An Apple Store Report (of sorts)

[CaptRB]

no sd card slot for photography professional is a complete non starter. its a complete joke.

Nope.

Professional DSLR cameras use COMPACT FLASH (UDMA-7) cards for storage. SD cars are usually for BACKUP. I'm a professional still life shooter and CF cards remain the standard. NO NOTEBOOK accepts CF cards without an adapter. In fact even my Quad Core i7 desktop needed a card reader.

So the lack of a SD card slot might cause a second of delay to someone, but not likely to be a professional shooter.

R.

 

[dark_mark]

Nope.

Professional DSLR cameras use COMPACT FLASH (UDMA-7) cards for storage. SD cars are usually for BACKUP. I'm a professional still life shooter and CF cards remain the standard. NO NOTEBOOK accepts CF cards without an adapter. In fact even my Quad Core i7 desktop needed a card reader.

So the lack of a SD card slot might cause a second of delay to someone, but not likely to be a professional shooter.

R.

99 percent of the professional camera's sold use SD cards. Yes, there are some niche cameras that use CF but they are less than 1% of the market.

 

[CaptRB]

rofl -- as I mentioned before, when I hear the term "pro user" around here, its an exclusionary and elitist term for "creative professional" where "creative" is strictly defined as manipulating audiovisual content. Obviously, there is a performance requirement for this type of work. However, I could care less about SD or legacy ports. I have always been annoyed with the plethora of different ports and not enough of the ones that you need. Personally, I am impressed that Apple had the courage to move to all the same port type. A single port type is the logical future.

And as a professional photographer, I can attest that Apple's move to these ports does not effect my workflow in ANY negative way. And my only non-wireless printer setup is a professional large format Epson photo printer. I put a 6 dollar USB-C adapter at the end of the existing cable (curse the heavens!) and done. I did the same to my 2 external drives, which I will soon replace anyway. Ports = no issue.


R.

 

[coolbreeze]

ITT: people use anecdotes to justify their purchase of the older model.

Neat!

 

[CaptRB]

99 percent of the professional camera's sold use SD cards. Yes, there are some niche cameras that use CF but they are less than 1% of the market.

PLEASE stop with this nonsense. I've been shooting as a professional for over 25 years and I'm close to many top shooters in the world. Nikon & Canon DSLRs continue to dominate the professional market. THEY ALL USE CF CARDS with SD as a backup only.

I own the latest gear. The ONLY DSLR I use that does not take a CF card is my Nikon Df and it's also a CONSUMER model.

We always carry readers. The biggest issue with laptops was screen brightness, which is why I now have two tMBP and will likely by a 3rd (15").

If you don't know what professionals use, look it up. Or check the specifications on a Nikon D810, D4s, Canon 5Ds, 1Dx2 and so on.

Journalists using prosumer cameras might rely on SD cards in their smaller cameras. So they would have to sell their cars, homes and kidneys to invest on a tiny 15 dollar card reader!

R

 

[Kenndac]

99 percent of the professional camera's sold use SD cards. Yes, there are some niche cameras that use CF but they are less than 1% of the market.

If you're talking about real professional cameras such as your Canon 1D series etc, those tended to use CompactFlash and are now starting to diverge info CFast/XQD, which means the bad old days of having four card types to deal with are coming back — hooray!

Now, the lack of SD slot is a bit of a pain for the vast majority of people who own cameras since the sales of consumer/prosumer ranges hugely outnumber the sales of true "pro" cameras, but if you're going to intentionally derail an otherwise useful and interesting thread, you might as well get your facts straight.

 

[Silvestru Hosszu]

I'm only an enthusiast photographer but I can confirm that all the cameras listed above are NOT using sd card or they are using it together with CF (Nikon D810 which I own).
It is annoying that we lost the sd slot (I shoot jpeg on SD and raw on CF) because it made the preview much easier but truth to be told, it is far from being a deal breaker for the vast majority of professional photographers who probably use CF/CFast or XQD cards.

