Analyst Suggest Sony-Apple Partnership

[dicklacara]

... sigh

another month, another Sony - Apple rumor.

What is it this time? Apple buys Sony, Sony buys Apple?

Apple buys Sony music, Sony buys Apple music?

Next thing you know: Apple will be considered IBM compatible.

... wait a minute, The G5 does have the IBM chip !!!

Does that mean that Windows machines are no longer IBM compatibles?

That's the other shoe.....

IBM does not have an Intel-based (or a win-based) offering & they can't offer a desktop/laptop for 2 years.

There are rumors of an IBM PPC-based workstation... though.

So, where are IBM's Server (AIX or Linux) customers going to go to get easily-integratable desktop/laptops without all the virus baggage of win-machines.

Hmmm.... are there any 'Nix-based laptop/desktop machines out there?

Any that happen to use IBM's PPC chips?

 

[SiliconAddict]

Gah! What the heck are these market watchers trying to do!?!? Make Apple's stock hit the triple digits?!?!

 

[dicklacara]

Ow. That thread is full of so much ignorance and idiocy that I really want to hurt someone.

To be clear:
The Cell processor includes a simplified POWER core, including VMX (Altivec).
No "emulation" or anything will be necessary to execute PPC code on a Cell processor. The POWER core in the Cell is not a POWER 5 as has been suggested. Most of the fancy technology that makes a 970 or POWER 5 so fast has been eliminated or simplified in order to allow a very high clock frequency.

How do you know this?

It should be fast, but the 970 ought to be faster on basic CPU tasks and Altivec.

How do you know this?

The Cell prototype that has been displayed includes 8 vectorized cores. These guys are designed on a cool stream based architecture. They do vector calculations FAST. And thanks to the integrated Rambus XDR and Flex/IO technology, the Cell processor has about 100GB/s of aggregate memory bandwidth. That's a whole lot. What this means is that with certain types of data, the Cell processor is capable of HUGE amounts of calculations, a theoretical 256 gigaflops.

Using the Cell processor in a Macintosh will require a new motherboard/chipset. It will require a bit of support at the OS level, but that's how it is with any new processor and memory architecture. However, to truly leverage the Cell's power will require new software. CoreImage and CoreVideo are designed to leverage the vector processing capabilities of advanced GPUs... which are not that different from the vector processing units of the Cell. It is not infeasible that Apple would enable CoreImage/CoreVideo to run on the Cell's vector units, thus the most immediate benefit of using the Cell processor would probably be seen in applications that use CoreImage/CoreVideo.

This is a very good post, except I haven't seen enough details about the Cell.. other than IBM is running Linux on it!

Faster/Slower... doesn't say!

 

[radio893fm]

Let's just hope that SONY makes a Sound Forge version for MAC. That's easily the best audio editing software out there and its sad it is not available for the OS X platform.

Also, a version of Vegas Video won't hurt. As powerful as Final Cut Pro but 100 times easier to use and Real-Time rendering...

 

[SiliconAddict]

Was this really that unexpected? Seriously. There is NO reason why Sony's big man on campus should have been onstage to introduce a freaking video camera. I just about dumped myself on the MW feeds when I read that. It was kind of a letdown when it only turned out to be a video camera but that started the wheels a turning. Why was he on stage. Why did the guy fly halfway around the world to go to a gathering of users that compose only a fraction of the market? Something IS up. I don't know what game Steve is playing but it’s going to be fun.

Hmmm maybe PSP iTunes playback?

 

[maya]

Hmmm maybe PSP iTunes playback?

SONY, Apple and, MS are all competing for they own propriety audio coding. I do not see Apple letting SONY have iTunes playback for AAC as that would ruin iPod sales. Apple makes next to nothing with the iTMS anyhow.


Something in HD is up and that is a given.

 

[dicklacara]

Was this really that unexpected? Seriously. There is NO reason why Sony's big man on campus should have been onstage to introduce a freaking video camera. I just about dumped myself on the MW feeds when I read that. It was kind of a letdown when it only turned out to be a video camera but that started the wheels a turning. Why was he on stage. Why did the guy fly halfway around the world to go to a gathering of users that compose only a fraction of the market? Something IS up. I don't know what game Steve is playing but it’s going to be fun.

Hmmm maybe PSP iTunes playback?

