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American Airlines Receives FAA Approval for iPads in Cockpit
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VERY DANGEROUS!!!
If there is an atomic explosion nearby, the electromagnetic pulse will knock out the iPads and, boy, will they be in trouble then.
I think...if there's a nuclear explosion nearby, you'd be in trouble anyways! If the plane is far enough to survive the shockwave, it will lose most of it's electronics. To include the control logic for the control surfaces. There is a trend to move towards fiberglass for data-transfer which is not affected by EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse), but there is still logic necessary to translate the received data. If it is not protected enough, the plane will lose control. The only aircraft that I know of that is EMP-proof is the Eurocopter Tigre gunship. I would imagine that modern aircraft like the F-22 and F-35 are/will be EMP-proof. I would be disappointed if they weren't.
The difference I believe lies in the fact that it is now approved to be used as the primary and sole chart reference. Leaving behind the paper, which wasn't allowed earlier. If you left your paper behind before, you were doing so illegally (though I do understand why you would have).
I've done tons of Jeppesen updates myself and I loathed it. Your point is partially valid in that you need to keep up to date on changes to approaches you use. However, far too often, I've encountered errors in the kit. Mainly people performing updates and making mistakes. I'm sure, although I did my best not to, I made some too. The chance to make a mistake is now liminated to only one source (Jeppesen). The app will warn you when you need to update and it will update easily.
There safety is improved, fuel economy (though fractional) is improved. The upgrade will pay for itself, both financially and environmentally (production cost measured as energy).
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This iPad has been tested (I'm sure) for interference with on-board systems. Since it is probably unmodified, it is safe to assume that the use of an iPad2 by passengers has no effect either, however, this cannot be said (yet) for other tablets. Since cabin crew cannot oversee the cabin to selectively target passengers to stow away their electronic devices, the rule (rightfully so) is to generalize all devices during take-off and landing.
I doubt that any carrier will do so for a while yet. The liability in the case of a crash... man.
I mean, the only practical way, without paper, to get around a failure of all EFBs is to print out new info from a fax or backup storage device.
You can imagine the extra workload finding and printing the right documents during an emergency, and that's assuming the printing device even works.
Imagine trying to print out emergency ditching instructions when your engines fail and all you have is a ram generator for a few instruments... and you've got just moments to do it. Asking for a company fax sure won't cut it.
Or finding and printing out an approach chart, etc. You can imagine even more scenarios where a paperless cockpit would be an invitation to disaster.
Sure, losing both EFBs is a "remote possibility", but then, doesn't that exactly describe one of the chain of events in almost every airplane crash?
Regards.
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I'm not necessarily talking about custom EFBs. Publicly available EFB software for regular tablets has been around for at least a decade, if not longer. Heck, charter carriers have been using PCs since 1995 or so, and FedEx first deployed a COTS laptop in 1991.
All of those criteria applied to the iPad as well. It had to go through the exact same certification process as any other COTS computer.
Again, the main thing "new" here is that Apple happens to be the maker.
Why are the old ones "long gone" when you're replacing them? And if you're not noticing changes, then you're probably not complying with the primary directive to have "all available information" before flying
Personally I found it quite handy to notice that there's a new obstacle is in a landing path. But yeah, a lot of pilots just mass replace them and depend on NOTAMs if they exist.
I agree, although I don't think this is being done yet.
Perhaps one day.
It hasn't happened so far in the 20 some years since pilots started using portable computers in the cockpit.
I have seen some of those past EFB's and they where never a pretty picture.
Laptops where still large, bulky, possibly heavy, and rarely had battery life longer then 3 hours. Those that used Palm or WinCE/PocketPC OS, some with GPS, had a small screen and limited memory (and battery) but was certainly easier to work with then laptops. In short the hardware was not ideal.
Of course this is hind sight but the magic formula was light weight (and thin), long battery life, GPS, big screen, with gobs of memory and a powerful CPU to do it all.
Jobs made it happen, and it happens to be great for a whole bunch of tasks.
Changes to chart or plate are not easy to see sometimes, and it is better to simply review the entire object again then hunt for changes.
The problem with EFB's is that they are simply digital pictures (.jpg's) of the paper ones!
Why can't it be fully interactive, showing all shorts of info on request, even laying over the wind direction and speed, pattern alt, etc? Those software developers are not really thinking out of the box, are they. I basically see digitizing of traditional flight planning, not planning based on origin -> destination.
For example:
2 weeks ago I did a 8 hour flight, and one of the things I noticed is no range calculation based on power settings. For that I need to open my OM and read up a crude table on % power vs GPH.
Another item was Winds Aloft. I sent a lot of time considering what alt and direction I should fly to take the most advantage of that bit of info. It would be nice if it suggested the course.
ForeFligth and MyCast did not have notes on MOA either (that I found), had to look in sectional to find that info.
Or for that matter what freq I need to use.
Much can be done.
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I think you are over reacting, and not seeing alternatives.
Emergency will always have to be on paper, but not routine becuase its not an emergency!
And why print paper in cockpit? A set for the flight with emergency alternatives can be printed at the airport to take in cockpit.