 

[CaptRB]

If you're talking about real professional cameras such as your Canon 1D series etc, those tended to use CompactFlash and are now starting to diverge info CFast/XQD, which means the bad old days of having four card types to deal with are coming back — hooray!

Now, the lack of SD slot is a bit of a pain for the vast majority of people who own cameras since the sales of consumer/prosumer ranges hugely outnumber the sales of true "pro" cameras, but if you're going to intentionally derail an otherwise useful and interesting thread, you might as well get your facts straight.

We're talking about PROFESSIONAL CAMERAS used in conjunction with the MacBook Pro for professional requirements. That was the topic of the moment and no one was talking about soccer moms or vacationing dads with small cameras (most use cell phones anyway). Yeah, those folks will have to shell out a few bucks for a card reader.

But I'm talking about a professional photographer. We use CF cards and always have, dating back to Nikon D100 and Canon 20D. We now employ SD cards and micro SD for backup and drone shooting. For a professional shooter, card readers have been the easy and inexpensive norm.

The original comment claiming that pro shooters need an SD slot is SILLY. And the 15 dollar adapter doesn't make life any tougher.

Too many people here are making stuff up and getting caught.


R

 

[Carilyn]

I'm a professional photographer and have been since 2006. My pro body Nikon and Canon cameras used CF cards so I have always used a card reader from day one. I now use Sony bodies which do use SD cards but I've continued to use a card reader and purchased the usb-c Sandisk reader along side of my new MBP. Couldn't be more thrilled with my new laptop. The lack of SD reader meant nothing to me.

 

[edenorchestra]

The lack of SD reader meant nothing to me.

You said it sister!

 

[chriscrowlee]

Well, happy holidays and yesterday was so much fun!

One of my friends, who was over for dinner last night, works at the Apple Store (at the Grove) here in LA. She and I are often playfully at war because I much prefer Android over iPhones.

What's interesting is that she has heard virtually NOTHING about issues with the new tMBP. She's only seen a few returns and no one has complained about battery life. Nor has their been returns for glitches or keyboard defects. She did know about the CR article, but she's had no issues in-store over it. Few people even KNEW about it (which I found shocking).

She doesn't get overall sales figures, but at her store the new MacBooks are selling "like crazy." She says it's seeing (at her store) the highest level of multi-unit sales to individuals in the stores history.

Always interesting to see what's happening off-line. We tend to get a sense that people with issues or even loving a product is represented on the net, but it's really a rather small part of the picture.

I own two of the 13" tMBP units and I find them to be close to ideal (so far).

You mean the media's yellow journalism stories aren't true? Shock!
[doublepost=1482864013][/doublepost]

ITT: people use anecdotes to justify their purchase of the older model.

Neat!

People who can't afford a BMW often make themselves feel better about it by calling them overpriced, waste of money, or inferior in some way to whatever they can afford.
[doublepost=1482864247][/doublepost]

I don't expect those minimum wage store employees to know anything about returns of MBP. Especially since most people ordered online anyway and will be returning online too. There are very few of them in stock at physical stores to return anyway. When you don't have them physically in stock, you won't have any returns. Common sense, no?

Common sense? What you said is absolute opposite of common sense.

Most people who order online take them into the store to return. They ordered online because it was pre order in most cases. Why would you box it up, label, and take it to FedEx when you can just take it to the Apple store and be done with it? Common sense, no?

And I think the "minimum wage store employees" as you call them would be SME's in returns, because they're the ones that see the stock come and go every day, and they see them when they come in, and they process the transactions. Obviously not hard numbers, but they know what sells and what doesn't, they know what tends to get returned and what doesn't.

 

[DarwinOSX]

What's interesting is that she has heard virtually NOTHING about issues with the new tMBP. She's only seen a few returns and no one has complained about battery life. Nor has their been returns for glitches or keyboard defects. She did know about the CR article, but she's had no issues in-store over it. Few people even KNEW about it (which I found shocking).

