Amazon's Fire TV Looks A Lot Like the Rumored Apple TV Update

[Chupa Chupa]

Funny, your post sounds almost exactly like Steve Ballmer's giggling rant when the iPhone was introduced.

Context my friend. Context. You seem to have missed class the day that concept was explained. Two people can say similar things in different settings and have them mean two different things. Example: 1) Guy forgets to pick up a friend and friend calls him a "genius." 2) Guy gets a friend out of social jam unscathed and friend calls him a "genius." See the difference there?

Specifically here:

Balmer's comment was a direct response to a reporter asking him what he thought about the iPhone, to which he was completely dismissive, despite the fact MS didn't have hardware (or viable OS) to compete w/ the iPhone at the time.

My comment was a response, not to Fire TV, but to a poster's belief that Apple has somehow dropped the ball on the media box. If you read past the first sentence in my post you'll see I'm not dismissive about Fire TV at all and believe it will be a serious "player" in the field. My point to the poster was only that the existence of Fire TV does not make Apple TV 3 DOA and also that there is room for more than one media box in the current market.

 

[knewsom]

I love all this clamoring from companies to build new devices that do less than my five year old PS3.

 

[melendezest]

There is something rotten here.
1) Most people really liked Mac Pro. It's very quite, quite cheap for it's competitors, it's very beautiful, it works with only 1 fan etc. Also you probably aren't doing anything professional of had previous gen. Mac Pro. So you don't like Apple anymore because they released an innovative professional computer? OK:

2) It's weird that, when iOS 6 came out, people said ''Oh, it's so stale and old'', ''Nothing changed'' etc. when iOS 7 came out ''We do not want anything new, iOS 6 was much better''. iOS 7 does not really changed way you use your iPhone or iPad so there is something wrong here too.

3) Again, most people (including myself, a GS4 user) didn't liked GS4 because a) It had so many useless features like Airgestures and smart scroll. b) Samsung installed tons of bloatware (8 GB of Bloatware) and you need to root your super-open phone to get rid of them. c) GS4 and Touchwiz are ugly and Samsung didn't even care about making them look better. I really wonder what Android people will do when Apple releases an iPhone with 4.7 inch display. Currently I am waiting for iPhone 6 to get rid of my GS4, even Fandroids and Samsung Fans admit GS4 was one of the worst flagship smartphones. And you ''reeeeealy liked it?

There is something rotten on your comment, I hope you are not one of the Android trolls.

Not everyone that disagrees with Apple is a troll. I used Apple products exclusively since 2001, until this year. I've owned PowerMacs, iBooks, PowerBooks, iMacs, MacBooks, 2 iphone 4s (me and the wife), iPad 1, 2, and Air, and every kind iPod and MacBook Pros (save the Air or Retina).

Just to illustrate the type of Apple customer I've been, my current household Apple setup is a mid 2011 27" iMac (maxed out graphics/processor), an early 2011 17" MBP, an original iPad, iPad 2,iPad Air, 2 iPhone 4s (used as ipods by my sons), an iPod touch (older), and 2 Apple tvs (latest gen).

Now, to your points:
1) "Most people" means who? I don't think that's really been quantified. "A lot of people", perhaps is more accurate. I like the new Mac Pro, just not as a "Mac Pro". It's beautiful, yes. But at the expense of certain functionality and universal appeal. In my opinion (as always), this should've been released along a more "conventional" Mac Pro. I hear plenty of Pros complaining about it too, at least as many as I hear praising it.

2) Again, "people said.." I don't care about everyone's opinion. I merely provided my own. I do not like iOS 7. I believe iOS 6 was far classier, elegant, functional and easy on the eyes, and mature. Period. To throw it out (along with Scott Forstall) was a mistake, in my opinion.

3) Yes, the GS4 is bloated. This, however, does not interfere with its use. I can do more than I can do with the iPhone, and I can see it better to boot. I can simply ignore the extra and useless features. I cannot ignore the iPhone's shortcomings (literally and figuratively). And of course, taste is subjective. I like the GS4 better than the iPhone. By a lot. I like stock Android even better (Nexus 5 is excellent). The wife, a non-techie, agrees. She replaced an iPad 2 and her 4s with a Note 3 and I quote: "I LOVE the Note 3. It is better than the iPhone and the iPad by a lot. I'm not going back."

So, I really don't care how much money Apple makes, I don't care how successful it is at catering to the masses.

The bottom line is that as far as I'm concerned, Apple is shifting directions away from my taste, and as such has me looking for alternatives.

And currently, its competition is offering valid and compelling alternatives.

