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AMD Radeon R9 M295X Core Clock Throttling, Heat, and Performance

I spoke to apple tech expert he said the new iMac graphics is good for media etc
but not gaming fact!

the late iMac 2013 780M 4GB is perfect for gaming

its a shame you can't get the GTX970 or 980 for iMac

but is mind blowing on PC
 
For the record, I never said I was "ok" with 105c... but the fact of the matter is that these ultra thin designed are pushing the thermal specs of modern CPU/GPUs. A lot of people have similar concerns with notebooks like the 2014 Razer blade or MSI GS60 Ghost pro. While these don't get QUITE as hot [we're talking 95-98c] it seems most modern high performance designs are sacrificing straight line extended performance for a thinner form factor. GPU manufacturers KNOW this, and they're working as hard as they can to boost performance while scaling back power consumption/heat. The Nvidia 900m series is a good recent example of this.

In the meantime, however, these same GPU manufacturers have torture tested these chips. They KNOW what temperatures said chip can handle without suffering severe degradation or failure, and have provided these numbers [and probably the test results as well] to Apple. In this case, from the data provided, it looks like 105c is what I would call "max safe", or what the hardware level instruction is set to NOT go over.

The one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet, [and I may have just missed it] Has anyone installed SMC fan control, cranked the fan up prior to launching [insert demanding game name here] and seen what if any difference it makes? For those running Boot Camp and are unfamiliar, if you set your fan profile and do a restart [not a hard shutdown] it SHOULD keep the fan profile active (at least it USED to, I haven't messed with it since 2011 or so]

I'd be interested to see if it would prevent or strongly delay the inevitable heat soak.
 
Hello,

Thanks for your interesting tests and opinions in this thread. I'm going to buy a 27 Retina iMac and will use it mostly for programming, Unity3d, some other 3d modeling programs, photoshop and webbrowsing. Now I was wondering which graphics card you guys would recommend. After I read this thread I thought maybe the m290x card might be a better choice, but I really don't like stuttering animations and want to have a fluent experience. Which graphics card would you recommend?
 
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celaeno said:
Thanks for your interesting tests and opinions in this thread. I'm going to buy a 27 Retina iMac and will use it mostly for programming, Unity3d, some other 3d modeling programs, photoshop and webbrowsing.
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I'd say the 295x in your case. And you'll also benefit from the i7 CPU.
 
ilyasdesign37 said:
I spoke to apple tech expert he said the new iMac graphics is good for media etc
but not gaming fact!

the late iMac 2013 780M 4GB is perfect for gaming

its a shame you can't get the GTX970 or 980 for iMac

but is mind blowing on PC
Click to expand...

another informed view....jesus, why dont you just ask the local market trader for his input....
 
zarf2007 said:
then stop bitching about hardware that has been hardly tested or used in anger and making wild statements you cannot substantiate.
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Let's see:

I owned a 2012 iMac i7 with the 2GB GTX 680MX. It overclocked extremely well, ran cool, and never, EVER throttled.

I own a 2014 Retina iMac i7 with 4GB M295X. It doesn't overlock (it runs at 106C constantly when playing games, so overclocking won't happen on this chip), it runs extremely HOT, and it constantly throttles. NOTICEABLY.

How are these unsubstantiated? Several of us have even posted screenshots of the throttling and temperatures. Honestly, I could provide you with two oranges and say, "Hey! Look at these two oranges!", and you'd still tell me I'm making wild statement I can't substantiate.

Mac32 said:
WilliamG isn't making wild statements. In fact, he is a lot more informed than many of the recent posters in this thread. Anyways, the riMac is a great machine, but maybe this model isn't ideal for having long gaming sessions every week. 100c+ GPU temps is pushing it pretty far, but what kind of effect it will have on the internal electronics is the long run is hard to say. It's reasonable to expect it will affect the lifespan of the GPU and possibly nearby surrounding electronics. A PC builder wouldn't accept those kind of temps.
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Thanks for the support. 🙂
 
wubsylol said:
In order to have something to compare to, what kind of temperatures does the 2013 model with the GTX 780m get?
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Don't know about the 780m but the one with 775M I have here goes up to 93C when it's being pushed really hard. I think that's a bit high really, but the fans stay at 1200rpm.
 
Sorry haven't read the whole thread, primarily responding to the initial post.

GPU die temp is measured differently on here than on other products. Under normal operation there is always a temperature gradient across a chip because different parts of the chip reach different temperatures. The number being reported is the maximum temp over the chip, versus the edge temp which is lower, and which is what you're normally accustomed to seeing. A 105'C actually maps to < 100'C.
 
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I am sure the chips will be fine for what Apple designed the iMac for under normal conditions! Wow playing games on an iMac?…pretty funny really.

Why bother? It is clear Apple doesn't want people to game on the Mac. We should really get the message and move on. After decades of wishing and hoping, its time to go PC or console if you want play games… just make a hackintosh if u have the time and money. There is really no reason to keep complaining about mobile chips, throttled, nerfed, baked, and jammed into a ultra thin enclosure, get the message. Or for goodness sake an entry level computer that is completely non-upgradeable. Just buy a PC and stick it next to your Mac to game… Do real work on the Mac, play a plethora of games on the PC.

I for one can not wait for the game Star Citizen to arrive, and thats not coming to Mac based on there limited abilities I see. Much more likely seeing it on Linux. I am very sad about it… We will always need trucks, but Apples truck would only have 3 wheels.
 
5iMacs said:
I'm hoping you reordered with an i5/M290X, where there are zero heat/noise issues?