Wait, the people here who don't have one yet complain incessantly might not know what they are talking about??

 

[bjet767]

its an exclusionary and elitist term for "creative professional" where "creative" is strictly defined as manipulating audiovisual content.

I had to repost this statement and agree with whom it is pointed at, those few Apple haters who seem to think they are special and make up stuff to slam the product.

Now would I miss the SD slot if I used one regularly? Yes I would, but that doesn't make my "pro" use anymore special than anothers.

The battery life issue I believe is an OS problem and seems to have been fixed, at least partially, in BETA 3. I doubled my real time battery life when I in

 

[CaptRB]

You mean the media's yellow journalism stories aren't true? Shock!
[doublepost=1482864013][/doublepost]

People who can't afford a BMW often make themselves feel better about it by calling them overpriced, waste of money, or inferior in some way to whatever they can afford.
[doublepost=1482864247][/doublepost]

Common sense? What you said is absolute opposite of common sense.

Most people who order online take them into the store to return. They ordered online because it was pre order in most cases. Why would you box it up, label, and take it to FedEx when you can just take it to the Apple store and be done with it? Common sense, no?

And I think the "minimum wage store employees" as you call them would be SME's in returns, because they're the ones that see the stock come and go every day, and they see them when they come in, and they process the transactions. Obviously not hard numbers, but they know what sells and what doesn't, they know what tends to get returned and what doesn't.

Correct on every point and more...

Yeah, she makes VERY good money at Apple and she looks at most of the returns, so that ends that nonsense.

Very true about BMW. Before my SRT I drove an M5 and it's worth every penny in its own way. So is my tMBP. In fact I think Apple could easily have gotten more for these new machines because they're improved in so many ways.


R

 

[jerryk]

While I do agree that most Canon and Nikon cameras use CF cards (I have Canon 1dMK4 and 5DMK3) I do not agree that SD cards are not used in pro level gear. Maybe it is just me, but I am switching more of my shooting to my Oly OMD-EM1 and they use SD cards. It is freeing to be able to carry a light camera with 6+ stops of stabilization and get sharp handheld 2 sec exposures.

So while I love my L lens collection, they get less and less use.

 

[Kenndac]

We're talking about PROFESSIONAL CAMERAS used in conjunction with the MacBook Pro for professional requirements. That was the topic of the moment and no one was talking about soccer moms or vacationing dads with small cameras (most use cell phones anyway). Yeah, those folks will have to shell out a few bucks for a card reader.

But I'm talking about a professional photographer. We use CF cards and always have, dating back to Nikon D100 and Canon 20D. We now employ SD cards and micro SD for backup and drone shooting. For a professional shooter, card readers have been the easy and inexpensive norm.

The original comment claiming that pro shooters need an SD slot is SILLY. And the 15 dollar adapter doesn't make life any tougher.

Assume we define "pro" to mean "earns a living with their camera", not some elitist "spent more than $x on their camera".

Now, the thing here is, you're starting to get hyperbolic as well. Sure, the high-end Canon and Nikon SLR cameras all have CF (or CFast, or XQD) slots alongside their SD slots. However, the do actually have SD slots. Additionally, I know plenty of professional photographers who use high end Sony bodies — they're all SD only. Same with Micro Four-Thirds cameras. And before you go off the deep end and try and claim those cameras aren't professional, well, plenty of sports photographers like the longer reach and speed of cameras like the E-M1, and the modern Sony mirrorless cameras are pretty incredible. Even if we stay in Canon land, bodies like the 80D are very, very popular for video.

Just because you are a pro photographer who doesn't care less about the SD slot, doesn't mean other pro photographers don't miss it. When you're out in the field, it's a handy way of getting a quick look at your shots on a decent screen.

Hell, just as the new MBPs started getting into people's hands, the company I work at released an app that is literally for people who miss the SD slot in their MacBook Pros — and, this is where the important metric comes in — people are spending money on it.