*grin* Everything is relative. It was state of the art at the time. Heck, ten years from now, the current iPad will be seen as ridiculously slow and heavy compared to future paper thin displays or holographic projections or direct retina video injection
At the time, that's what we thought we had, compared to the previous ... nothing
I used a convertible tablet with a serial port GPS puck. The laptop was plugged into the lighter socket. Some of my friends were using Windows CE PDAs. Again, it was all state of the art at the time, just as the iPad is now, but nothing stays that way.
Ah. My point was that just knowing there was a change... because of having to replace a known airport... heightened my awareness.
I totally agree. Right now, the FAA seems a bit leery of the idea of too much info overloading the user. Younger administrators will change that
Edit: You're right and now I remember why I wrote that. It was because I misread the FAA's recommendation to upload emergency instructions to the cockpit to cover dead EFBs. I thought they meant during the emergency, but now I realize they meant before take-off as you suggested. Sigh. Getting old!
In any case, the upshot is that it appears there will always be a paper backup around... just perhaps a lot less of it at one time.
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You gave an interesting and informative answer to my silly joke.
I put enough smilies in the post to make clear it was a joke, but thanks for the cogent reply to my jest.
You gave an interesting and informative answer to my silly joke.
I put enough smilies in the post to make clear it was a joke, but thanks for the cogent reply to my jest.
Yes, despite that you made a joke, I'm sure many people out there do come to wonder whether or not it is a true statement. Had I not acquired more knowledge, I may have been one of them.
Some things I've noticed in the posts:
Dead battery: Very unlikely. iPad will be powered (charged) in the cockpit. If that system fails, you will have 10 hours of use. If you keep it standy most of the flight, it will have ample juice for any commercial flight to complete from start to finish.
Emergency: I think that this type of EFB can excel for in-flight emergency situations. Selecting nearest suitable airport for instance (may need software updates/revisions). Or continuously depicting the name, direction and distance to nearest suitable emergency airport.
I would much rather be in an emergency situation where I don't have to go and look into the Jeppesen kit (thousands of pages for one region) to try and find at the info and approaches of the nearest suitable emergency field.
Also, if I'd have to look into the flight-manual or Minimum Equipment List (MEL) to find help to deal with an emergency, I'd much rather do that on an electronic device due to the ability to search by keywords and use links within the document or multiple documents to get to the right information quickly. Didn't read about this feature, but I assume they already have it implemented or will have it in due time.
Pattern altitude: This news was pertaining the IFR Jeppesen kit. While flying IFR, pattern altitude is merely a nice to know item in my opinion.
JPEG scans: This app isn't merely a scanned version of the plates themselves. They are vector-graphic based depictions. So, no matter how far you zoom in, the lines/curves will still be sharp and crisp.
Extra info: The display of real-time info like wind-vector etc, would require an internet connection or connection to on-board systems other than just electric power. The internet connection would require to be one that will have restrictions to achieve certification as it may not come from an internet-source that is shared by the passengers. You don't want some hacker in the back, or hacked in through the internet being able to feed the plane with erroneous info.
The second source of information (from on-board systems) makes certification more difficult too (more expensive).
An internet connection, or other networked connection would give more interesting possibilities like real-time display of aircraft in a certain region. No need to have a radar for that then (most planes have a weather-radar only, if the even have that). It would be possible to display actual location of dangerous weather, predicted location of dangerous weather and stuff like that.
Dead battery: Very unlikely. iPad will be powered (charged) in the cockpit. If that system fails, you will have 10 hours of use. If you keep it standy most of the flight, it will have ample juice for any commercial flight to complete from start to finish.
Emergency: I think that this type of EFB can excel for in-flight emergency situations. Selecting nearest suitable airport for instance (may need software updates/revisions). Or continuously depicting the name, direction and distance to nearest suitable emergency airport.
I would much rather be in an emergency situation where I don't have to go and look into the Jeppesen kit (thousands of pages for one region) to try and find at the info and approaches of the nearest suitable emergency field.
Also, if I'd have to look into the flight-manual or Minimum Equipment List (MEL) to find help to deal with an emergency, I'd much rather do that on an electronic device due to the ability to search by keywords and use links within the document or multiple documents to get to the right information quickly. Didn't read about this feature, but I assume they already have it implemented or will have it in due time.
Pattern altitude: This news was pertaining the IFR Jeppesen kit. While flying IFR, pattern altitude is merely a nice to know item in my opinion.
JPEG scans: This app isn't merely a scanned version of the plates themselves. They are vector-graphic based depictions. So, no matter how far you zoom in, the lines/curves will still be sharp and crisp.
Extra info: The display of real-time info like wind-vector etc, would require an internet connection or connection to on-board systems other than just electric power. The internet connection would require to be one that will have restrictions to achieve certification as it may not come from an internet-source that is shared by the passengers. You don't want some hacker in the back, or hacked in through the internet being able to feed the plane with erroneous info.
The second source of information (from on-board systems) makes certification more difficult too (more expensive).
An internet connection, or other networked connection would give more interesting possibilities like real-time display of aircraft in a certain region. No need to have a radar for that then (most planes have a weather-radar only, if the even have that). It would be possible to display actual location of dangerous weather, predicted location of dangerous weather and stuff like that.
