Actually - I'm fairly sure the EULA will state that they have exactly that right, and buy buying and using a Kindle, you are agreeing to that EULA.
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Amazon deletes George Orwell books from users' Kindles
- Thread starter apfhex
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Actually - I'm fairly sure the EULA will state that they have exactly that right, and buy buying and using a Kindle, you are agreeing to that EULA.
I read the NY Times article. I don't think it puts a negative spin on it. Copyright disputes are nothing new. What's new here is a company breaking into your own device at home and stealing your possessions from you.
And yes, a book that you paid for is your own possession.
I'm seeing in a few tech blogs that people claim that Apple has also removed apps from people's iPhones or ipods. I can't recall that ever happening, but I could be wrong. There's been lots of apps pulled from the store - PdaNet etc, but not (I think) from people's own phones after purchase.
And yes, a book that you paid for is your own possession.
I'm seeing in a few tech blogs that people claim that Apple has also removed apps from people's iPhones or ipods. I can't recall that ever happening, but I could be wrong. There's been lots of apps pulled from the store - PdaNet etc, but not (I think) from people's own phones after purchase.
The NY Times article clearly reports that Amazon has already acknowledged that this was wrong and is going to fix it:
Just like people have absolutely no right to steal music
And yet, people do anyway.If they weren't allowed to distribute, then the only thing they could do is remove the books. It was a hard decision to make for Amazon I am sure, because either way there would be backlash. But protecting the creative rights of the publisher and author, should be the most important thing - otherwise people will not want to be creative and publish in the first place anymore.
Still love my kindle and my free ebooks and classics. Why badmouth a piece of technology that gives people the opportunity to read more? As if reading was a bad thing? And Amazon could be for ebooks as Asus was for the netbook - pushing the envelope for the development of cheaper forms of that technology to ultimately spread reading and literature throughout the world. Not irrelevant.
Actually - if you read the article and/or read Amazon's EULA for the Kindle you'll notice that it gives the end user the right to retain a permanent copy of the digital content the user purchased and Amazon does *not* reserve the right to remove content digital content from a person's Kindle.
Lethal
For now...
The technology is clearly there. That is one of the reasons why studios chose Blu-ray over HD DVD, DRM...
I know that all my recently purchased Blu-ray titles, when I insert them into my PS3, my PS3 starts accessing the Internet before playing the movie...
I'm pretty damn sure that Amazon would do this in Iran or China right now if the situation would arise. And that makes me worry what happens down the road in this country. This stuff needs to be legislated and whatever the law is needs to be clearly communicated so that people can make informed choices.
No, the EULA at the time did not reserve such a right for Amazon. They may have changed it after this fiasco.
This will only result in even more people incorrectly referencing 1984 in regard to political events without actually having read the book
What are you talking about? Ignorance and indignation is a great combination. Works for me.
i use the kindle software on my iphone. but only for some easy science fiction reading where i actually don't care if the books get deleted.
but this incident convinced me not to buy a kindle. i though about buying one if the rumors about apples touch pad with kindle software turn out to be wrong. but now i think i'll wait and see how this plays out before i invest into a platform that doesn't give me ownership of my books.
for videos i think renting is ok because i rarely watch them twice. but music and books are a permanent value to me and i want to keep them.
but this incident convinced me not to buy a kindle. i though about buying one if the rumors about apples touch pad with kindle software turn out to be wrong. but now i think i'll wait and see how this plays out before i invest into a platform that doesn't give me ownership of my books.
for videos i think renting is ok because i rarely watch them twice. but music and books are a permanent value to me and i want to keep them.
Well, if you can do it on a LAN, level... WAN and Internet is a given...
In other threads, there's the argument of why bother buying TV Shows/Movies on DVD or Blu-ray, just download them...
This thread is why....
Not quite. Staff computers belong to the company. All the work and content and files on them belong to the company. I legally possess all the passwords and have full admin rights to staff computers. I have greater rights of access and control to a staffer's computer than the staffer themselves.
With a Kindle, you've bought it with your own money and keep it in your home or on you. It doesn't belong to Amazon any more. For Amazon to go into it and delete something you've bought without asking you is the same as breaking and entering.
Just as I would be most upset if someone outside the company, (or a staffer themselves) were to enter the LAN and start mucking about with the files. Or if Apple were to apply a software update that changed certain things without asking me first.
