An In-Depth Look at Storage and App Thinning on the New Apple TV

[HoiPiet]

still blows my mind that there are consumers that take Apple's side on these issues. Just admit that they should have included 4K, but you will buy anyways. No need to get all defensive. Same with the 16GB iPhone. Everyone benefits if Apple stops this process of limiting a device only to have a better upgrade next year

My mind is boggled that people read that there is no standard that includes 4K, but somehow want Apple to produce a product that handles the variety of cobbled together delivery systems and somehow correctly guess the future, just because it has the treat that comes when Pavlov rings the bell.

I haven't read anyone that seems defensive despite the torrent of people who are absolutely certain that it is a dark scheme to produce profits. In one aspect they are right. By not having to constantly produce updates to deal with issues with all the "4K" products and have a busy and profit draining support load, they save money.

It's like reading the old thread when the iPod was introduced. The product was a joke and overpriced. You can buy an Archos Jukebox - sorry - I mean a Roku or an Nvidia or go with Amazon. Wouldn't that be better than imaging dark schemes and a decaying, declining company?

 

[HoiPiet]

I just wish apple would commit and support standards they introduce. The usb c port should be available on the new iMacs ...

Did you think that USB-C was an Apple standard?

 

[arkmannj]

I understand "why" app thinning could be a good thing. But I think it would be nice as the device owner to be able to choose how my storage is used. If I want to download the full contents of an app from Day 1, I'd like the option to be able to do so.

 

[cyberlocke]

A lot of talk about iCloud being able to reliably and quickly deliver content. That's great, but what about the ability of the users' internet connection to reliably and quickly receive the content. Large markets have fast and relatively cheap cable, fiber, etc., but smaller markets haven't always caught up from a price point. We're still paying more than $60/month for 5 Mbps. RIDICULOUS! And in my part of town there are no other uncapped, land-based options. Paying an extra $25 or even $50 for more storage for a device I'll have for several years will still be cheaper than upping my internet speed to make something like this work reliably.

 

[fithian]

Profit. We'll all buy this "4" and then replace it with the "5" ("now with 4K") as soon as Apple rolls that "5" out: 2 profitable sales instead of one.

Besides, haven't you heard around here: 4K is "stupid", a "gimmick", "a new version of 3D", "you can't see the difference," "the chart", "until the whole internet is upgraded", "until everything in the iTunes store is available in 4K", and so on... which of course will all immediately evaporate once Apple rolls out the "5". In other words, the anti-4K crowd won't bash Apple when they embrace it in this product... just as you won't see them bashing Apple for already embracing 4K in pretty much everything else they sell... including their most important product. It's only stupid here because this one thing from Apple doesn't play 4K.

I can record in 4K on my iPhone 6S Plus, and I can play it back in 4K on my 4K TV by connecting through HDMI, but I will not be able to Airplay 4K to my ATV4. My TV will upscale the ATV4 content to 4K, but it won't be the same. It doesn't matter that much to me, since what I really want is Plex.

 

[unplugme71]

The limit is 2.2 Gb on device with 20 Gb of additional on-demand resources

I'm referring to the app size. Not the bundle that can be downloaded after.

 

[unplugme71]

A lot of talk about iCloud being able to reliably and quickly deliver content. That's great, but what about the ability of the users' internet connection to reliably and quickly receive the content. Large markets have fast and relatively cheap cable, fiber, etc., but smaller markets haven't always caught up from a price point. We're still paying more than $60/month for 5 Mbps. RIDICULOUS! And in my part of town there are no other uncapped, land-based options. Paying an extra $25 or even $50 for more storage for a device I'll have for several years will still be cheaper than upping my internet speed to make something like this work reliably.

You are living wrong. Move to a better market

 

[kds1]

With storage being cheap nowadays, Apple TV should have come with bigger storage sizes. 64/128 would have been better. Oh well, not upgrading till Apple TV supports 4K anyway.

4k is such an overhype.

 

[sdf]

I understand "why" app thinning could be a good thing. But I think it would be nice as the device owner to be able to choose how my storage is used. If I want to download the full contents of an app from Day 1, I'd like the option to be able to do so.

