An new entry-level Macbook Pro makes no sense

[ikramerica]

You see how thick the 14" is? The chassis is complete overkill for an M2. M2 can be run fanless. Nobody wants such a thick and heavy laptop when the SoC can be run fanless.

Have you seen the videos of the 14” fans running constantly for higher end tasks? It’s one reason I am looking to get the 16” where the fans barely run audibly. The 14” makes compromises with its much smaller fans and tighter confines. If you don’t need or use the power of the M2, it’s not an issue.

 

[Bug-Creator]

The Mini-LED screen and put in a plain M1, no Pro or Max.

I'm pretty sure there won't be any new Macs with any M1 variant.

Some options:
- keep the M1 Air as a low end at the same price but with bumped up storage or RAM and a have M2 MacBook around 1500
- introduce M2 MacBook(Air)s in 2 sizes
- introduce M2 MacBook(Air)s with more severe binning

 

[leman]

Have you seen the videos of the 14” fans running constantly for higher end tasks? It’s one reason I am looking to get the 16” where the fans barely run audibly. The 14” makes compromises with its much smaller fans and tighter confines. If you don’t need or use the power of the M2, it’s not an issue.

The chassis is only a problem if you put a full M1 Max and push the GPU hard — the GPU alone can use 50-60 watts! But we are talking about M2 here, another 20-25W part. Even the 14" chassis is an overkill here (it can easily dissipate 40+ watts of power).

 

[senttoschool]

Have you seen the videos of the 14” fans running constantly for higher end tasks? It’s one reason I am looking to get the 16” where the fans barely run audibly. The 14” makes compromises with its much smaller fans and tighter confines. If you don’t need or use the power of the M2, it’s not an issue.

That's not the point. Apple sold the idea of a thicker laptop to people for more power. These new Macbook Pros are thick and heavy. I have one on my lap right now.

Apple can't turn around say, here's an M2 in the same thick and heavy chassis. And it's barely faster than an M2 in a fanless thin and light Macbook Air.

It makes no sense to put a normal M SoC in a chassis this big.

 

[darngooddesign]

Apple Planning Five New Macs for 2022, Including Entry-Level MacBook Pro Refresh

Apple is working on five new Macs for launch in 2022, including a new version of the entry-level MacBook Pro, according to Bloomberg's Mark...

www.macrumors.com

We know the 13" M1 Macbook Pro is a dead end. We know the gap between a $1000 Macbook Air and a $2000 Macbook Pro 14" needs to be filled by something.

It can be filled by not comparing the 8/256 Air against the 16/512 MBP. The 8/8 16GB 512GB Air is $1450 USD; which sits in the middle of your gap.

 

[darngooddesign]

Apple can't turn around say, here's an M2 in the same thick and heavy chassis. And it's barely faster than an M2 in a fanless thin and light Macbook Air.

The performance optimized M2-Pro/M2-Max will be significantly more powerful than the efficiency-optimized M2 in multi-core tasks; especially when the fanless M2 Air throttles under moderate load. Thats how it is with the M1 chips; I could easily make the M1 Air heat up and throttle when batch processing 26MP Raw photos in Lightroom; thats a very common task for photographers.

PS. Just realized I responded to two of your comments, I wasn't targeting you specifically.

 

[Spock]

12-inch and 14-inch "MacBook" available in same colors as the iMac with design similar to new MacBook Pro but a little thinner starting at $999 for the 12-inch model. No more 13-inch MacBook Pro or MacBook Air.

 

[leman]

12-inch and 14-inch "MacBook" available in same colors as the iMac with design similar to new MacBook Pro but a little thinner starting at $999 for the 12-inch model. No more 13-inch MacBook Pro or MacBook Air.

Why would they sell a smaller display size at the same price? Literally makes no sense. They have been increasing the display size for a while. Just imagine all the negative publicity from such a decision.

 

[Spock]

Why would they sell a smaller display size at the same price? Literally makes no sense. They have been increasing the display size for a while. Just imagine all the negative publicity from such a decision.

The 14-inch MacBook would actually be the current MacBook Air model at a higher price with larger display, the new 12-inch MacBook would be the new entry level. Just imagine the negative publicity if they raised the price to the current MacBook Air like the rumors have been suggesting without something to fill that low-cost, entry level space.

