size to "720p" and everything else is still the exact same.

As for the AC3 5.1 channel it does have the option under the Audio tab for that channel and you can use AAC if you go under the options. I'm not too good with audio settings so I'm not totally sure what all this means but I do see options to change to them.

 

[chrono1081]

Here is the file information for that Avatar rip for the 720p version:

Size: 4.99 GB
Bit Rate: 319 KBPS
Channels: Multi
Encoded with: Lavf52.32.0
Total Bit Rate: 4316 kbps
Video Dimensions: 1280 x 720
Video Codec: H.264

 

[BlackMangoTree]

This can't be a encoding issue because Apple would not encode their movies in the wrong way.

 

[jajohns8]

Oh I'm an idiot! I messed up bad! I mixed my 1080p and 720p files by accident and had 720p files in the 1080p folder (hence the 1080 to 720p thing with Lord of the Rings.) iTunes WILL NOT CONVERT the files and neither will Apple TV. Even though there was a thread somewhere on Mac Rumors saying they could, I just tested with a definite 1080p file and it will not.

I have both 1080p and 720p in my iTunes since I sync movies to my iPad so the ATV2 has been playing my 720ps since those are the ones with album art. Sorry for the confusion 😱 Now I have to re-rip about 10 blu-rays that I only ripped at 1080p 🙁
I would have never of caught this if I didn't go test just now🙄 That would have been embarrassing when friends come over and I wanted to watch one of the 1080p movies 😛

Ok, the 720p files were the ones playing on the ATV the whole time and they play just fine with my setup and my encode settings. In the settings I listed a few responses back, just substitute the "original" size to "720p" and everything else is still the exact same.

As for the AC3 5.1 channel it does have the option under the Audio tab for that channel and you can use AAC if you go under the options. I'm not too good with audio settings so I'm not totally sure what all this means but I do see options to change to them.

I have heard that the new ATV can 'down convert' material, so I was wondering if that was coming in to play here.

 

[jajohns8]

This can't be a encoding issue because Apple would not encode their movies in the wrong way.

In my talk with apple support, this has been the only compelling argument.

He stated that he would only escalate my case if it was shown that Itunes material was stuttering.

He said that there are 2 many variables with personal encodes.

I am still in tech support limbo, but will report back my findings.

 

[DJinTX]

Just promise me, 'if' and when it happens, you'll let me know.

Don't worry, I am definitely not shy about expressing frustration with issues I am having, and even posting the occasional rant. I am sure Apple is working on fixes for many bugs in the new ATV, including this, so they may fix it before I see it. But if I do notice it I will let you know.

Personally, I am most interested in seeing a fix for the occasional resolution issues during movie trailers and on the home screen, as well as bringing back album artwork as a screensaver, and a better organization for TV shows.

Overall I am very happy, but I am ready for a software update that makes everything work smoother. It is a good first implementation on iOS, but there is room for improvement.

 

[BlackMangoTree]

In my talk with apple support, this has been the only compelling argument.

He stated that he would only escalate my case if it was shown that Itunes material was stuttering.

He said that there are 2 many variables with personal encodes.

I am still in tech support limbo, but will report back my findings.

2 many variables ? with what ?

The fact that they play perfectly on every single device ever made and only crap out on the Apple TV 2.

What a joke Apple has become.

We bought 2 ATV's the one i bought i sent back for a refund my bro still has hope Apple will fix this.

Where is Apples quality Control ? Did they even test the unit ? if they did it was with their eyes shut.

The two most important things are video playback and subtitles and neither work.

"It just works" my arse it does, what a joke.

 

[jajohns8]

2 many variables ? with what ?

The fact that they play perfectly on every single device ever made and only crap out on the Apple TV 2.

What a joke Apple has become.

We bought 2 ATV's the one i bought i sent back for a refund my bro still has hope Apple will fix this.

Where is Apples quality Control ? Did they even test the unit ? if they did it was with their eyes shut.

The two most important things are video playback and subtitles and neither work.

"It just works" my arse it does, what a joke.

During my conversation, he only said that they would be 'willing to escalate this case' if it were shown that Itunes content were affected.

We may or may not agree with this, but that is what I have been told for my case.

Maybe another technical support person would handle it differently, but that is what the person handling my case is telling me.

While I agree, it is really sad that the Apple TV 1 and all of my other hardware plays back 'X' Handbrake encode without the stutter, Apple can't verify that.

They "can't follow a methodical process to validate" why personal encodes are stuttering. (according to the technical support rep.)
There are millions of personal encode permutations. As frustrating as it is, I do understand his logic. I feel as though I have ruled out the encoded content as the source of the problem. They want to prove that themselves, though.

What they CAN do is take data that the stutter affects their Itunes store content.
They control (or have access to the tech details of) the encode process for that.

So, blackmangotree, have you called apple support and gotten a case number?

If not, make sure you make your case with clear examples of ITunes content stuttering.

 

[benoitgphoto]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

This can't be a encoding issue because Apple would not encode their movies in the wrong way.

In my talk with apple support, this has been the only compelling argument.

He stated that he would only escalate my case if it was shown that Itunes material was stuttering.

He said that there are 2 many variables with personal encodes.

I am still in tech support limbo, but will report back my findings.