My fanboyism only goes as far as me and Apple seeing eye to eye.

 

[samcraig]

Not everyone that disagrees with Apple is a troll. I used Apple products exclusively since 2001, until this year. I've owned PowerMacs, iBooks, PowerBooks, iMacs, MacBooks, 2 iphone 4s (me and the wife), iPad 1, 2, and Air, and every kind iPod and MacBook Pros (save the Air or Retina).

Just to illustrate the type of Apple customer I've been, my current household Apple setup is a mid 2011 27" iMac (maxed out graphics/processor), an early 2011 17" MBP, an original iPad, iPad 2,iPad Air, 2 iPhone 4s (used as ipods by my sons), an iPod touch (older), and 2 Apple tvs (latest gen).

N

Honestly - you shouldn't have to justify or spell out your Apple history or products you currently own. Oh I understand why you/we do when confronted like this - but it's really irrelevant. For one - anyone can be lying about it. And for two (more importantly) - it doesn't matter. You're still 100% entitled to your opinion...

 

[melendezest]

And I'll bet that S4 of yours is perfect in every way and unlike Apple I'll bet you couldn't find a thing about it that could stand improvement huh?

You'd lose that bet.

No. It could improve plenty. But we're not talking about Sammy, here.

I had to pick between the GS4's and Apple's shortcomings and, well, you already know what I did.

The perfect iPhone would let me install iOS 6 (or any skin I want w/out having to jailbreak) on it, have a 5 in screen (not 16 X 9), have an IR sensor, and expandable memory and multiple account ability (although I'm nitpicking with the last 2). I want a pocket computer, not a dinky, trendy, girlie-phone with a tiny screen and that pain-in-MY-eyes OS.

Apple don't want to do it? Fine by me.

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Honestly - you shouldn't have to justify or spell out your Apple history or products you currently own. Oh I understand why you/we do when confronted like this - but it's really irrelevant. For one - anyone can be lying about it. And for two (more importantly) - it doesn't matter. You're still 100% entitled to your opinion...

I know, I just enjoy doing it.

 

[Michael CM1]

just want to add to this conversation..... it would seem... people and apple in general underestimate the appeal of Amazon Prime..... Although you can use airplay to stream prime it is not ideal..... I am well in to the apple ecosystem but brought a roku recently for my daughters room just for Amazon.... Why you may ask.... it is mostly because we are cord cutters, Amazon offers tv show purchases for 1.99 versus 2.99 everywhere else.... it adds up quickly over the year.

so Ironically the only thing keeping me from having an appletv in every room is apple themselves keeping amazon off..... because for some reason they have decided not to offer regular def shows at a cheaper price

I have never seen a show in HD offered by Apple that wasn't also $1.99 for SD. Methinks you need to look up how to show the SD offerings for HD shows. Click the "SD" button below the show's album art when you get to the episode listings. Only differences in episode pricing will probably be specials, which are usually just for seasons.

 

[krravi]

Apple is definitely just kicking back seeing their competitors release all these products, while I'm sure the competitors are just as scared for when Apple announces a keynote event and readys to impress everyone.

This Fire TV from Amazon can essentially be a software update from Apple.

Theres a reason why Apple has remained quiet in recent times concerning this space...

It's because they're preparing to strike.

Can't wait for the new Apple TV.

Unfortunately when it comes to Media, Apple's hardware prowess alone isn't enough. They need to cough up serious money for content and thats where a fate of a device lies.

It could all be very cool looking with chamfers and what not.. but when I turn it on and I see only 15 channels or apps it becomes a paper weight.

 

[Cyborg21]

1) A lot people liked Mac Pro and why you wanted a ''conventional'' Mac Pro

2) I am really interested in all gadgets so I read some other tech sites too and I am pretty sure at least 4/5 people said iOS 6 is stale and old, then Apple released iOS 7 and now, people complaining about how good was iOS 6.

3) GS4 has many problems.
a) Android apps have poor quality. A lot of apps have malware or simply spam.
b) Both GS4 and Note 3 has poor build quality and poor design.
c) I am not even mentioning the Touchwiz
d) Phone itself has too many problems and bugs
e) Phone itself is made by a horrible company.
This is why I really want an iPhone back and get rid of GS4. Also, if you really like Android (eww) Samsung is a poor choice. Apple is evolving and changing but sadly some people don't like change.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

The biggest problems I have with Apple TV is its utter inability to play 3rd party formats like AVI and MKV. XBMC hacks allow these to work, but Gen3 ATVs can't be hacked to my knowledge and thus far Apple won't allow 3rd party Apps so the device is highly limited in its newer configurations.