Ya' know... in the rumor runup to MWSF there was this... this... multimedia box (forget what it was called, but there was a pic/drawing posted... about the size/shape of a mini, with no CD/DVD, but all kinds of A/V I/O).

Nothing came of it... except a lawsuit by Apple?

 

[Silencio]

It sure does have one.

Time to change what you think eh?

So techically the Cell does have a VMX unit. According to Part II of Ars Technica's overview of the Cell architecture, this VMX unit is pretty stripped down along with many other aspects of the PPC controller unit, so it's not going to provide the vector processing performance of a G5.

Apple could definitely use the Cell to power any number of theoretical devices, but I still don't see it as the CPU for a mainstream Macintosh.

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/cell-2.ars

 

[adamjay]

Let's just hope that SONY makes a Sound Forge version for MAC. That's easily the best audio editing software out there and its sad it is not available for the OS X platform.

amen to that. Anyone who's used soundforge for more than a year at a time, and then has to use Peak would agree that it is nothing short of hell.

More logical functionality in Peak would be good for me, but Soundforge on OSX would be a godsend.

 

[alandail]

why do people think Apple needs to rewrite anything? They have been developing 10.4 for over a year now, they have developed a lot of vector processing stuff for 10.4, stuff like CoreImage.

Which is more likely

- Apple had no idea the cell was coming and has to rewrite hundreds of man years worth of code if they want to use it?

- Apple knew the cell was coming and has been making sure all of the code they write is compatible and/or easily adaptable. Don't you think Apple already has 10.4 running in their labs on a cell prototype with things like CoreImage, Quicktime, H.264, etc, already up and running. And could that prototype simply be a Sony PS3 prototype?

 

[tex210]

Sony is a wannabe Apple.
The entire VAIO line (with all its proprietary parts, right down to the 'Sony only Memory Stick') is just a PC response to the 'sleek' look and feel of Mac with an Video Audio (hence VAIO=Video Audio Input Output) focus, also like Mac.

Sony helped design the early powerbooks.
Their drives were in early Macs.
They could be a good "other half".

 

[wdlove]

Apple will need a chip to follow after the G5. At the release of the G5 IBM said that it was working on the next generation chip. Maybe the Cell is that next generation chip. Sony certainly has worldwide marketing that could be helpful to Apple. The downloading of movies is bound to be in the future.

 

[relimw]

I dunno about this. What happened to AOL after the bought Time Warner.........

Well, the internet bubble burst, and AOL came down in flames. I personally opposed the deal given how much better TimeWarner's business was capable of, but the majority of shareholders thought it was a great purchase price. As it stands now, AOL and TimeWarner still have a good bit of infighting going on, and there's a chance they may break up.

 

[relimw]

If that is the case then Apple is very aware of what needs to be done in terms of hardware and OS X in order to deliver. Apple already has a 32/64 bit approach to OS X so I wouldn't put it past then to change that to a 32/64/Cell approach. The other interesting thought is that Cell would ease some of the pressure for faster G5 chips.

Don't forget that the last PowerMac was introduced around WWDC last year, and there haven't been any updates since then. I highly doubt Apple has been sitting around thinking 'Our customers won't care if we just come out with a 2.8 GHz speed bump on the top end. They didn't rebell when we didn't give them a G5 powerbook this time around.'.

After a year, I'd expect something fairly significant to be in the works whether or not it's a cell-based chip or not.

 

[runninmac]

Sounds awsome but i gotta go on a 2 hour drive so i will be reading it when im there!

 

[IJ Reilly]

SJ has not trotted anyone of the stature of the President of Sony onstage before and those of high but lesser stature were there to present something concrete about an Apple application. Mr Ando's presence was, and is, baffling to say the least. All that really came from that exchange was that Sony had a fabulously priced HD home camera and that Apple was demonstrating HD! All that was just fluff. It is the unspoken, or in Mr Ando's case, scrambled message that has given rise to the rumours. Something is afoot here and while everything is conjecture and may all be coincidence, THAT episode is more than likely going to have significant portent and I am now convinced after watching that exchange a few times that SJ was, in fact, telling the world something significant about Apple and Sony without saying a single direct word about what it will be. This might be SJ's best moment in theater when we look back on it.