It's worse in this case, as Amazon has also deleted the work that students have put into notating and marking up their 1984 files. That's clearly going over the boundary of polite behaviour.
I do agree that the 1984 file is technically stolen property, but there are clearly defined procedures for when a company accidentally and unknowingly sells on stolen property to an innocent customer. These involve police action, and polite legal requests to the innocent customer, and giving them time to make alternative arrangements.
Not just breaking and entering and deleting anything else that might have been attached to the stolen property.
I've actually been on the fence about buying a Kindle (I have one on loan to play with though). This news makes me less inclined to buy one. I've purchased 2 books for the Kindle iPhone app but I'll probably stop now. I really think they should have sucked it up and paid the publisher some large fee and removed the book from their site but not the Kindles. Between this and the hidden amount of times you can redownload content it makes me very wary.
I'm not Amazon, but what I would have done is:
a) pull it from the site and not sell any more
b) go to a publisher with legal rights to sell a digital 1984, and buy the same number of licences as copies of 1984 that have been unlawfully sold.
c) assign these licences to the existing 1984 purchasers, making them legal.
d) seek to recover costs from the shady publisher.
If (b) is not possible (no legal digital download exists, or there is some other legal hassle) and the files MUST be deleted, then
i. Contact purchasers, inform them of the situation, and warn them the files will need to be deleted.
ii. Warn them any notes associated with the files will also be deleted.
iii. Offer a tool to store notes separately (if possible)
iv. Give a refund AND a paper copy of 1984 to be posted to them.
v. Give them time to transfer the notes manually from the Kindle to the paper version. 28 days is enough.
vi. Only now do the deletion.
a) pull it from the site and not sell any more
b) go to a publisher with legal rights to sell a digital 1984, and buy the same number of licences as copies of 1984 that have been unlawfully sold.
c) assign these licences to the existing 1984 purchasers, making them legal.
d) seek to recover costs from the shady publisher.
If (b) is not possible (no legal digital download exists, or there is some other legal hassle) and the files MUST be deleted, then
i. Contact purchasers, inform them of the situation, and warn them the files will need to be deleted.
ii. Warn them any notes associated with the files will also be deleted.
iii. Offer a tool to store notes separately (if possible)
iv. Give a refund AND a paper copy of 1984 to be posted to them.
v. Give them time to transfer the notes manually from the Kindle to the paper version. 28 days is enough.
vi. Only now do the deletion.
although this is a very good way to do this it still doesn't solve the problem for me that i don't own my books. the fact that they will delete my books when they think it's necessary is enough to not buy a kindle or invest in kindle books.
in addition to that I heard (don't have a quote, sorry, so please confirm) that people who had trouble with amazon unrelated to kindle got their amazon accounts cancelled. with that they lost access to all their kindle library.
for e.g. you have a dispute over a DVD and you refuse to pay. then amazon can cancel your account. with that you loose $1000 or so in kindle books because you can't access your books anymore.
all this sounds not very good to me. with apples itunes DRM you could at least burn your music to CD and reimport it.
I agree. Amazon was in a tough position, and ended up making a bad call, which they now regret. Stuff happens.
Can you lend or sell the books you've purchased through Kindle? If not, then you do not really own those books anyways even of they cannot delete them.
true, but I'm willing to make that sacrifice for getting the books for $10 and protecting the publishers from piracy.
but that they can easily delete them makes the difference for me.
i guess i won't buy a kindle and limit myself to buying only very rarely some junk scifi for my iphone kindle app (like i buy paperbacks on the airport for a flight).
i was planning on buying kindle versions for many of my books that i own as hardcopies already to have the convenience of having them with me all the time. i like to be able to continue reading a book wherever I am.
Fascinating reading. Also some amusing names there. One of the groups in the class action is the 'Big Brother Class', with of course, the 'Big Brother Work-Product SubClass.'
Just for the sake of irony they should have deleted anything but 1984, besides crass they are also illiterate.
FYI for anyone actually directly affected by this gaffe, a peace offering from Amazon:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/04/amazon_pay_off/
Apparently in addition to having previously been credited for the book purchase price.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/04/amazon_pay_off/
Apparently in addition to having previously been credited for the book purchase price.