Also, since Gen2, AppleTV cannot play bit-perfect audio either (it moves all 44.1kHz signals to 48kHz for no apparent reason and this obliterates DTS signsl for DTS Audio CDs, for example and turns off many audiophiles and there's no reason it has to do this. Gen1 ATV preserves 44.1Khz where appropriate). AppleTV can't even seem to manage adding support for iTunes Plus Album information that ATV Gen1 also handles. I just don't understand why they can't get with it and address these issues. Sending feedback appears to do no good. They ignore it all.

I couldn't care less about all these new "channels' they've been adding. I don't need Disney channel through AppleTV. I already have it on cable. Why would I need it AGAIN? I need more flexibility for my own AV archives, not more crap I'll never use.

 

[SchneiderMan]

Or Amazon has had a streaming box product on their radar and in development for longer than any rumor of a new AppleTV box - saw product gaps and responded accordingly to that.

Believe it or not - the entire world does not revolve around what Apple does or what RUMORS say they are doing.

Amazon clearly copied Apple's Apple TV in terms of product design and even inferior packaging. It isn't all a coincidence. Could Apple have introduced gaming into the Apple TV system? Sure, but they haven't and that's a missed opportunity. I'm not saying the Amazon Fire TV is worse than its biggest rival, even at $100.

 

[samcraig]

Amazon clearly copied Apple's Apple TV in terms of product design and even inferior packaging. It isn't all a coincidence. Could Apple have introduced gaming into the Apple TV system? Sure, but they haven't and that's a missed opportunity. I'm not saying the Amazon Fire TV is worse than its biggest rival, even at $100.

In design? How so? Put them side by side and what is the same?

 

[TPadden]

...... I'm not saying the Amazon Fire TV is worse than its biggest rival, even at $100.

Got mine yesterday; after 1 day's use: love it .

 

[lk400]

What?.. is this a late April.fools? Lol... Surely even the most loyal and blinkered ifans don't believe this to be true...

If only there was some graphical way of representing my sarcasm which clearly didnt come across in my post.

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Loads of MP3 players before iPod
Several touch screen smart phones before iPhone
Plenty of tablets before iPad

Apple are (with exception of Mac) successful because they are not first to market, they are first to market doing the job properly.

Or were you being sarcastic?

Yes. I thought the absurdity of my post would speak for itself, but I was clearly wrong. I am sorry.

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Actually, no they weren't. Your statement just proved the OP's point. MP3 players were around before the iPod. The iPod (and later the iTunes store, along with Windows compatibility) was the first one that resonated with the masses. There were touch screen phones before the iPhone. But the iPhone changed it up, and leveraged the iPod/iTunes ecosystem to pull in the masses. The iPad was beat to market by at least 10 by other tablets. But it was the first one that made sense to the masses.

Yes.

 

[mrgulabull]

Where does this say it streams MKV's?

For now, Plex allows you to do this. But given that the underlying OS is android, I'm expecting additional options like XBMC to come along shortly. The most important thing is that the hardware is capable and the app market is open. The same can't be said of the current ATV.

 

[D-Dave]

My take is if you don't like what Apple is putting out just buy from one of these other competitors. Is that so hard to do? My personal motto is don't waste time complaining about one company, if there's something better out there then go buy it.

Hmmm....either you got me wrong there or we have a VERY different understanding of the role of an enthusiast.
My point being even though the iPhone is currently the overall best choice for my needs I am not closing my eyes to those aspects were it is not as good as other solutions (or even previous versions). Thats exactly why I gave the example in my original post.
Your point seems to be that if (to stick to this example) the iPhone is the overall best Device for me, I am not allowed to say that feature x is better implemented in device y?! I am not allowed to say that the music app in iOS 5 handeled Audiobooks far better then the current one?
Well, I think as a fan of a product (yes, especialy as a fan) I can and should state what aspects of that product should be improved.

Talking crap about Apple...

Would you care to state where I did that?

Sure, everyone has a right to an opinion but this very news article return quite a few unnecessary hate comments, especially when calling someone an iSheep.

I never did write a hate comment towards apple (unless any criticism is now blasphemous and for that reason a sign of hate) and I certainly did not call anyone an iSheep.

If you think insults towards others here are acceptable just because people show worship for a company and their product (especially when they are doing so on an enthusiast board that celebrates said company and their products) then I think that's pretty sad.