But, this thread is derailed enough already, sorry. I'm out!

 

[CaptRB]

While I do agree that most Canon and Nikon cameras use CF cards (I have Canon 1dMK4 and 5DMK3) I do not agree that SD cards are not used in pro level gear. Maybe it is just me, but I am switching more of my shooting to my Oly OMD-EM1 and they use SD cards. It is freeing to be able to carry a light camera with 6+ stops of stabilization and get sharp handheld 2 sec exposures.

So while I love my L lens collection, they get less and less use.

I think there are plenty of pro shooters who are using various cameras that use SD and sometimes I'll shoot with just the SD card in my cameras (if I get lazy!). But an SD slot in a notebook doesn't make a lick of difference. It doesn't change workflow and even my expensive desktop needs a card reader.

The Olympus is a good camera!


R.

 

[dyn]

Genius staff especially have no idea about returns since they don't handle any retail returns whatsoever.

If you have no idea about those kind of things then you have been talking to the wrong people. Talking to the right people gives you a very big insight of the organisation you work for without you having to fulfil every possible position. Believe me, that's how I sometimes knew more about a department than the people working there (which isn't always nice, i.e. when there was going to be a reorganisation). Anyone who has worked in a small organisation such as a store knows how easy it is to be in the know of what others are doing.

In other words, there really is truth to the OP's story.

People need to realize that the vast majority of people buying MBPs arent "pro" users. They never will be.

Incorrect. People need to understand that most people don't know the nitty gritty details of what is a computer. Most people only understand the tools they are using which in this case are the applications that they use. There aren't that many pros that know what a USB-C port is or what 16GB of memory means. That's why sysadmins and IT departments exist

A real pro focuses on his business and let others do whatever they are good at. Doing it differently is considered to be a complete waste of time, energy and money. That's what sets a pro and an amateur apart.

no sd card slot for photography professional is a complete non starter. its a complete joke.

Since when do CF and CFast cards fit into SD card slots?

Let alone a pro wants to use an SD card slot on a computer. Super unhandy because then they have to make backups manually. Using an external drive with an SD card slot is so much easier because the moment you pop in that SD card it autobackups. All you have to do then is pull the data that you need off the drive and use it on the computer. For that a proper drive is simply faster than an sd card (CFast however...).

It's all about the entire workflow, not about some piece of hardware. DigitalRev TV had this section where they gave a professional photographer some really cheap and crappy camera to do a shoot with. Yet they all created the same kind of pictures (composition and such); only picture quality (noise, megapixels, contrast) was lacking due to the cheap sensors being used. You really need to go watch some of the "Pro Photographer, Cheap Camera" episodes.

The loss of the SD card slot is only annoying for consumers and vloggers because they use the (slightly) lower end cameras that use SD (plus all those action cams use it) and have a far more simplistic workflow. Or you could do what many already do: simply connect the camera to the computer (and for that all you need is a USB cable with the correct connectors on both ends) or smartphone (which would be via wireless; you can then use other tools such as Workflow to do some additional magic which means pulling the pictures off the camera, make some alterations and post it on some social network site...with 1 press of a button!). The problem is as big as you make it to be.

 

[CaptRB]

Of course there's no "problem" at all.

The new tMBP is just as versatile as the old one; you'll just have to add an adapter or two and then you can actually do MORE with these USB-C ports.

When I first learned that the tMBP didn't have a SD slot, I was INITIALLY annoyed. But I went ahead and bought the upgraded machine and it simply makes no difference. It's not taking me longer to do anything. My card reader now has a USB adapter at the end. That's it. That's the big difficulty.

And for my trouble I get a brighter and better screen, better keyboard, bigger trackpad, better sound....I mean the whole experience is nicer right down to the space gray case.


R.

 

[Hankster]

People need to realize that the vast majority of people buying MBPs arent "pro" users. They never will be.