 

[Jl006p]

You’re right, an entry level MacBook Pro makes no sense. However, remove the pro moniker and then it starts to make a lot of sense.

Give us something above a MacBook Air, but below the 14 and 16 MacBook Pros. The Air is an excellent machine but there are a lot of people who want more battery life, a better screen, a bigger screen, an improved cooling system, more RAM, and more ports. Furthermore, if there is a new “M2” CPU put into the next generation of Airs, it’s going to need a better cooling system. The current Air already throttles roughly 14-16% after extended use. Which is fine, but if you’re going to put an even faster processor into it on the same architecture, then the cooling system needs to be improved if the new CPU is going to matter at all besides marketing.

There are also a lot of people who don’t need a 14 or 16 Macbook Pro. Gone are the days where it was necessary to buy a 16” MacBook Pro just to get something somewhat powerful. The M1 is actually slightly faster than both 8 core processors that were put into the 2019 intel MacBook pros. Most people really don’t need more than an M1. There are a lot of people who don’t need a ProMotion XDR display, dual fan cooling system, extra ports, a big chassis, and an M1 Pro/Max. It’s all so pro and extra it’s pretty much overkill for most people. In fact, a 14 or 15 inch mid range laptop makes even more sense now that the Pros have so many extra features and are a little bulkier. You could call it an Air or a regular MacBook.

So:
-more ports than MacBook Air, less than a 14 or 16 MacBook Pro
-better screen than MacBook Air, but not the ProMotion XDR
-better cooling than MacBook Air, but not such a large dual fan cooling system
-thinner chassis than the 14 and 16 MacBook Pros
-better battery life than the 14 and 16 Pros
-for the love of God, more RAM. No one should be needing to buy a pro to access 32GB of RAM. This is not a pro feature.
-keep the entry level CPU with less GPU than the M1 Pro/Max. There are a lot of people that don’t need more GPUs.

There are some rumors that the new MacBook Air will have mini LED but I would be really surprised if Apple brought that feature down to the entry level MacBooks right away. That’s a stand out feature and I would bet on it staying on Apple’s mid/high end laptops exclusively for another year or so.

32GB of ram will always be reserved for "Pro" MacBooks.
It would be a nice option for Mac mini though. The old intel models went up to 64gb iirc.
Pretty sure more ports will also be reserved for "pros"

What we'll end up getting is basically what we have now, a MacBook with better speakers, mic, slightly brighter display and a fan. They won't do more than that to not cannibalize sales.

 

[Jorbanead]

I kinda get what your saying. But I wouldn’t say the current 13 inch M1 Mac book pro is a waste of money for a few reasons. you will notice an improvement in performance if you are coming from an older model of Mac book pro or Air.

You would see the same improvement if you get the MacBook Air though.

I heard the M1 13 Inch Air and Pro were very very similar. But given I had been using a 2019 air model, I went with the pro for several reasons. One of which is a fan.

The M1 chip is so efficient that the difference between having a fan and no fan is minimal. The only real difference between the air and the pro is battery (extra 2hrs) and a fan. For most users, even users using apps like photoshop, you won’t notice a difference.

You may be someone that will benefit from the fan, but my point is that 99% of users who are the target demographic for the Air vs Pro wouldn’t see any benefit from the pro.

 

[curtvaughan]

Yeah something this-ish. Even if it was an iphone with no cell service, less storage, an easier os to program and a few more ports. With maybe 1/10th the processing power. quality but CHEAP AS ****. not meant to be an entry level mac, but more meant for all the weird spots you might want technology but don't have a device for.

I could be wrong, but I doubt Apple will ever produce a consumer-oriented ARM device that would be competitive in the RPI market. A company that currently produces phones, laptops, and desktops costing around $1000 at the entry level won't be producing ~$100 Apple silicon devices as alternatives for Arduino and RPI hobbyists. Apple's focus is on high end, attractive, personal consumer level phones, tablets, and computers - most of which are not even user serviceable. For them to jump into the highly configurable and affordable ARM device market would take a whole remake of their corporate vision. An example of where Apple ran into failure by attempting to alter their course: their attempt to market the Mac Server. Not only was the Mac Server too expensive for corporate backend needs, its need for proprietary, closed system software and support did not fit the open software paradigm now largely dominated by Linux in the corporate world. Consequently, it started phasing out its server offerings back in 2018. To my knowledge, even Apple's iCloud services have been backended with AWS (Amazon) and Google cloud servers.