Again, what insult did I make or defend in my post? I just thought it may be reasonable to explain that criticism can come especialy strong from those who realy like a product but do not accept that certain aspects of said product are not keeping up to the overall quality of it.
But if you think that this Board is mainly populated by Apple haters then I urge you to read a few more threads (and note which post get the most up votes)...nothing could be further from the truth.

Anyway, have a nice day and take care.

Edit: After reading your post #245

And I'll bet that S4 of yours is perfect in every way and unlike Apple I'll bet you couldn't find a thing about it that could stand improvement huh?

I am realy puzzeled. Why is selective criticism ok to apply to other products (which some users think is the best overall device for them) but not ok when made towards apple products, that seems a bit ... well... hypocritical.

 

[LordVic]

I am realy puzzeled. Why is selective criticism ok to apply to other products (which some users think is the best overall device for them) but not ok when made towards apple products, that seems a bit ... well... hypocritical.

Go read h is long standing post history and it will all be clear

1) Most people really liked Mac Pro. It's very quite, quite cheap for it's competitors, it's very beautiful, it works with only 1 fan etc. Also you probably aren't doing anything professional of had previous gen. Mac Pro. So you don't like Apple anymore because they released an innovative professional computer? OK:

There's nothing wrong with designing and coming up with a new design and being innovative. Nobody, even most of the detractors think that the new Mac pro isn't innovative, or Really really cool. it is!

But, Apple made a lot of sacrifices in order to move towards the new design. Where they gained in heat dissipation, small form factor and a pretty design, They lost in functionality in many ways. Where the old Mac Pro used to be Apple's foray into the "Performance workstation market", that could target everything from Gamers, to Media professionals, Servers and any real activity that a traditional desktop workstation could perform, the New Mac Pro drops most of that in favour of only being a really good deal dollar to performance for an extremely niche group of people and setup.

ONLY those who are able to take full advantage of those dual workstation GPU's are goign to see any performance gain over the competition. And right now, as of the last reviews, that was only using Apple's software. Most 3rd party software doesn't see the sort of performance gain apple is claiming. So unless you're a Final Cut Pro user, you're paying a lot of money for GPU's you can't leverage.

Than there's the entire expansion issue. one example: The move to Thunderbolt exclusively for expansion is full of pitfalls. In an older, Traditional tower, with internal PCI-E slots you were capable of adding a 3rd party Raid controller, with some hard drives and have yourself a half decent fast array of disks internally. You could do this for a fairly reasonable price. A few hundred on the cheap. Now, Since you're tied exclusively tro the thunderbolt system and external devices, you MUST buy a very VERY limited array of external boxes to support raid. And they are not cheap. We're now talking thousands of dollars for this expansion. There are OTHER expansions that, moving externally, cause this sort of problem. From Network cards, SAS cards, Fibrechannel and the like.

TLDR: Basically, Nobody is discounting that it's not beautiful innovative design (except the trash canners), But the functionality and cost to benefit ratio has made the New Mac Pro an extremely niched product instead of a general computing device. And I have a strong feeling post initial sales, the sales of it will flatline and Apple will have to re-think their "Pro" direction again. the "computing as an Appliance" has never proven to work well in the high performance segment of computing.

Apple has always put form over function before. This is what makes them so Awesome. Making techy geeky products that also look amazing and don't look techy and geeky. But Historically, Apple never REMOVED functionality and features to do this. More and More in the last few years, Apple has started sacrificing a lot more functionality in order to hit their form.

And now that the OTHER players in the game (Amazon, HTC's of the world) have been able to generally match the form AND provide functionality, Apple is looking less and less like they know what consumers are willing to buy. They still have a lot fo momentum, but at what point does consumer desire change and Apple starts feeling the pinch?

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

There's nothing wrong with designing and coming up with a new design and being innovative. Nobody, even most of the detractors think that the new Mac pro isn't innovative, or Really really cool. it is!

Definition of innovative:

(of a product, idea, etc.) featuring new methods; advanced and original.

One might argue that a cylinder/canister as a computer case is a "new method" for that segment. I would greatly question whether it's "advanced" (seeing that it loses all expandability of previous designs, thus making those designs clearly more "advanced" in that regard) or "original" (nothing original about the cylinder shape as it's used in everything from vacuum cleaners to trash cans to fuel containers for semi-trucks). I would conclude that Apple was trying desperately to be DIFFERENT and different alone. I think the reaction they were looking for is along the lines of, "Whoa! That looks like something out of Star Wars! It's R2D2 in piano lacquer black!" The fact that R2D2 (a cylinder robot) and trash cans come instantly to mind shows there's NOTHING "original" going on there.