Me too. But if developers are forced to write apps that comply with App Thinning, that could become a simple option later in the OS. The important thing is to get the App Thinning technology working well right away so users don't have to run with it in one position or the other long term for a decent experience.

 

[jeffottawa]

Can the new Apple TV play downloaded purchased movies without an internet connection (unlike the current Apple TV).

 

[MH01]

Did you think that USB-C was an Apple standard?

Of course not . Though when you make such a huge hoorah about innovation and USB-C being the future, maybe start adding the port to your devices going forward .

I for a rMB, and frustrated it's again the only product that has a specific port, with accessories that work on no other Mac

 

[Bonte]

Could it be that this cap is a plot by Apple to weed out the amateur developers? This is not for everybody.

 

[kds1]

Profit. We'll all buy this "4" and then replace it with the "5" ("now with 4K") as soon as Apple rolls that "5" out: 2 profitable sales instead of one.

Besides, haven't you heard around here: 4K is "stupid", a "gimmick", "a new version of 3D", "you can't see the difference," "the chart", "until the whole internet is upgraded", "until everything in the iTunes store is available in 4K", and so on... which of course will all immediately evaporate once Apple rolls out the "5". In other words, the anti-4K crowd won't bash Apple when they embrace it in this product... just as you won't see them bashing Apple for already embracing 4K in pretty much everything else they sell... including their most important product. It's only stupid here because this one thing from Apple doesn't play 4K.



This is generation 4 of TV.

i have a 1080p television that I bought Summer 2012 that I will not be replacing for a LONG time. So do a lot of others. Plus, as soon as every one pisses their pants and runs out and buys a 4K? It'll be 6k, then 8k blah blah blah blah. Once the resolution reaches a certain point, my eyes don't care anymore.

 

[AbSoluTc]

My iPhone records in 4k and so does millions of others... so there's a TON of 4K content. It's ridiculous that we won't be able to airstream it in 4K to the ATV. The new ATV even has AC WIFI now... I'm really hoping this will just be a software upgrade.

1 - There's a ton of BS content called look at my cat, dog, stupid siblings and or my child doing this funny thing. Yeah, LOADS of great content there. I'm talking about AMC, HBO, SHOWTIME, FOX, CINEMAX, FX, SYFY, NBC, ABC, so on so forth. Were not talking about niche items from Netflix with 15, 4K movies/shows and VUDU's 12 movies in 4K. For a WHOPPING total of maybe 40, 4K movie/show options available compared to the millions of 1080p options. 4K is NOT there yet.

2 - Have you ever air played your macbook pro and played a 1080p video or movie? It's not smooth at all. It's not bad but its not good. Same with the phone. It's acceptable but far from great. I can't even imagine air playing a 4K video.

The Canadian article you quoted is from May. That is Before Apple released the 6S, before Bell and Rogers announced Gigabit delivery, before Rogers announced 2 4K channels and before Bell and others delivered Gigabit service.

We have the pipeline, we can produce our own 4K content, 4K broadcasting is coming to Canada in January. Apple could have included 4K support for minimal cost to support their own iPhone sales and users but chose not to, as others suggested to wait for an update that will come next year. I doubt they will wait 2 years.

If VUDU and Fox can stream in 4K Apple should be able to. If Apple doesn't want 4K in iTunes, then still support it for the millions of 6S and next year's 7 users.

How do you know including 4K support would be minimal? What codec would they use to encode/decode? What happens when it's wrong or glitchy? Who are the consumers going to blame? The "standard"? Hell no, they're going to blame Apple. I don't blame Apple for not including something that ONLY 10% of the people will have by 2018. Your phone shoots 4K? EXCELLENT! How often do you play them on your TV? Rarely if any. Apple will not release another ATV next year. Maybe in a couple of years, yes or unless they drastically redesign it or are now going to put forth the effort it deserves. BTW VUDU has 12 movies in 4K. Fox, what 2? Is it really full 4K or is it 4KI or P? What's the standard that all companies are to adhere to?