 

[leman]

The M1 chip is so efficient that the difference between having a fan and no fan is minimal. The only real difference between the air and the pro is battery (extra 2hrs) and a fan. For most users, even users using apps like photoshop, you won’t notice a difference.

If you need any kind of sustained performance (fully enough this includes gaming), the difference can be up to 20%.

 

[darngooddesign]

Why would they sell a smaller display size at the same price? Literally makes no sense. They have been increasing the display size for a while. Just imagine all the negative publicity from such a decision.

Assuming they would get Mini LED, its a more expensive display with easily seen benefits over the existing LCD screen. The 13" iPP increased by $100 with the inclusion of MiniLED, the 11" will likely increase by $100 when it gets MiniLED, and any laptop that gets Mini LED will increase in price. So its not just a smaller screen for the same price; its a smaller but much nicer screen for the same price. And there will be a larger MacBook for people who liked the size of the old Air.

 

[darngooddesign]

32GB of ram will always be reserved for "Pro" MacBooks.
It would be a nice option for Mac mini though. The old intel models went up to 64gb iirc.
Pretty sure more ports will also be reserved for "pros".

Now that Apple has the M1P and M1X SoCs, I think we can realistically expect a MacMini Pro.

 

[curtvaughan]

I just wish Apple would hurry up and produce the larger screened iMac using Apple silicon. I really need to upgrade my large screen iMac, but don't want the smaller screen offering. Just don't see the point in buying a new Intel based iMac right now. As for the new MbP offerings, I'm gonna wait and see if any significant bugs crop up over the next year. I haven't purchased an Apple laptop since 2006, when I bought one of the first Intel MbP's (1,1). That was/is a great laptop. It still runs, but of course hasn't been supported by Apple for years. I just power it up occasionally out of nostalgia. It's aged in the same manner as my old Klein Palomino mountain bike - obsolete by modern standards, but still a joy to maintain and occasionally ride.

 

[dizmonk]

Apple Planning Five New Macs for 2022, Including Entry-Level MacBook Pro Refresh

Apple is working on five new Macs for launch in 2022, including a new version of the entry-level MacBook Pro, according to Bloomberg's Mark...

www.macrumors.com

We know the 13" M1 Macbook Pro is a dead end. We know the gap between a $1000 Macbook Air and a $2000 Macbook Pro 14" needs to be filled by something.

Gurman says it's going to be an entry-level 14" MBP. This makes zero sense to me.

What can you cut from the $2000 MBP 14" that would make it more entry-level?

Cut the CPU Cores to 4 from 6? That would make it slower than an M1 since an M1 has 8 cores (4/4) to this potential 6 core (4/2). This is unlikely to happen.

Cut Pro Motion? That would destroy the simple marketing expectation that all Pro Apple devices have 120hz displays.

Cut RAM to 8GB? Can a "Pro" device in 2022 come with 8GB standard?

Decrease the number of GPU cores from 14 in the $2000 14" to 10? This would again, make it slower than a future M2 chip which is likely to have 10 GPU cores based on a 2x multiplier of the A15 5-core design.

Cutting CPU/GPU cores would also make having the bulky 14" chassis complete overkill. If it's barely faster than an M1, why would you want such a bulky laptop?

To me, I don't think it makes any kind of sense for an entry-level 14". I think it's much more likely that a 16" Macbook Air-like laptop fills the $1000 - $2000 gap.

I can't possibly imagine a 16" MBA. One of the whole points of the MBA is portability. By the time you've got to 16" you're undermining the appeal of the MBA... IMHO No chance.

 

[dizmonk]

Most of you seem to be making assumptions that price drives the product line differentiation but I don't think it does. and thus that first, we need something to fill the gap between the Air and the 14" Pro and second, that there is a large gap between the Air and Pro lines.

