Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Amazon Hints at Extended-Reality Device as Apple Readies Mixed-Reality Headset
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I get the feeling this will be the 3D TV of this decade - no one is going to pay 3 grand to walk around with this on their face
My point is that there were PDAs in the 90's, a decade or more before the iPhone. They were niche devices that cost a few hundred dollars. (though portable music players and pocketable cameras were popular at that time, and maybe that would be a fairer comparison)
You said "The fundamental problem with VR isn’t the price"
I agree.
I'm a VR enthusiast. I got the first modern consumer VR kit the first day it was available, back in 2016. I think they are missing capabilities necessary to make them mass-market devices. But if those capabilities can be reached, I think the market for VR could be quite large, if not smartphone large.
I think they need to be much more comfortable. I should be able to wear it for several hours without it bothering me any more than a pair of headphones or a baseball cap would.
The resolution needs to be good enough to at least simulate a non-retina monitor at an average viewing distance. (and eventually retina-level)
The optics need to be clear from edge to edge, without having to make constant manual adjustments, while also providing a wider field of view than today's average VR headset. I think this will be of the more difficult challenges.
VR has interesting uses right now, but I think when VR is just as capable as a desktop computer with a multi-monitor setup, but can also augment that with new capabilities that VR brings, I think VR will become more compelling for a lot more people.
For the masses, it did seemingly come out of nowhere. But I do want to recall there was plenty of scuttlebutt on these forums, leading up to the reveal. I know because there finally seemed an end in sight for the Mac user who also wanted a smart phone that played nice with their Mac. At that time, the only Mac-friendly smart phone was the Palm Teo 650. I had one. It sucked. But it sync'd with my Mac, so...
I also know there was scuttlebutt here because I had already started saving for whatever it was Apple had up their sleeve when Steve stepped on stage that day. And to see that they delivered beyond my wildest expectation was just a moment and sensation I will likely never forget (he says, as he looks fondly over to his recently secured Grid-1).
I also recall being in line at the Aspen Grove Apple Store on launch day. The energy was through the roof. Peak Apple. I raced home to open the packaging and start the refreshing and intuitive process of activating the phone (classic Apple). It seems odd now, but there was a time when you had to spend no less than 2 hours in a cellular carrier's store activating your new handheld. This was a paradigm shift. And another moment I'll likely never forget.
Anyway, surprise or other, it was certainly a tectonic moment in history ushering a hyper connected world. Warts and all.
Those were the days. I was tuning in to hear about this cool new thing called Apple TV, and we got iPhone.
As a consumer, I’m intrigued. But as a professional in the workforce, I think this has a lot of potential to make some serious headway in terms of training with a hands-on approach with AR/VR.
What we really need to see, is actual demos of this product, because there’s too much speculation of the people that consistently whine of “I don’t need this, I don’t want this”. So we need to see some real world applications to move this project forward to gain some momentum.
What we really need to see, is actual demos of this product, because there’s too much speculation of the people that consistently whine of “I don’t need this, I don’t want this”. So we need to see some real world applications to move this project forward to gain some momentum.
Until we solve the problem of digitally sensing facial expressions (eyebrows raised, smile, scowl, eye-roll) and hand gestures, how exactly will we interact with other remote people using goggles? Sure there are many uses cases like games, training, viewing that don't require social interaction, but that is exactly why these will remain a niche.
I don't understand. Within the realm of AR, what it the "it" you are referring to? And how are you making whatever "it" is, worse?
Spot on. That's why I believe Apple after working with Stanford University's VR/AR laboratory since 2016 will result in a suite of applications that will be delivered with Apple's device that will help solve real problems. And also provide frameworks or AR app-builder software so that companies and people can easily/quickly develop their own AR applications to assist with their projects.
"because there’s too much speculation of the people that consistently whine of “I don’t need this, I don’t want this”."
Sadly yes. Some people simply lack basic curiosity and imagination and need to be hand held with respect to AR potential assisting in tasks.
I love the Stanford campus! There's always such interesting people and events going on
Apparently Steve’s inspiration for Apple Park was the main quad
There were definitely rumors of a touch screen iPod, and that they were “working” on a phone, but it was still a shock — still one of the best, if not these best product presentations made. I think whatever they have in store for AR/VR will be similar — we have heard rumors that they have been working on it, but we don’t know what it looks like, what it will do, and how big of a market this is. Judging by the investment being made in this technology, it will be a bigger market than what most are anticipating.