4k is such an overhype.

It is.


I fully support new technology and welcome crisper, more detailed video but only when it's actually worth it. Right now, it's not. The hype train is full on and some people can't seem to get off. They're already talking about 8K. Where does the cost/benefit actually cancel itself out? To me, it's not worth it. I'll invest when there is something to actually invest in.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

i have a 1080p television that I bought Summer 2012 that I will not be replacing for a LONG time. So do a lot of others. Plus, as soon as every one pisses their pants and runs out and buys a 4K? It'll be 6k, then 8k blah blah blah blah. Once the resolution reaches a certain point, my eyes don't care anymore.

As I've posted several times now, those happy with a 1080p set would not be forced to buy anything new. A 4K TV would push 1080p or 720p or SD to anyone's non-4K set... just like a 1080p TV 3 did not force those happy with 720p to buy new televisions or download only 1080p video files from iTunes. Hardware capable of more would deliver 1080p or 720p or SD at pristine quality... certainly as good as this "4" will deliver the same.

I don't know why so many people imagine that buying a 4K-capable TV comes with a requirement that they dump the TV they already have. It doesn't. It just lets those who already have a 4K television join our little Apple party too (and get what THEY want too) instead of buying somebody else's box (when pretty much everyone else is offering 4K). Did the iPhone 6s force us to buy 4K televisions since it shoots video in 4K?

There is no downside for the "1080p is good enough" crowd had Apple gone 4K here. It would just be an added benefit for those that have already gone 4K.

And yes, 8K will follow 4K... just as A10 will follow A9 and iPhone 7 follows iPhone 6s, etc. Technology does progress. Nobody argues for Apple/Intel/etc. to halt the further development of new hardware. But, for some reason, we Apple people seem to want to freeze this ONE thing at this now 5+ year old standard... even in the face of Apple adopting 4K in just about everything else they sell.

 

[nepalisherpa]

4k is such an overhype.

Yawn. 4k whinge. You lose.

4K used to be an overhype, but, not anymore. We have 4K TVs in the house; iPhone 6S Plus can record in 4K; I have a GoPro Hero 4 that records in 4K. Since I have contents to watch in 4K, I would prefer a device to allow me to view them as well. Your situation/choice does not apply to everyone.

 

[kds1]

As I've posted several times now, those happy with a 1080p set would not be forced to buy anything new. A 4K TV would push 1080p or 720p or SD to anyone's non-4K set... just like a 1080p TV 3 did not force those happy with 720p to buy new televisions or download only 1080p video files from iTunes. Hardware capable of more would deliver 1080p or 720p or SD at pristine quality... certainly as good as this "4" will deliver the same.

I don't know why so many people imagine that buying a 4K-capable TV comes with a requirement that they dump the TV they already have. It doesn't. It just lets those who already have a 4K television join our little Apple party too (and get what THEY want too) instead of buying somebody else's box (when pretty much everyone else is offering 4K). Did the iPhone 6s force us to buy 4K televisions since it shoots video in 4K?

There is no downside for the "1080p is good enough" crowd had Apple gone 4K here. It would just be an added benefit for those that have already gone 4K.

And yes, 8K will follow 4K... just as A10 will follow A9 and iPhone 7 follows iPhone 6s, etc. Technology does progress. Nobody argues for Apple/Intel/etc. to halt the further development of new hardware. But, for some reason, we Apple people seem to want to freeze this ONE thing at this now 5+ year old standard... even in the face of Apple adopting 4K in just about everything else they sell.

Who said they believed that a 4K AppleTV would force them to buy a new TV? I didn't. Also, the difference between processor chips and screen resolution is the appreciation of the resolution is dependent on human eyeballs. Bad analogy.

P.S. You'll get your 4K eventually, so stop blue-balling over it. You won't suffer in the meantime.

"But I want it NOW daddy, I want it NOW" Bad egg, down the hatch...

 

[meegwell]

1080p at 60fps is fine for now. At least for me.

And probably 99% of all users (willing to admit it)...

