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An Open Letter to Apple

gobikerider

gobikerider

Suspended
Original poster
Apr 15, 2016
2,022
1,478
United States
Dear Apple,

Over the past week I have tried three of Apple's MacBook's from the MacBook Air to a MacBook, ending with a MacBook Pro 13" with Touch Bar. As of today they have all been returned because of one simple reason, confusion. Let me start off by saying that every model had the capability to do what I needed, I was never without enough performance even on the MacBook's Core M3. The issue stems more from the fact that each MacBook simply left something to be desired. The MacBook Air has a woefully dull display. The MacBook while gorgeous left me wanting more ports and affirmed my need of a 13" screen. The MacBook Pro was seemingly excellent, aside from the knowledge that the keyboard could fail mere months down the road and on a $1800 computer I knew I wouldn't be able mentally let that go. Not to mention at that point I knew I'd simply overbought as I had no real need for the Pro to begin with. At this point I am confused because I have tried Apple's entire range of 13" notebooks and none left me truly satisfied with my purchase, something Apple usually is able to do in spades. I know certain issues that I have expressed are subjective and not everyone will agree, but I do think Apple's notebook lineup has become unnecessarily convoluted and even dare I say lacking with the recent quality control issues. I really hope Apple is able to simplify the lineup for 2018 and I will say the rumored refresh of the MacBook Air is certainty shaping up to be a great start.

Sincerely,
Concerned Consumer :apple:

P.S. I am well aware for the money, there is a plethora of Windows options available to me. However none seem to quite match the MacBook's level of build quality or battery life and I do not want to deal with Windows 10 anymore then I already have to on my personal desktop.
 
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gobikerider said:
Dear Apple,

Over the past week I have tried three of Apple's MacBook's from the MacBook Air to a MacBook, ending with a MacBook Pro 13" with Touch Bar. As of today they have all been returned because of one simple reason, confusion. Let me start off by saying that every model had the capability to do what I needed, I was never without enough performance even on the MacBook's Core M3. The issue stems more from the fact that each MacBook simply left something to be desired. The MacBook Air has a woefully dull display. The MacBook while gorgeous left me wanting more ports and affirmed my need of a 13" screen. The MacBook Pro was seemingly excellent, aside from the knowledge that the keyboard could fail mere months down the road and on a $1800 computer I knew I wouldn't be able mentally let that go. Not to mention at that point I knew I'd simply overbought as I had no real need for the Pro to begin with. At this point I am confused because I have tried Apple's entire range of 13" notebooks and none left me truly satisfied with my purchase, something Apple usually is able to do in spades. I know certain issues that I have expressed are subjective and not everyone will agree, but I do think Apple's notebook lineup has become unnecessarily convoluted and even dare I say lacking with the recent quality control issues. I really hope Apple is able to simplify the lineup for 2018 and I will say the rumored refresh of the MacBook Air is certainty shaping up to be a great start.

Sincerely,
Concerned Fanboy :apple:

P.S. I am well aware for the money, there is a plethora of Windows options available to me. However none seem to quite match the MacBook's level of build quality or battery life and I do not want to deal with Windows 10 anymore then I already have to on my personal desktop.
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I think you should re sign it otherwise Tim will be confused and think it's me!

I here what your complaints are and my advice is
Wait for the rumoured New MacBook Air or by an adaptor that replaces what ports you need from a MacBook.
 
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Apple fanboy said:
I think you should re sign it otherwise Tim will be confused and think it's me!

I here what your complaints are and my advice is
Wait for the rumoured New MacBook Air or by an adaptor that replaces what ports you need from a MacBook.
Click to expand...
Hah, yah the MacBook was honestly my favorite out of the three devices, with the largest issue being the smaller 12" display. As for ports the Apple USB-C to Digital AV adaptor could solve my issue. If Apple doesn't give us a 13" model of the MacBook I will probably get the new Air. I am hoping it will have a 16gb ram option, as I plan on using Parallels and the extra ram would come in handy.
 
Man, when I picked up a MacBook (space gray 2015), I was utterly shocked by it's size, sleekness, battery life, etc. I loved that machine. . . I didn't love the one USB-C port.

And the only adapter for HDMI that looked like it was worth a damn was the Apple one which allowed HDMI and charging at the same time, but the HDMI is limited to 30hz, which is great for a projector or presentations, bad for just about everything else.
 
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csurfr said:
Man, when I picked up a MacBook (space gray 2015), I was utterly shocked by it's size, sleekness, battery life, etc. I loved that machine. . . I didn't love the one USB-C port.

And the only adapter for HDMI that looked like it was worth a damn was the Apple one which allowed HDMI and charging at the same time, but the HDMI is limited to 30hz, which is great for a projector or presentations, bad for just about everything else.
Click to expand...
Wasn't that simply a limitation of the gpu in the MacBook at the time? I am fairly certain the new one can push 30hz 4k and 60hz 1440p or below.
 
gobikerider said:
Wasn't that simply a limitation of the gpu in the MacBook at the time? I am fairly certain the new one can push 30hz 4k and 60hz 1440p or below.
Click to expand...