Taking the last point first, here's no jump from $1k to $2k unless you're just comparing base price of both models. But you can configure an Air as a $1649 machine simply by making it a 16/512 machine. It starts at $1249 and moves, in $200 jumps, to that price. The 14" Pro starts at, what, $1999? There's no $1000 gap, so any arguments that such a gap needs filling are incorrect.

IN any event, price bands are not a reason to have two lines, though, they're an effect of having two lines in the first place. The main reason for separate lines is needing differing capabilities and how a product line fits customer segments. The Air line fits the consumer and business segments - light weight, great battery and powerful enough for almost anything those folks do with enough overhead that you can do development, business analysis, etc on it. The Air product line is for the vast majority of people who use a Mac and because of that, while it needs very good performance, the ultimate in power simply isn't a requirement for that audience.

The Pro line is for people who need no compromise performance. Hours long video shot in 8K RED RAW. Audio with many tracks and effects. Scientific and architectural stuff. 3D authoring.

TLDR, it's not price that determines the lines, it's target market/feature set. Product line names should just reflect that. If I were Apple, I'd think about having two lines:

Macbook: The current Air in a 14" form factor. Very good performance in a light form factor with excellent battery. Tops out at 16g, 1-2T, 8 cores (this evolves over time)
MacBook Pro : The current Pro line. Can be configured with more RAM, has faster CPUs with more cores. Better display. Base specs start where the regular line tops out.

100% this. ?????

 

[darngooddesign]

Taking the last point first, there's no jump from $1k to $2k unless you're just comparing base price of both models. But you can configure an Air as a $1649 machine simply by making it a 16/512 machine. It starts at $1249 and moves, in $200 jumps, to that price. The 14" Pro starts at, what, $1999? There's no $1000 gap, so any arguments that such a gap needs filling are incorrect.

Yep. the 16/512 Air sits halfway between the base 8/256 Air and the base 16/512 Pro.

 

[thenewperson]

You see how thick the 14" is? The chassis is complete overkill for an M2. M2 can be run fanless. Nobody wants such a thick and heavy laptop when the SoC can be run fanless.

They're the same thickness. Also I'm not even sure what your point is? If they give it meaningful improvements over the M2 Air people will obviously take it.

 

[Jorbanead]

I can't possibly imagine a 16" MBA. One of the whole points of the MBA is portability. By the time you've got to 16" you're undermining the appeal of the MBA... IMHO No chance.

Why not give consumers options?

If you want portability and you fear that’s too big… then… get the 13”?

Also I feel they should do a 13 and 15 inch option.

 

[darngooddesign]

I can't possibly imagine a 16" MBA. One of the whole points of the MBA is portability. By the time you've got to 16" you're undermining the appeal of the MBA... IMHO No chance.

If you like a big screen, a 16" MBA will be a lot more portable than a 16" MBP.

 

[dizmonk]

If you like a big screen, a 16" MBA will be a lot more portable than a 16" MBP.

I can only speak to my experience. For example, when I'm at work (university) and I see everyone with a laptop I cannot imagine college students (or faculty for that matter) carrying around a 16" Macbook (anything).. .The university population is ONE of the targeted consumers for a MBA... Could I see a 14" MBA??? Probably... a 16" No...

That's just me...

 

[darngooddesign]

I can only speak to my experience. For example, when I'm at work (university) and I see everyone with a laptop I cannot imagine college students (or faculty for that matter) carrying around a 16" Macbook (anything).. .The university population is ONE of the targeted consumers for a MBA... Could I see a 14" MBA??? Probably... a 16" No...

That's just me...

I think it depends on the college students. A 16" MBA would be popular with design students.

 

[vadimyuryev]

It makes total sense.
14" Entry-level MacBook Pro.
Same Mini-LED Display with 120hz ProMotion.
Starts with 256GB SSD and 8GB of RAM, both of which are slower than in M1 Pro models.
Comes with the slower M2 chip with only 8-core CPU and 10-core GPU.
Comes with one fewer Thunderbolt 4 port.
Maybe only one fan. Speakers aren't as good.
$1399 or $1499 starting price.