Agreed. I felt at the time that Ando must be there for a reason, if not for a specific one then at the very least because Uncle Steve is romancing him big time. It sure didn't have everything to do with a HD camcorder. Ando sure seemed to enjoy bathing in Mac love, so much so that Steve had a difficult time getting him off stage. And another thing: Steve made his admiration for Sony clear years ago, and I assume he still feels the same way about them. Something is up. You can smell it.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Ya' know... in the rumor runup to MWSF there was this... this... multimedia box (forget what it was called, but there was a pic/drawing posted... about the size/shape of a mini, with no CD/DVD, but all kinds of A/V I/O).

Nothing came of it... except a lawsuit by Apple?

It was called Asteroid and was rumored to be a breakout box that would tie into garageband. AFAIK there weren’t any ties to Sony with that device but I could be wrong.

 

[relimw]

Using the Cell processor in a Macintosh will require a new motherboard/chipset. It will require a bit of support at the OS level, but that's how it is with any new processor and memory architecture. However, to truly leverage the Cell's power will require new software. CoreImage and CoreVideo are designed to leverage the vector processing capabilities of advanced GPUs... which are not that different from the vector processing units of the Cell. It is not infeasible that Apple would enable CoreImage/CoreVideo to run on the Cell's vector units, thus the most immediate benefit of using the Cell processor would probably be seen in applications that use CoreImage/CoreVideo.

First a common misconception everybody on this board seems to have: The so called 'Cell processor' is in fact not just a processor, it is more than that. I quote from IBM's own web page (own emphassis added with bold):

STI cell processor defined
Two years ago, Sony and Toshiba and IBM (STI) announced that they had teamed up to design an architecture for what is termed a system-on-a-chip (SoC) design. Code-named Cell, chips based on the architecture will be able to use ultra high-speed broadband connectivity to interoperate with one another as one complete system, similar to the way neural cells interoperate over the brain's network.

The Cell is a System-on-a-Chip, which is comprised of 1 PPC core, and upto 8 SPEs (other cores). The variant presented at ISSCC at the beginning of the month, was the version Sony has created for their PS3.

Now, as far as new software to take advantage of the SoC, that actually seems to be only partially true, although until IBM and Sony release additional information nothing can truely be confirmed. It is believed that simply recompiling with Gnu gcc4.0 will give the user a partial benefit, since gcc4.0 is expected to be cell-aware. I would expect for Apple to get the greatest benefit, a new kernel release would be required and additional APIs made available to take advantage of new features.

 

[digitalbiker]

Sony is a wannabe Apple.
The entire VAIO line (with all its proprietary parts, right down to the 'Sony only Memory Stick') is just a PC response to the 'sleek' look and feel of Mac with an Video Audio , also like Mac.

I think you got that backwards! Sony came out with the sleek thin metal vaio look before Apple came out with the new sleek Ti powerbook. Compare the TI to the previous G3 powerbook slug, the TI was a major change.

Don't you remember SJ comparing the stylish sony vaio to the new Ti when it was introduced. His whole presentation is how Sony did a great job of styling but that Apple could do one better hence the thinner, lighter, more stylish Ti.

Sony is bigger, has been in business longer, known for innovation and quality and Apple could benefit from this kind of partnership.

 

[Porchland]

I don't know if anyone posted this idea yet but doesn't it seem logical that apple and sony are working together to include itunes music store/maybe movie store too... into the next playstation 3. This would make the playstation a serious media player for not only kids but for adults as well, further increasing their sales (because the rents r the ones buying them). This is the year of HD and sony and apple might be coming out with some HD downloadable movies for your p3- To me this is logical because apple dominated the music download sector and they can easily do so with movies for their H264 coding is the s***

Downloadable HD movies would get around the lack of a consumer HD DVD player in the market, but that's only a temporary problem. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are probably going to be hitting the market with players and content near the end of this year. I wish one of them would die quickly, so we can dispense with the VHS/Beta-ish controversy and let people know it's OK to buy a player.

Downloading HD content to some kind of set-top box or through a network connection to the TV makes good sense for Apple (iTMS, AirPort) and for Sony (Columbia Pictures).

I remember that six months ago rumors were circulating around an Apple set-top box that would connect to your computer through the local network. Maybe Sony and Apple will come together on a wireless-enabled HDTV that can display content from the local network or surf for content online through the TV like you would Comcast's OnDemand VOD service.

The cable providers have already brought the VOD model to market, but Apple typically does a better job at improving what's in the market than coming up with something brand new. At any rate, the only HD content available is whatever the local cable provider has and what you get by hooking up your $3,500 HD camcorder directly to the TV. There's some openings here for Apple/Sony.