Apple no longer designs PCs for Pro users.

This is 100% correct.

 

[CaptRB]

This is 100% correct.

Don't tell everyone working in the photography and film industry. Also, don't tell screenwriters, medical research centers and all of the folks making money with Macs, PCs and Chromebooks.

There's nothing unprofessional about a tool; only the person using it defines it.


R.

 

[Hankster]

Of course there's no "problem" at all.
The new tMBP is just as versatile as the old one; you'll just have to add an adapter or two and then you can actually do MORE with these USB-C ports.
R.

Clear indication you are not a professional user. I was a graphic designer and application developer for several years. I still have friends who are in the profession. They hate the new MacBook Pro. Why? It's not convenient nor is it powerful enough to run software that serious professionals need. Also, no one wants to carry around adapters. It's ridiculous. Use adapters for the Retinal MacBook, but you don't (or shouldn't) use adapters for the (what used to be) the most powerful laptop machine for professionals.

I don't care to carry around an adapter to transfer 1000 photos I just took from a charity. Nor do I want to be screwed when the adapter breaks. Also, none of my clients have a USB-C flash drive. They also do not have USB-C reader. I have four back up hard drives, none of them have USB-C connections. If you like the machine that's fine. However, there are a great many who do not. It is not illegal nor ill-advised to show disdain for a product which was changed to the point it is no longer efficient for many users.

I know of only one person who has purchased the MacBook Pro. He uses it for Office, email and streaming video. Yes, a professional indeed... However, I don't care if he likes it or not. That's his decision. At the end of the day people need to stop assuming what you think is what everyone else should think. Of course, that's hard to do sitting safely behind a screen.
[doublepost=1482880244][/doublepost]

There's nothing unprofessional about a tool; only the person using it defines it.
R.

You clearly have never coded for 14 hours straight, or stayed awake for 36+ hours to meet a deadline for a $1.5 million project. Tools matter and Apple no longer makes tools for professionals. The new MBP is basically an upgraded MacBook Air. But, keep telling yourself and your high horse that everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong. That's our society today anyway.

 

[jerryk]

I think there are plenty of pro shooters who are using various cameras that use SD and sometimes I'll shoot with just the SD card in my cameras (if I get lazy!). But an SD slot in a notebook doesn't make a lick of difference. It doesn't change workflow and even my expensive desktop needs a card reader.

The Olympus is a good camera!


R.

I agree I don't need a SD slot on the system.

Just wanted to bring up the point that having only SD card slots does not mean a camera is a point and shoot. I see pro shooters using the Olys or Sonys.

 

[chriscrowlee]

I think it's funny how many people think that pro only encompasses the 1/20th of one percent of professionals who use computers. 99% of working professionals use email and word and excel and their web browser.

So if you happen to be the tiny tiny minority working in a visual design profession you are pretty insignificant in the true market share of professionals. It's the MacBook Pro not the MacBook Visual Designer Pro.

Join us outside the bubble. This laptop is fantastic for 99% of the professional world. Don't like it? Bye!

 

[ixxx69]

Clear indication you are not a professional user. I was a graphic designer and application developer for several years. I still have friends who are in the profession. They hate the new MacBook Pro. Why? It's not convenient nor is it powerful enough to run software that serious professionals need.

Can you tell us which software the previous MBP could run that the 2016 MBP is not powerful enough to run (that serious professionals need)?

You clearly have never coded for 14 hours straight, or stayed awake for 36+ hours to meet a deadline for a $1.5 million project. Tools matter and Apple no longer makes tools for professionals. The new MBP is basically an upgraded MacBook Air. But, keep telling yourself and your high horse that everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong. That's our society today anyway.

IMO your flawed logic, stating falsehoods as truth, and lack of perspective is more emblematic of "our society today" than anything the OP has written here.

 

[Wando64]

Repairs? How old is this machine? I'm shocked.

Oh, come on, we all know these machines cannot be repaired anyway.