I'm thrilled with mine. Maybe I'll need more CPU/GPU someday for some specialized task, but this should return my investment over 2 years on the screen alone.

Reading PDFs fullscreen 🙂 showing more code on-screen 🙂 actually proofing type/documents on-screen 🙂 watching hi-res video without taking up half the screen 🙂 usable small thumbnails 🙂 amazing detail on large maps and data visualizations 🙂

Makes me feel like my 2012 rMBP (which I still like) was just a taste of things to come.
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When you say there are zero heat/noise issues with the M290X, have you tested to see if this is because it is throttling, or do you mean that there are no heat issues and yet it runs at full speed (no throttling)?
 
Does the throttling only occur under windows boot camp gaming? It's completely fine in OS X?

Or is throttling occurring in OS X as well. If it's just windows, I can live with that since I won't be using windows anyway
 
wubsylol said:
In order to have something to compare to, what kind of temperatures does the 2013 model with the GTX 780m get?
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I played several hours of skyrim (1440p ultra) last night on my 2013 i7/780M. Max GPU temp was 70C. Max CPU 71C. Maybe not the most demanding game, but hopefully a useful data point for you.
 
antipodean said:
I played several hours of skyrim (1440p ultra) last night on my 2013 i7/780M. Max GPU temp was 70C. Max CPU 71C. Maybe not the most demanding game, but hopefully a useful data point for you.
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30+ degrees Celsius hotter for the 295X!
Wow, good job Apple on cheapening out and picking the overheating loser of the GPU wars.

It's like picking the 400hp car that's only good for 400hp on the first 1/4 mile and afterwards is limited to only 50% throttle, while the older car can run 300hp all day long without breaking a sweat.
 
I spent the entirety of yesterday playing BF4 at UHD res with settings on ultra.

Consistently in late 30's to 70 fps, smooth, no stuttering, minimal fan noise noticeable over the speakers. Meh. Whatever.
 
jbuk1 said:
I spent the entirety of yesterday playing BF4 at UHD res with settings on ultra.

Consistently in late 30's to 70 fps, smooth, no stuttering, minimal fan noise noticeable over the speakers. Meh. Whatever.
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That's good news for all the doubters (me included)!
 
Quu said:
Those GPU temperatures are way too high for long term ownership in my opinion. I've built more gaming systems over the past decade than I can count and when things start going over 85c it's worrying. 100c and you're in the danger zone where the life of the graphics will diminish quickly.

Most desktop systems will actually shut themselves down to stop damage between 105-110c at the GPU die.

Personally I would not run any current generation GPU that includes the 280, 290, 295 and all the latest NVIDIA and AMD cards for that matter above 85c.
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Couldn't agree more, having took a few 2012 chassis apart they are not up to it thermally and when it launched I said it would be a good hand dryer out the back!

They can be improved to minimise throttling - by redoing the thermal paste and polishing the die plates. But unlike the retina notebooks which can be done very easily, I have done quite a few with pretty good results.

However the 2012/5k 27 inch chassis is a total nightmare. Heat gun to get the screen off and replacement tape to refit and everything out.

But even still these mobile GPU chips cannot hold a candle to a desktop GPU. If you want to game properly on a genuine Macintosh there are currently two choices:

A new Mac Pro 6,1 with d700 which costs a bomb.

Or buy a used single socket Mac Pro 5,1 and upgrade it properly. When done right with a PCIe SSD blade, fast 6 core 3.46 Xeon, ram up to 48gb and a used refurb PC gtx 680 4gb card off eBay which can be flashed in bootcamp for a boot screen.

That old 5,1 done right will obliterate any iMac or notebook for games, and the boot screen GTX 980 is coming from macvidcards soon..
 
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apfelmann said:
That's good news for all the doubters (me included)!
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By running at 30-70FPS, in practice, it's stuttering constantly.. lol You have to run at 60fps with vsync enabled and then you can say it's not stuttering. 😛

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antipodean said:
I played several hours of skyrim (1440p ultra) last night on my 2013 i7/780M. Max GPU temp was 70C. Max CPU 71C. Maybe not the most demanding game, but hopefully a useful data point for you.
Click to expand...

Be sure you have a temp monitor open the entire gaming session. Closing out the game then checking the temps wont work. (not just towards you, just saying this to everyone)
 
I still have no clue why Apple couldn't just use 980m which has roughly the same performance as desktop R9-290 and has 100w TDP instead of this heat-generating throttling BS which desktop-counterpart is even slower than R9-290/980m
 
Serban said:
After playing league of legends my temp were under 85c..so no problem with 295x under osx
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It's absolutely no problem to bring it up to 105°C. At least for me:

A7FEC.png


That's ~2min after starting Epic's VehicleGame (UE4).
 
ha1o2surfer said:
By running at 30-70FPS, in practice, it's stuttering constantly.. lol You have to run at 60fps with vsync enabled and then you can say it's not stuttering. 😛

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Be sure you have a temp monitor open the entire gaming session. Closing out the game then checking the temps wont work. (not just towards you, just saying this to everyone)
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Understood. I did have temp monitor running whole time (output shows max min and average). I gave max above.

Bootcamp win8.1 no fan adjustment, fans inaudible throughout, but room fairly cool (19-20C).
 
antipodean said:
Understood. I did have temp monitor running whole time (output shows max min and average). I gave max above.

Bootcamp win8.1 no fan adjustment, fans inaudible throughout, but room fairly cool (19-20C).
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That is incredibly great performance for skyrim. Awesome news!
 
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