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Who said they believed that a 4K AppleTV would force them to buy a new TV? I didn't. Also, the difference between processor chips and screen resolution is the appreciation of the resolution is dependent on human eyeballs. Bad analogy.

I read that in this...

i have a 1080p television that I bought Summer 2012 that I will not be replacing for a LONG time. So do a lot of others. Plus

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding but it sounds like you don't want to replace a 1080p set you purchased a few years ago? Or maybe you are just sharing that to imply that a 4K TV would require others to buy a 4K TV and throw out their perfectly good set as part of the anti-4K spin? You (or they) wouldn't have to dump a perfectly good 1080p (or 720p) HDTV had this been capable of 4K. And that was the point.

Of course, any analogy is going to be "a bad one" when it doesn't support a single-minded view. How about "retina"? Apple spun the original retina as the limits of what human eyes can see. Then, later on, Apple rolled out "retina HD". Where were you then to bash Apple for upping resolutions BEYOND what human eyeballs can see per their own claims? That never happens around here. Instead, whatever Apple has for sale now is the one correct thing that everyone should want and any other consumer wants be d*mned. Later, when Apple shifts to something else (often some of those very same customer wants previously called out as stupid, gimmick, abominations, useless, etc), it becomes the new perfect option for all. See "perfect" smart phone screen sizes, NFC, or even 1080p TV, etc sentiment before and after Apple embraced such changes.

This one is pretty much a perfect repeat of group sentiment before Apple embraced 1080p in TV3. Same anti-(resolution) arguments, same rationale, same "you can't see the difference", same "I just bought a 720p HDTV and won't throw it away", etc. Then Apple did launch the "3" and all that sentiment against 1080p just evaporated. Apple was not called out as stupid for adopting the (then) "gimmick" of 1080p... and the internet didn't break, and the iTunes store was not flush with 1080p options for everything (and still isn't) and 720p HDTVs didn't have to be thrown away, and so on.

Apple is a big, very, VERY successful company. They don't need an army of closet marketers working for free to try to help convince every possible forum member that what is for sale now is perfect in every way. If nobody buys another TV unit, Apple's revenues & profits would not even show it.

 

[skellener]

The iPhone is only a few millimeters thin, the MacBooks, iMacs and iPads are all ridiculously thin and they just made - of all things, the freakin' keyboard even thinner!!! So how did the AppleTV get so fat?? I'm not asking because it bothers me, I'm asking because I want to know, why it's treated differently?? Don't say it's because of the storage. These chips are not thick enough to warrant the size of the new AppleTV. I'm just curious why it was allowed to expand while nothing else is.

 

[macaximx]

The iPhone is only a few millimeters thin, the MacBooks, iMacs and iPads are all ridiculously thin and they just made - of all things, the freakin' keyboard even thinner!!! So how did the AppleTV get so fat?? I'm not asking because it bothers me, I'm asking because I want to know, why it's treated differently?? Don't say it's because of the storage. These chips are not thick enough to warrant the size of the new AppleTV. I'm just curious why it was allowed to expand while nothing else is.

A heat sink and a power supply board according to the ifixit tear down.

 

[tivoboy]

Bluetooth is just for audio. To my knowledge it does not have the bandwidth to stream HD video.

BT 4.x should do 25MB/s could be WIFI direct though which is 10 times that.

 

[kissmo]

Oh Great! I just found out that my Apple Remote will not have microphones because Apple will ship other remotes to the rest of the world.

Why is Apple advertising one thing and selling something else.... seriously??!!!

 

[xmlninja]

The apple watch has the issue of a weak processor, bad battery and not much storage because its so small....

However without the app thinning thing App Store could have exploded within apps day 1 if developers just could have ported their current iOS apps

 

[xmlninja]

I can record in 4K on my iPhone 6S Plus, and I can play it back in 4K on my 4K TV by connecting through HDMI, but I will not be able to Airplay 4K to my ATV4. My TV will upscale the ATV4 content to 4K, but it won't be the same. It doesn't matter that much to me, since what I really want is Plex.

You can record ****** 4k with your iPhone 6s. The bitrates suck.