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What you’re saying is not really an argument against what I’m saying. Echo works with any music system (we can say B&O or teufel if you don’t like Bose) and HomePod with none. Echo supports a variety of streaming services. HomePod one. For Music lovers the echo is the clear choice because they will have some audio system at home already. And that doesn’t even take into account that alexa is much better than Siri or that the price is 7x as much for the HomePod
[doublepost=1506642602][/doublepost]BTW: the bose soundbar 5 plus an echo dot is still saving money vs the HomePod with probably similar sound experience

True, if you've already got a nice setup then the Echo makes more sense than HomePod. Another way to do it, if your speakers are part of your entertainment center, is to use an ATV as the source instead.

As far as the Bose 5 soundbar goes, based on the review I read I wouldn't be surprised if it actually sounds worse than the HomePod. In any case, someone could still do far better for the money than the crummy Bose. I'm not really advocating for the HomePod as much as I am against Bose.
 
True, if you've already got a nice setup then the Echo makes more sense than HomePod. Another way to do it, if your speakers are part of your entertainment center, is to use an ATV as the source instead.

As far as the Bose 5 soundbar goes, based on the review I read I wouldn't be surprised if it actually sounds worse than the HomePod. In any case, someone could still do far better for the money than the crummy Bose. I'm not really advocating for the HomePod as much as I am against Bose.

Yes I can see how an ATV would be a competition for an echo in this way.
I am not advocating for or against the HomePod - I think there is a market for it. People who like good sound quality but don’t care for great who don’t have a stereo at home and have an Apple Music subscription. I am honestly just surprised that Apple is aiming for such a relatively small market instead of making the system a bit more open in some ways and thus making the system attractive to many more people
 
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He's an awful CEO for what Apple needs now and going forward (he was the right choice after Steve Jobs died, just no longer anymore... And that's okay)
Tim Cook was an awful CEO from the start. Scott Forstall should run Apple.

I think they and you are making a big mistake here. The HomePod is first and foremost about music? Well then it is first and foremost for people who love music who dont have good speakers at home. Most people who love music have really good speakers already. Is Apple really thinking music lovers will give up their Bose sound system for an inferior HomePod? Whats the selling point then, good but not excellent speakers that have a mostly badly working voice assistant?

Exactly. HomePod and Echo are smart speakers. And smart speaker is a secondary speaker. It's a kitchen speaker, some other room speaker, but not a main speaker/sound system for a user's music or movies or TV. Good sound in such device is just a nice additional feature. It's main feature is to be smart and helpful as much as possible. But Siri isn't very smart in comparison to other assistants and HomePod can't offer anything more than Echo does. HomePod can't run apps so people won't be tied to it as they are tied to iOS devices, and people won't pay such big premium just for the brand when there are much cheaper and better (smarter) options. A cheaper device is actually a preferable choice for the kitchen because it can be easily replaced if it gets damaged. Also, smart speaker should be affordable, so you could put 2-3 speakers in your home, or it defiles the whole point of an always available smart assistant (unless you live in a 1 room studio apartment). But at $349... sometimes it feels as if Apple is run by fashion designers.
It should become a user-oriented tech company again. Smart, brave and innovative.
 
Keep telling yourself that it's not Apples goal to get into that market. But that obnoxious condescending "Christ" at the end of your sentence isn't going to change that.
I was halfway being facetious, but cool bud!

Anyways, I said “direct competitor”. I did not say they don’t want to “get into that market” which is that of a smart speaker. That’s quite a large market that encompasses much more than the Echo.
 
Although quality of sound is important, its also about functionality. I would hope that HomePod turns out to be more than just a streaming speaker

Apart from being a VERY good speaker, its also a home hub for IOT devices and a complete Siri experience, and will just get better with software updates.
 
@Abaziga

....Because they suddenly became an everlasting monopoly with many impenetrable moats protecting their monopoly power indefinitely??

What the heck are you talking about "Apple needs a steady hand at the deck"? That is their *problem*, they're stuck in malaise and stagnating - while their competitors are only becoming more numerous and more fierce.

If Apple were a utility with a guaranteed monopoly, than you're right... someone like Tim Cook would be appropriate. (but even still, Tim Cook himself wouldn't last at most regional utility monopolies because he never stops talking and promoting his politics - while most county governments are on the opposite side of the political spectrum).

I'm dead serious, Tim Cook wouldn't last very long at any company..... his passion and place is clearly in the political realm.

@Abaziga let the man go!!!!

Because of your delusional image of Tim Cook's performance; what, you want to selfishly deny him from following his personal dream of driving social/political change??? Let the man follow his dream already!!!


Moreso than ever, Apple needs a steady hand at the deck. And like it or not, Tim Cook is the best that Apple’s got.
[doublepost=1506707811][/doublepost]Siri, or any other Apple service??

They're an embarrassment when it comes to cloud services

You win the internet today, well played.
 