By having to wear augmented reality devices on your face for long periods of time. Instead of just having a phone or screen in your pocket. It’s worse to be in a room of people with AR devices on their faces “enhancing” their environments instead of a smartphone. That’s what I meant by it being worse than a smartphone.
I also definitely see the advantages and I am in tech. So I have the vision. But I also have the vision of what smartphone usage has done to many people and children. As useful as it will be, and it will be, AR will be abused and overused by the general public.
Yeah. Time will tell, but I really think the "nobody wants VR/AR" people are being incredibly short sighted. VR is relatively niche but it is growing rapidly - there have been a couple of points in recent months when VR games have been at the top of the Steam charts. And just speaking anecdotally, every time I have shown my Quest 2 to someone who hasn't used VR before, they are blown away by it. My stepdad, a retired boomer, bought one a few months ago just so he could spend time playing virtual golf during the winter (and he's not someone who plays video games generally). And that's just gaming in VR, to say nothing of all the MR and AR possibilities that we are just beginning to explore. As these devices continue to improve in quality and comfort, I wager they will become very popular.
hope aapl takes a wait and see position to competitors vr headsets - then make a ppl model if vr headsets really look like the thing to get
Many AR devices should come in the market in the next couple of years. Excited to see Apple’s take on it.
"It’s worse to be in a room of people with AR devices on their faces “enhancing” their environments instead of a smartphone."
That smells like a "the sky is falling, think of the children" reaction.
AR is predominately a tool. With one of the huge benefits of having your hands free and available for dealing with whatever task you're engaged in. Whether you're wrenching a semi truck, inspecting a nuclear power plant, learning to play piano, inspecting a car as an insurance adjuster, a dentist examining a patient, a scientist engaged in an experiment, a conservationist inspecting national parks, to a thoracic surgeon engaged in a complex medical procedure. And the list goes on and on. And on. Being hands-free not grasping a phone or tablet is essential.
Sure, for some, there's an entertainment component. But that's mice nuts compared to what AR is really about.
It's a shame some people can't get beyond the idea AR is some kind of entertainment appliance.
Last edited:
For the masses, it did seemingly come out of nowhere. But I want to remember there actually was some level of scuttlebutt here on these forums. I know because there finally seemed an end in sight for the Mac user who also wanted a smart phone that played nice with their Mac. At that time, the only Mac-friendly smart phone was the Palm Teo 650. I had one. It sucked. But it sync'd with my Mac, so...
Now that I think bout it, there was scuttlebutt here because I had already started saving for whatever it was Apple had up their sleeve when Steve stepped on stage that day. And to see that they delivered beyond my wildest expectation was just a moment and sensation I will likely never forget (he says, as he looks fondly over to his recently secured Grid-1).
I also recall being in line at the Aspen Grove Apple Store on launch day. The energy was through the roof. Peak Apple. I raced home to open the packaging and start the refreshing and classical Apple intuitive process of activating the phone. It seems odd now, but there was a time when you had to spend no less than 2 hours in a cellular carrier's store activating your new handheld. iPhone's activation was a paradigm shift. I remember activating my iPhone and then heading over to a friend's going away party where family and friends, ranging from infants to grandparents, were in attendance. I was embarrassed about dropping $600 for a cell phone (which, at that time was beyond ridiculous when all carries gave out free phones), and had it buried deep in my pocket. Said friend asked "Well? Did you get it?" Demanding I show him immediately. I will never forget the crowd that formed around me. More specifically, watching anyone from a child to a grandparent understand how to navigate the OS with zero instruction from me was, again, peak Apple.
Anyway, surprise or other, it was certainly a tectonic moment in history, IMHO.
Wow, the comments on the article page seem to run to either "you'll spend all day on social media with this further separating yourself from the real world!" or "this will be too expensive nobody will ever buy it!".