One might argue why someone would try to fit rectangular motherboards into a cylindrical shape in the first place. Apple claims it's for heat dissipation. So those $5 cooling fans in the previous Mac Pro were ineffectual at removing heat that they needed a whole new design that trades off ALL internal PCI expansion and a serious lack of drive bays JUST for COOLING!?!? I have to call BS on that. That's not a believable reason for ditching all the PRO features. Designer fashion should not take precedent over power computing, particularly for the PRO market. I'll say again this tower makes more sense as the basis for Mac game computer or something (obviously with non-Xeons and gaming GPUs and cross-fire type support added to OSX) than a "PRO" machine that takes the needs of typical Apple Pros (if there are any left) in mind.

All this talk of cooling should beg the question of whether the new Mac Pro runs at cooler temperatures. I've read that it's quiet and doesn't like to spool up the cooling fan, but that's been Apple's design philosophy for some time now and it's at least partially responsible for WHY all those Macbook Pros are failing in droves (because Apple chooses cooling fan curves that put silence over COOLING and lets things run too damn hot). It's why EVERY Mac owner should have something like Macs Fan Control running at all times and set much cooler curves so that hardware doesn't unnecessarily heat up to extreme temperatures just so it's a little quieter in the room. Just because an Intel CPU is rated to 100 degrees C, that doesn't mean you should let it get that hot in your case (other components likely aren't rated that high and even the CPU is going to have a shorter lifespan the hotter you let it get).

The numbers I've seen on these forums in regards to idle temperatures suggest exactly what I'm saying. Apple is letting this thing run too darn hot for its own good. One can only imagine what will happen if you get a 12-core and max the thing out at regular intervals. What happened to efficient cooling? It's a load of BS. They should have asked Dyson for some advice on QUIET cooling that actually moves a lot of air rather than just turning the fans down to 750RPM to get quiet performance.

But, Apple made a lot of sacrifices in order to move towards the new design. Where they gained in heat dissipation, small form factor and a pretty design,

Since when are trash cans "pretty" ??? Seriously. I don't get WTF some people see in this thing other than, WOW! It's not a box! I've never seen a computer that wasn't a rectangle or cube of some type! A cylinder! Whoa! WHO CARES? The thing should be safely tucked under your desk or in a rack anyway! It's not a museum piece of art. Apple's CUBE looked way cooler and it failed royally due to lack of expansion. This time around, Apple solved that problem by simply not offering a competing model WITH expansion (the same way they achieve iMac sales by not offering a desktop alternative save the under-powered GPU Mac Mini).

I think you covered all the other bases quite well. This thing will appeal to a limited market for video professionals and a few well-to-do fan boys and everyone else will either have to find a way to make do (because they love OSX) or jump ship for more professional waters, if they haven't already from years of plain old neglect with few upgrades for the Mac Pro platform over the past half decade.

Oh, and there's nothing "cool" about a $3k starter price in an age of $600-1200 computers. There are many fans that would like to own one, but it's simply not practical. They could resolve that by simply offering a different CPU/GPU combo at a lower starting price (say $2k with killer gaming cards and normal quad i7s instead). But Apple has no interest in that market. They want to sell them iMacs instead where your choice of monitor affects your choice of hardware and vice-versa.

The new Mac Pro allows dual-GPUs to work in tandem, but only for custom software. Boot into Windows and you can enable Cross-Fire. Why hasn't Apple simply added cross-fire support to OSX? Why don't they get wit the 21st Century and actually COMPETE with Windows for the home computer market? Windows8 is an unmitigated DISASTER (kind of like Vista but for different reasons). Apple should be taking advantage of this in every way possible. They could start by eliminating the HUGE advantages Windows has in the GPU arena by getting graphics drivers and features on par with Windows and getting OpenGL up to its latest version along with giving game developers the tools they've been requesting for years. Gaming wasn't in mind for the iPhone but it's become huge. It could become huge for the Mac and future AppleTV if they'd give it a chance. I don't want to use Windows for ANYTHING and I don't like gaming consoles (always out of date). Apple is not the poor company that can't afford to do everything anymore. They could easily deal with these things now.

Start by offering a dual-gaming GPU quad-i7 Gaming Box in the new Mac Pro form with OSX support for cross-fire and better drivers and the latest OpenGL and offer to ship it with Windows pre-installed as well for maximum gaming potential (i.e. you could sell these things to people that don't even want OSX at all if done properly and HARDWARE is what Apple makes the money on, but not without support). I could easily see them selling 10x more computers than this limited-market Mac Pro in the same case.