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What's so funny about having a backup land line? It works during a power outage. Do you know bank branches that use VOIP have at least one backup landline for emergency and security alarm?
Given that the Echo Connect needs power, it will not be available for your POTS line in the event of a power outage. But your cell phone will generally continue working regardless until its batteries die.

The point is, the Echo Connect is for land lines which are used as primary sources of communications, not as emergency backups. You won't hook a fancy speakerphone to connect to your rarely-used phone. I think "primary landline" consumers are a very small minority in the US - somewhere north of the 6.5% of "landline only" households, but closer to that than to the 39% (and dropping like a rock) "landline and cellphone" households.

I know that our house had landline and cell service for many years, only because landline service was free with Internet service. My mother in law has landline both because it is included in her internet service and because I think it makes her feel more secure. I think that such situations are the vast bulk of the "landline and cellphone" household stats.

That said, can Amazon sell a device to that sliver of consumers? Maybe. Even 6.5% of US households is still a fairly large market, although the vast majority are on fixed incomes and thus it is not likely to be a lucrative market. I just see the overlap between that audience and anyone paying attention to Amazon launch events to be vanishingly small, making it a bit of a head-scratcher as to why that would be given space in the Echo press release rather than just put out on the Amazon store as a "You might also be interested in..." recommendation for the sliver of relevant Amazon customers.
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Apple always waits and releases the best version of something. They have said many times "we aren't the first, but we are the best"

I don't think that's really true. Apple waits until it has something fresh to add, but generally the first generation of an Apple product is a bit experimental.

* iPod - Massive improvements over the marketplace, but it wasn't until they opened up to Windows users and added iTunes Store that it could really live and breathe on its own
* iPhone - Groundbreaking, but those who waited for iPhone 3G had their patience well rewarded
* iPad 1 - Finally a tablet done "right", but the first gen had the shortest supported life and was massively improved-upon the next year with iPad 2
* AppleTV 1 - This one got a software update to be massively useful - "AppleTV Take Two", but likewise didn't really come into its own until the second hardware generation (hockey puck design).
* Apple Watch - "Series 0" put a lot out on the table, but Series 2 (and 1) and now Series 3 really are much more fine-tuned and useful devices.

I expect the same from HomePod. The first generation adds significantly to what the segment can be. But the second generation will be where it really comes into its own. Assuming, of course, it makes it to a second generation, and isn't abandoned like iPod HiFi. I think there is enough interesting territory here, though, that Apple will find a nice niche to nestle into for the second generation product.

I'd also add that services have a similar pattern, although nowhere near the evolutionary pace of hardware, strangely enough. The evolution of Siri is a great example (personally I find Siri immensely useful, at least as much so as Alexa, but apparently my opinion is not a majority held one). Maps - now a very strong competitor to Google Maps - is another example. They take longer to evolve, and are less splashy when they do get to a stable place. And, of course, other companies are innovating their own services at a similar rate. But hardware has a very predictable pattern at Apple: Gen 1 is a vast experimental playground; Gen 2 is where Apple decides what the device wants to be when it grows up and starts taking it there.
 
Gen 1 is a vast experimental playground; Gen 2 is where Apple decides what the device wants to be when it grows up and starts taking it there.

If this is correct, then there should absolutely be no premium price for the apple generation 1 product over its peers.

siri is inferior to alexa, absolutely no doubt, home pod is a big miss by apple...

Apple simply do not understand the market, amazon is driving this sector, not apple.
 
....Because they suddenly became an everlasting monopoly with many impenetrable moats protecting their monopoly power indefinitely??

What the heck are you talking about "Apple needs a steady hand at the deck"? That is their *problem*, they're stuck in malaise and stagnating - while their competitors are only becoming more numerous and more fierce.

There is a lot more to making a successful product than simply coming up with a great concept. You need to be able to mass produce a phone, distribute it effectively around the world, and run big-budget advertising campaigns. All this boil down to having a solid logistics chain. Yes, it isn't sexy, but it's necessary to the smooth running of any company, and it's precisely Tim Cook's expertise in this area which has allowed Apple to become one of the largest, if not the largest companies in the world.

I look at the state of competition facing Apple, and honestly, I don't think any of them poses any credible threat to Apple. Whether you want to admit it or not, Apple has won mobile, because Apple now commands the best customers (those with the most propensity to spend), which in turn means that Apple is positioned to win any market linked to mobile, such as wearables.

We are looking at the start of Apple's ascent all the way to the top, and I can think of no one better to be at the forefront than Tim Cook himself.

Siri, or any other Apple service??

They're an embarrassment when it comes to cloud services

Their services work well enough for me. Maps gets me to where I need to go, and I use Siri multiple times a day for various purposes.
 
There is a lot more to making a successful product than simply coming up with a great concept. You need to be able to mass produce a phone, distribute it effectively around the world, and run big-budget advertising campaigns. All this boil down to having a solid logistics chain. Yes, it isn't sexy, but it's necessary to the smooth running of any company, and it's precisely Tim Cook's expertise in this area which has allowed Apple to become one of the largest, if not the largest companies in the world.