Negative. It’s a limitation of the actual adapter Apple sells.

Ah, you might be right. 4K at 30hz. That’s the resolution I was looking for, not 1080.. that might be why I associated the entire thing with 30hz.
 
csurfr said:
Negative. It’s a limitation of the actual adapter Apple sells.

Ah, you might be right. 4K at 30hz. That’s the resolution I was looking for, not 1080.. that might be why I associated the entire thing with 30hz.
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If that adapter was limited to 30hz HDMI out at all resolutions it wouldn't be worth the $70 Apple charges :p
 
It sounds like you found the perfect computer and then panicked over some online complaints about keyboards. If you carry on this way you’ll never buy another computer.
If you go on any forum for any piece of electronic equipment you will find complaints about one or more issue “plaguing” said piece of equipment.

Any piece of electronics can fail at any time for any one of thousands of reasons. Get AppleCare get insurance and buy what works for you and maybe chill out a little it’s just a tool at the end of the day.
 
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Samuelsan2001 said:
It sounds like you found the perfect computer and then panicked over some online complaints about keyboards. If you carry on this way you’ll never buy another computer.
If you go on any forum for any piece of electronic equipment you will find complaints about one or more issue “plaguing” said piece of equipment.

Any piece of electronics can fail at any time for any one of thousands of reasons. Get AppleCare get insurance and buy what works for you and maybe chill out a little it’s just a tool at the end of the day.
Click to expand...
I can assure you I did not find the perfect computer. Keyboard issues aside, the MBA has a poor screen, the MacBook was too small, and the MacBook Pro was entirely overkill regardless of any other online complaints. As for Apple Care I buy it for all my devices but even then I may not have the luxury of being without my laptop for days if the keyboard were to fail and need repairing.
 
I think the OP has a point. The MacBook is a great computer for those of us who do not need much computing power. But Apple is wrong to assume that because we don’t need much computing power, we must be happy with a 12” Display. I am a “pro” in the sense that I use my computer for my work all day, even though my cpu nad gpu needs are minimal. I need a 14-15” Display (ideally) or at least 13.3” - but I do not want the extra power that the MBP offers (and I especially do not want the extra weight and cost that come with it).

Appe should go back to the grid:

2 MacBooks: 12” and 14”
(Focused on portability)

2 MacBook Pros: 13” and 15”
(Focused on sheer power - and maybe a bit thicker than the current ones if needed)

Then I’d know what I’d buy in a heartbeat
 
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Velin said:
The keyboard sucks horrendously. Flush the "butterfly" design; it's garbage and sucks for fast typists.
Click to expand...

I have the opposite experience. I type well into 70 words per minute range and found the new keyboard, after some adjustment period, to work much better for me. The shallow key travel actually makes it easier to type. The best by far is the new keyboard that comes with the iMac. The latest MacBook works great, too.

I absolutely love the new typing experience.

I am even more impressed with the iPad Pro Keyboard (Apple's version). I type equally fast on it and that keyboard has a really shallow travel. I was surprised how well it worked. So, I'm not sure I understand the concerns. I hear that some crumbs and debris can cause problem, but personally I have not experienced it.
[doublepost=1520995842][/doublepost]
gobikerider said:
Dear Apple,

Over the past week I have tried three of Apple's MacBook's from the MacBook Air to a MacBook, ending with a MacBook Pro 13" with Touch Bar. As of today they have all been returned because of one simple reason, confusion. Let me start off by saying that every model had the capability to do what I needed, I was never without enough performance even on the MacBook's Core M3. The issue stems more from the fact that each MacBook simply left something to be desired. The MacBook Air has a woefully dull display. The MacBook while gorgeous left me wanting more ports and affirmed my need of a 13" screen. The MacBook Pro was seemingly excellent, aside from the knowledge that the keyboard could fail mere months down the road and on a $1800 computer I knew I wouldn't be able mentally let that go. Not to mention at that point I knew I'd simply overbought as I had no real need for the Pro to begin with. At this point I am confused because I have tried Apple's entire range of 13" notebooks and none left me truly satisfied with my purchase, something Apple usually is able to do in spades. I know certain issues that I have expressed are subjective and not everyone will agree, but I do think Apple's notebook lineup has become unnecessarily convoluted and even dare I say lacking with the recent quality control issues. I really hope Apple is able to simplify the lineup for 2018 and I will say the rumored refresh of the MacBook Air is certainty shaping up to be a great start.

Sincerely,
Concerned Consumer :apple:

P.S. I am well aware for the money, there is a plethora of Windows options available to me. However none seem to quite match the MacBook's level of build quality or battery life and I do not want to deal with Windows 10 anymore then I already have to on my personal desktop.
Click to expand...