It's a bit the same as when people yell that the Mac Pro is too expensive for their needs. If so, then guess what, you're probably not the target market - of all their computers with "Pro" in the name, the Mac Pro really actually was designed for professional use (and that doesn't merely mean that you have a job or the computer is in an office - it was designed for people who needed a whole lot of computing horsepower, that they could easily pay for with billable hours). I expect the first VR/AR device from Apple won't be aimed at your typical consumer, it'll be for more niche markets, where it has the potential to be hugely useful - imagine, for instance, looking at a piece of machinery you need to repair while wearing a VR device, and having detailed schematics overlaid on your view, showing precisely what all the parts are, how they fit together, and what measurements would indicate that each given piece is working properly or is out of spec. No, that's not a consumer application, but to a particular group, it's extremely valuable. I expect there will be similar applications for VR. Eventually, as the technology improves, it'll filter down into more consumer-ish uses - though they'll probably demo some games on the first models, because, why not sell a few to people with money to burn, if they really want to buy it.
People set up "social media" use as a strawman and then proceed to get outraged that people will spend all their time this way instead of meeting IRL. Facebook (arguably the most insidious of social media) bought Oculus (arguably the most advanced VR headset of the time) years ago. Have you heard hundreds of credible stories of millions of people spending all their time on Facebook using the Oculus Rift? No? Neither have I. So why all the pearl-clutching about Apple potentially releasing a product?
I'd love to eventually have, essentially, Jarvis built into my glasses, but I'm not hugely interested in the tech until it gets to that point, or at least near it (voice input for command/control has just gotten to the point where it's finally somewhat useful, with Siri and such - meanwhile I've had some people insisting to me that computer voice control was totally ready to use ever since the 80's). I expect I'll be sitting out Apple's first inroads into this space, just as I have no real interest in buying a Mac Pro (or a helicopter).
It's a bit the same as when people yell that the Mac Pro is too expensive for their needs. If so, then guess what, you're probably not the target market - of all their computers with "Pro" in the name, the Mac Pro really actually was designed for professional use (and that doesn't merely mean that you have a job or the computer is in an office - it was designed for people who needed a whole lot of computing horsepower, that they could easily pay for with billable hours). I expect the first VR/AR device from Apple won't be aimed at your typical consumer, it'll be for more niche markets, where it has the potential to be hugely useful - imagine, for instance, looking at a piece of machinery you need to repair while wearing a VR device, and having detailed schematics overlaid on your view, showing precisely what all the parts are, how they fit together, and what measurements would indicate that each given piece is working properly or is out of spec. No, that's not a consumer application, but to a particular group, it's extremely valuable. I expect there will be similar applications for VR. Eventually, as the technology improves, it'll filter down into more consumer-ish uses - though they'll probably demo some games on the first models, because, why not sell a few to people with money to burn, if they really want to buy it.
People set up "social media" use as a strawman and then proceed to get outraged that people will spend all their time this way instead of meeting IRL. Facebook (arguably the most insidious of social media) bought Oculus (arguably the most advanced VR headset of the time) years ago. Have you heard hundreds of credible stories of millions of people spending all their time on Facebook using the Oculus Rift? No? Neither have I. So why all the pearl-clutching about Apple potentially releasing a product?
I'd love to eventually have, essentially, Jarvis built into my glasses, but I'm not hugely interested in the tech until it gets to that point, or at least near it (voice input for command/control has just gotten to the point where it's finally somewhat useful, with Siri and such - meanwhile I've had some people insisting to me that computer voice control was totally ready to use ever since the 80's). I expect I'll be sitting out Apple's first inroads into this space, just as I have no real interest in buying a Mac Pro (or a helicopter).
In the short term, I see VR as more of a replacement for desktop/laptop than as a phone replacement. Primary use will be at home, office, or industrial use.
I don't think good AR with transparent screens will be a thing in the near future, at least not in a form factor people will want to wear in public. And if it happens, it will be more like a smartwatch in terms of functionality than a smartphone.
I've had a blast with multiplayer VR games and apps, and think collaboration is one of VR's strong points. I find it a bit ironic that people typing on a forum are complaining about VR taking people out of the real world.
Nice story — that must have been quite an experience! It’s unusual to think of being surprised by the release of a device when leaks are so prevalent. I really do think the new AR/VR device will be similar to the original iPhone release in surprising us.
Side note — I think I had that same Treo model — typical trash so common pre-iPhone.
While we’re not clamoring for a headset like we were a phone, I too am thinking this headset will be similar in wow factor as that ‘07 iPhone debut. Time will tell.
That's what google glass was about. Simply having an external display is not what AR is about.