I look at the state of competition facing Apple, and honestly, I don't think any of them poses any credible threat to Apple. Whether you want to admit it or not, Apple has won mobile, because Apple now commands the best customers (those with the most propensity to spend), which in turn means that Apple is positioned to win any market linked to mobile, such as wearables.

We are looking at the start of Apple's ascent all the way to the top, and I can think of no one better to be at the forefront than Tim Cook himself.



Their services work well enough for me. Maps gets me to where I need to go, and I use Siri multiple times a day for various purposes.

This is one of the worst posts I have ever read on these forums.

The above may have some relevance if we were discussing CEO attributes for a cement company, but it’s mind blowing that these comments were made regarding a CEO for Apple.
 
This is one of the worst posts I have ever read on these forums.

The above may have some relevance if we were discussing CEO attributes for a cement company, but it’s mind blowing that these comments were made regarding a CEO for Apple.

Well, as of end last year,

https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2016/12/6/milking-the-iphone

The iPhone installed base has grown by 500M users.
The iPad installed base has grown by 175M users.
The Mac installed base has grown by 50M users.
Apple introduced Apple Watch, the company's first wearable product. Approximately 18M Apple Watches, a device positioned as an iPhone accessory, have been sold to date.
Apple is earning more than $6B per year of revenue through app sales via the App Store.
Apple successfully made the difficult jump from a paid music download model to streaming and is approaching 20M paying Apple Music subscribers.
Apple continues to push forward with Apple TV. The company is approaching 10M units sold since the device was updated in 2015.
Apple continues to develop key services including Apple Pay, Messages, and Maps.

You can point to the product roadmap left behind by Steve Jobs, but I feel that Tim Cook also deserves his fair share of the credit for his steady hand in managing Apple and steering it towards where it needs to go.

Times have changed, and Apple is a very different company now in keeping with those times. Would Steve Jobs even have been capable of running a company the size that Apple currently is?
 
There is a lot more to making a successful product than simply coming up with a great concept. You need to be able to mass produce a phone, distribute it effectively around the world, and run big-budget advertising campaigns. All this boil down to having a solid logistics chain. Yes, it isn't sexy, but it's necessary to the smooth running of any company, and it's precisely Tim Cook's expertise in this area which has allowed Apple to become one of the largest, if not the largest companies in the world.

I will quote this post in future, if the iPhone X gets delayed or will be in massive undersupply as several rumors suggesting .
 
I will quote this post in future, if the iPhone X gets delayed or will be in massive undersupply as several rumors suggesting .

Just bear mind that the shortage in supply for the iPhone X will be despite Apple’s best efforts, given the immense quantities they will sell in. Not because of Tim’s ineptness.
 
I will quote this post in future, if the iPhone X gets delayed or will be in massive undersupply as several rumors suggesting .
And while we are at it, let's not also forget that Apple managed to update its entire lineup this year. We got refreshed Macs, iPads, iPhones, Apple TV, and watches, not forgetting the upcoming HomePod and iMac Pro. In addition to annual software updates which brought major new features to the iPad.

That's quite a production line Tim Cook has gotten running.
 
This would seem to push the limits of the phrase 'no such thing as a stupid question'.

People like to say “Steve jobs would never have done this”.

That man was undeniably a genius, but he wasn’t perfect either, and made his fair share of missteps while at Apple.

Is it so blasphemous to suggest that someone else might actually be better for the job than Steve himself?
 
People like to say “Steve jobs would never have done this”.

That man was undeniably a genius, but he wasn’t perfect either, and made his fair share of missteps while at Apple.

Is it so blasphemous to suggest that someone else might actually be better for the job than Steve himself?
Steve Jobs would not agree with your opinion!
 
People like to say “Steve jobs would never have done this”.

That man was undeniably a genius, but he wasn’t perfect either, and made his fair share of missteps while at Apple.

Is it so blasphemous to suggest that someone else might actually be better for the job than Steve himself?

That wasn't what you said though. And the answer to the original question is almost certain to be yes. It's not like Apple was just some startup when he died.
 
That wasn't what you said though. And the answer to the original question is almost certain to be yes. It's not like Apple was just some startup when he died.

It was nowhere near the size that the Apple of today was either. Steve had always struck me more of a tinkerer than a boardroom type of CEO. He would have been more content to stay in the lab dreaming up new products than contend with the daily administrative duties of a CEO, which I think Tim Cook performs admirably.

Simply put, times changed, and Apple has changed in keeping with the times. That’s all there is to it.
 
It was nowhere near the size that the Apple of today was either. Steve had always struck me more of a tinkerer than a boardroom type of CEO. He would have been more content to stay in the lab dreaming up new products than contend with the daily administrative duties of a CEO, which I think Tim Cook performs admirably.

Simply put, times changed, and Apple has changed in keeping with the times. That’s all there is to it.

We're still talking an upper-tier Fortune 500 company even back in 2011; I think he would've been fine. :rolleyes:
 
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