May I suggest you try each machine in the store first. I personally find it kind of abusive to buy every model only to return it. You could have learned all the points you made by simply trying the product in the store. I am not trying to pick on you or anything but that's how the rest of us ends up with crappy return policy down the road.

There really isn't anything confusing about the lineup. Maybe talk to the store employee. They are there to help you choose the right machine. Anyway... I hope you find what you're looking for out there.
 
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iMi said:
I have the opposite experience. I type well into 70 words per minute range and found the new keyboard, after some adjustment period, to work much better for me. The shallow key travel actually makes it easier to type. The best by far is the new keyboard that comes with the iMac. The latest MacBook works great, too.

I absolutely love the new typing experience.

I am even more impressed with the iPad Pro Keyboard (Apple's version). I type equally fast on it and that keyboard has a really shallow travel. I was surprised how well it worked. So, I'm not sure I understand the concerns. I hear that some crumbs and debris can cause problem, but personally I have not experienced it.
[doublepost=1520995842][/doublepost]

May I suggest you try each machine in the store first. I personally find it kind of abusive to buy every model only to return it. You could have learned all the points you made by simply trying the product in the store. I am not trying to pick on you or anything but that's how the rest of us ends up with crappy return policy down the road.

There really isn't anything confusing about the lineup. Maybe talk to the store employee. They are there to help you choose the right machine. Anyway... I hope you find what you're looking for out there.
Click to expand...
I am well versed in Apple products, I work in electronic retail as an Apple Expert. I also have used the devices in store before purchasing yet was still unsure of what to purchase, with little help from the Apple "Genius" who referred to the Touch Bar as a "genius bar". Also I could not fully test the performance of each machine in the store for my specific use cases as I need to install other software. Also I do not see how a customer using the return policy in a store effects anyone else. In fact the specific store I used would simply ban me from returning items if it felt I was abusing the policy, it did not.
 
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I'm pretty happy with my 2017 15", but the obsession with thinness has to stop. At least for pro computers. I'd venture to say the majority of 15" owners don't care if their laptop is a tad thicker if it comes with varied i/o. no hdmi or sd slot is pretty annoying for me.

as for performance though, the new designs do outperform the 2015 MBP. imagine these in a slightly thicker chassis and they'd be even better. not to mention more key travel on the KB
 
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Non-TB MBP seems like a viable option, doing away with most of the criticisms OP noticed in the machines they tried.
 
va1984 said:
I think the OP has a point. The MacBook is a great computer for those of us who do not need much computing power. But Apple is wrong to assume that because we don’t need much computing power, we must be happy with a 12” Display. I am a “pro” in the sense that I use my computer for my work all day, even though my cpu nad gpu needs are minimal. I need a 14-15” Display (ideally) or at least 13.3” - but I do not want the extra power that the MBP offers (and I especially do not want the extra weight and cost that come with it).

Appe should go back to the grid:

2 MacBooks: 12” and 14”
(Focused on portability)

2 MacBook Pros: 13” and 15”
(Focused on sheer power - and maybe a bit thicker than the current ones if needed)

Then I’d know what I’d buy in a heartbeat
Click to expand...
This. Exactly.
 
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gobikerider said:
I am well versed in Apple products, I work in electronic retail as an Apple Expert. I also have used the devices in store before purchasing yet was still unsure of what to purchase, with little help from the Apple "Genius" who referred to the Touch Bar as a "genius bar". Also I could not fully test the performance of each machine in the store for my specific use cases as I need to install other software. Also I do not see how a customer using the return policy in a store effects anyone else. In fact the specific store I used would simply ban me from returning items if it felt I was abusing the policy, it did not.
Click to expand...
People returning product pushes up the unit cost for the rest of us.
 
smallcoffee said:
Nope. It’s way better for typing than the previous keyboard. I have both 2015 and 2016 and switch between them throughout the day.
Click to expand...
My theory is that fast typists (70+ wpm) seems to like the new keyboard better (except perhaps for a few fast old typists who will only touch mechanical keyboards). On the other hand, most of the complaints seem to come from casual typists...
 
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va1984 said:
My theory is that fast typists (70+ wpm) seems to like the new keyboard better (except perhaps for a few fast old typists who will only touch mechanical keyboards). On the other hand, most of the complaints seem to come from casual typists...
Click to expand...

Or people who haven’t spent any actual time with the machine.
 
va1984 said:
My theory is that fast typists (70+ wpm) seems to like the new keyboard better (except perhaps for a few fast old typists who will only touch mechanical keyboards). On the other hand, most of the complaints seem to come from casual typists...
Click to expand...

It's a joke full stop, the whole premise was to make the MBP thinner not improve the typing experience. If these very low travel keyboards are of such benefit why are professional typists not using them on mass?

What's even funnier is how other can produce thin and light notebooks with decent travel and feedback, more importantly reliable. My notebook's are employed professionally, without a shadow of doubt Apple's butterfly KB is one of the worst I've ever personally encountered...

Q-6
 
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