Foreflight does show MOA and other SFOs by simply tapping and holding within the area. Here's a screenshot showing weather, winds aloft and the Gamecock MOA information. Tapping the field show additional information, including frequencies where applicable.
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To be fair, the 'plates' in the Jepp app are not vector depictions... although they are of high enough resolution for it not to matter. The enroute charts, however, are indeed vector graphics and as you zoom in, more detail appears.
All the other apps that use NOS charts (Foreflight, Garmin Pilot My-Cast, WingX, etc) use high resolution scans for both charts and approach plates.
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Never say never. In fact, I'd say it's a good probability. Consider:
If, as with some other airlines, the iPads are handed out to each pilot, then yes a crew could easily board with dead iPads, plug them in, then need them soon afterwards. If the power source fails (or you have to turn if off because of say, smoke in the cockpit), then they'll run out of juice much quicker.
Not in this case of course, since they're mostly being used as e-books with no inputs. Also, those are Type B applications and I'm not sure they're certified for those yet. Have to look.
Hmm. A pilot might be smart to bring their own personal device onboard in case of emergency. As you know, thousands of private pilots use personal computers and handhelds for what you're talking about, all the time. It's like the way I always carried my own handheld aviation transceiver with localizer, just in case. You can never have too many backups
Yes, it would be smart to bring your own device (if they have an iPad at least). However, it is questionable that Jeppesen will allow pilots to have an updated subscription on their personal devices as well. I'm sure they'll make the airlines pay for that, which I doubt they will (those subscriptions are not cheap), unless they successfully negotiate that during the purchase of such a mass-license.
I just thought of another consideration: exploding batteries. It's happened before in mobile devices. Also with iPods, iPhones and iPhone 4(S)s. That could become nasty (possible hot battery fluids/shattered glass spraying through the cockpit, fire-hazard, startling the pilot(s) with the bang).
I just thought of another consideration: exploding batteries. It's happened before in mobile devices. Also with iPods, iPhones and iPhone 4(S)s. That could become nasty (possible hot battery fluids/shattered glass spraying through the cockpit, fire-hazard, startling the pilot(s) with the bang).
*grin* Everything is relative. It was state of the art at the time. Heck, ten years from now, the current iPad will be seen as ridiculously slow and heavy compared to future paper thin displays or holographic projections or direct retina video injection
At the time, that's what we thought we had, compared to the previous ... nothing
I used a convertible tablet with a serial port GPS puck. The laptop was plugged into the lighter socket. Some of my friends were using Windows CE PDAs. Again, it was all state of the art at the time, just as the iPad is now, but nothing stays that way.
Yes, never does, but the iPad and other tabs finally hit the magic point of ideal hardware. Of course it will get better, but now we have something affordable, easy to use, and even MORE useful when not in airplane!
(Angry Birds as home!! yuk yuk yuk)
PS, I applaud you pioneers of early EFB's. At the very least it created a foundation of developers and designers ready to seize the moment.
I totally agree. Right now, the FAA seems a bit leery of the idea of too much info overloading the user. Younger administrators will change that
Edit: You're right and now I remember why I wrote that. It was because I misread the FAA's recommendation to upload emergency instructions to the cockpit to cover dead EFBs. I thought they meant during the emergency, but now I realize they meant before take-off as you suggested. Sigh. Getting old!
In any case, the upshot is that it appears there will always be a paper backup around... just perhaps a lot less of it at one time.
We all get OMS, welcome to the club!
(OMS Old Man Syndrome) (Least you have a beautiful woman to make you forget!)
As to FAA fear of "Info Overload", simple:
Keep the extra info out of sight (plate looks same as paper version) until asked for (button in corner or something), just like Apple does. Ease the transition to new features as on-call, then as people get used to it make it standard.
The FAAs entire view is changing on these devices, more and more training is also relying on using tablets and computers.
AA using the iPads are just the start. And by the way, its not like they are using generic data or charts, they are using the same Jeppesen charts they have always used. The same that are provided to the US Government for navigation.
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I would run, Don't walk away from the aviation industry...
AA using the iPads are just the start. And by the way, its not like they are using generic data or charts, they are using the same Jeppesen charts they have always used. The same that are provided to the US Government for navigation.
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I would run, Don't walk away from the aviation industry...
I don't get why people are so anal about turning off their electronic devices for 10 - 20s minutes. It's like the rule don't apply to everyone and they are entitled despite the risk. If it means the plane will stay in the air longer if you turn your damn phone, iPad, laptop, iPod, Zune or whatever off then, YEAH turn it off.
You are right. I know that the USAF prohibits the use of Jeppesen charts. They have their own DoD FLIP (FLight Information Publication). Only in the absence of an approach of their own, one may request to use a Jeppesen chart which will be reviewed by some kind of board and give the go, if the procedure meets Dod criteria.
If I remember correctly, the USArmy does use Jeppesen, at least sometimes. I'm not sure about the USNavy.
Seems logical. Most things these days are going digital. I'm sure newspapers will eventually go digital so why not everything else.