I can tell you it's happening on HD rentals from iTunes store directly from Apple TV . I have a case number with Apple Care and they will call me back on Thursday to test different things.

Also, the guy told me that they do not take data from their forums as there are too much unreliable information. Best way to escalate it is to contact them...

 

[jajohns8]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)



I can tell you it's happening on HD rentals from iTunes store directly from Apple TV . I have a case number with Apple Care and they will call me back on Thursday to test different things.

Also, the guy told me that they do not take data from their forums as there are too much unreliable information. Best way to escalate it is to contact them...

Yes, sounds like we might have the same guy. He said the same things about their forums, but would still attach the link to the official apple support forum to the case, in case it could be helpful.

I spent some time on the phone testing various things with him, and ultimately their response is to bring it in to an "authorized apple service center' with an HDMI HD Television set that is known to work with the device.

 

[BlackMangoTree]

So, blackmangotree, have you called apple support and gotten a case number?

I have called Apple Care i wasn't given a case number or anything, I was told that it is a known issue and it's being looked into and all i can do for now is send feedback via their website.

I should and will give them another call.

I expect everything to play perfectly just like it does on the ATV1, iPhone, iPad, Macbook and iMac, why is it that it just craps out on the AppleTV2.

I wont have time today but definitely tomorrow i will call them again.

THIS IS POOR FROM APPLE.

 

[ssspinball]

No your not the only one and you will have those who don't even see the issue even though it is there. I saw it on 3 different units that the owners did not see it. Of course after pointing it out they did and now want a fix.

I have already tested 5 units and it seems to be a buffer issue. In every one of my tests the jitter started right after the HD TV Shows buffered completely. Rebooting the system after that fixed the issue. The TV Shows remained fully buffered after reboot and playback was 100% jitter free. Full length movies will not remain completely in buffer after rebooting but the jitter goes away until the buffer completes again.

[Emphasis added]

This right here is the most telling post in this thread. 3 owners of 3 different units didn't think they had an issue until it was pointed out to them in person.

This is a widespread problem. If you don't notice it, then be thankful as it's annoying to those of us that do.

This product seems to have a whole lot of software bugs (for Apple, anyway). I sure hope its "hobby" status doesn't mean that lots of them won't get fixed soon. 🙁 I like it a lot other than these bugs.

 

[rz22g]

I have heard that the new ATV can 'down convert' material, so I was wondering if that was coming in to play here.

Oh I'm an idiot! I messed up bad! I mixed my 1080p and 720p files by accident and had 720p files in the 1080p folder (hence the 1080 to 720p thing with Lord of the Rings.) iTunes WILL NOT CONVERT the files and neither will Apple TV. Even though there was a thread somewhere on Mac Rumors saying they could, I just tested with a definite 1080p file and it will not.

No neither converts the 1080p content but since the New TV is 720p only, it is down sampled to 720 p. I have a couple 1080p movies converted from BluRay that play. In addition the 1080p content from my 7D plays untouched on the New TV.

There is a performance hit when the source is 1080p that might not bother some but is enough that I prefer converting the video to 720p. Makes me wonder if the New TV has the power to actually handle 1080p if they were to add support later via firmware.

 

[rz22g]

[Emphasis added]

This right here is the most telling post in this thread. 3 owners of 3 different units didn't think they had an issue until it was pointed out to them in person.

This is a widespread problem. If you don't notice it, then be thankful as it's annoying to those of us that do.

This product seems to have a whole lot of software bugs (for Apple, anyway). I sure hope its "hobby" status doesn't mean that lots of them won't get fixed soon. 🙁 I like it a lot other than these bugs.

Yes I felt kind of bad after pointing it out since they were actually enjoying their new toys. One did say he thought he noticed it prior to me pointing it out but thought it was just a skip in the movie from encoding but once I rewinded and showed that it did not happen on the replay he understood more about what I was saying. He then started pointing out even subtle jitters as we continued to watch.

 

[newagemac]

Oh I'm an idiot! I messed up bad! I mixed my 1080p and 720p files by accident and had 720p files in the 1080p folder (hence the 1080 to 720p thing with Lord of the Rings.) iTunes WILL NOT CONVERT the files and neither will Apple TV. Even though there was a thread somewhere on Mac Rumors saying they could, I just tested with a definite 1080p file and it will not.

I have both 1080p and 720p in my iTunes since I sync movies to my iPad so the ATV2 has been playing my 720ps since those are the ones with album art. Sorry for the confusion 😱 Now I have to re-rip about 10 blu-rays that I only ripped at 1080p 🙁
I would have never of caught this if I didn't go test just now🙄 That would have been embarrassing when friends come over and I wanted to watch one of the 1080p movies 😛

Ok, the 720p files were the ones playing on the ATV the whole time and they play just fine with my setup and my encode settings. In the settings I listed a few responses back, just substitute the "original" size to "720p" and everything else is still the exact same.

As for the AC3 5.1 channel it does have the option under the Audio tab for that channel and you can use AAC if you go under the options. I'm not too good with audio settings so I'm not totally sure what all this means but I do see options to change to them.

This is just further proof that the whole 720p vs 1080p thing is much ado about nothing. You basically did a blind test on yourself without knowing it and thought you were watching 1080p when it was in fact 720p! 😀