 

[minimax]

interesting to see a new alliance form to challenge the wintel platform.
It's clear what the 3 corporations have to offer:

ibm: HARDWARE ppc
apple: SOFTWARE OSX iTunes iMovie?

but what'll really make the difference is
sony: CONTENT sony music, film & games (PS)

my only question is: what's in it for Sony? Clearly for Apple it is a win-win situation if Playstation features a stripped-down OSX with iTunes perhaps included.
It will mean more gaming for the Apple platform, more exposure for OSX and iTunes in general.
Will sony dump it's strugling AAC-format?
Perhaps Sony really sees the PS+ as it's core strength. With Multimedia computing taking off in the living room they NEED to have the playstation there at the centre. But by licensing OSX they could bring in a troyan horse. If PS games run on Mac's as well they risk loosing their relative gaming monopoly.
Mac Mini could challenge PS3
Looks to me Microsoft has made a huge strategical mistake by challenging Sony on it's own turf with that XBOX and now yet again by surpassing Intel for their new XBOX architecture. What are they thinking??

 

[Object-X]

Don't forget about gaming

Don't forget about gaming possibilities too with the Playstation. Apple has always sucked hind tit when it comes to games; and now that I have purchased an Xbox for my HDTV, I understand why the gaming industry is moving away from the PC and more toward consoles. Also, the PS has been losing ground to the Xbox and so to merge with Apple and produce a convergence home entertainment device that runs the PS games and OS X digital media apps would be a nice counterbalance to Microsoft's Xbox and MediaPC convergence.

Apple can't afford to miss the boat here. Though I agree that the MediaPC is too early, it is not entirely out of sync with where things are eventually headed. It's about timing as much as it's about technology. An Apple / Sony partnership could see the production of a Playstation which runs OS X or at least syncs with it, and VIAO computers licensed with OS X and using IBM's chip. Remember the previous rumors about three major PC makers hitting Apple up to license OS X.

The writing is on the wall; Microsoft is dying and the industry is starting to figure that out. Read this to see what I mean. Perhaps it's not OS X on Intel, but OS X on a G5 sold by another company is about the same as the HP branded iPod. Apple stands to make tons of money off of the iTunes music store and having Sony, with their music library, in their corner makes good business sense; and it works for Sony too, they sell TVs and video cameras, cameras, ect. and all work seemlessly with iLife. Windows sucks and no matter what Sony does with their VIAO line, it will never be as good as Apple's offering.

Think about it.

 

[sw1tcher]

Ya' know... in the rumor runup to MWSF there was this... this... multimedia box (forget what it was called, but there was a pic/drawing posted... about the size/shape of a mini, with no CD/DVD, but all kinds of A/V I/O).

Nothing came of it... except a lawsuit by Apple?

I think you're referring to Asteroid which AppleInsider reported on back on Nov. 23, 2004.

 

[wwillie2]

Or, it's because he bought Apple at $86 and wants to make a profit. So, hmmm. What name could we partner with Apple to get the stock price to go through the roof? Hmm, Sony?! Sounds good.

I have zero knowledge when it comes to stocks and analysts. Are analysts even allowed to trade stocks? If so, how is that possible? How can you believe anything they say? Is it all based on "Well, Joe Stanley Morning Westerhouse says the stocks going up, and we all know how good he is, let's all buy it" Stock goes up. (Meanwhile, Joe didn't know anything special other than he bought said stock yesterday and wants to make a profit today) Seems like it shouldn't be allowed to work that way. Somebody clue me in, please?

And yeah, i wish i had bought Apple when it was floundering around $15, but couldn't put $$ enough together to by more than 5 shares. Pathetic!!!

The analyst most likely does own stock in AAPL. If he believes himself, he is probably buying more shares. If he manages a public fund, like many of the analysts, it is public information on what the fund buys and sells. I haven't checked this analyst or any related funds, but I do expect he owns.

I was fortunate enough to buy AAPL at $69 about 2 months ago. The analyst also raised target price estimates to $105. He is the 2nd analyst in the past week to raise target estimates, both of which targeted >100. So all those like me holding shares, keep holding cuz we are still on the way up. wuhoo!

 

[minimax]

Convergence between XBOX and MediaPC seems less likely now with the PPC based XBOX2. It would seem a logical next step but MS is either stupid beyond comprehension or they feel the sawing of the legs beneath their chair and betting on two horses. Problem is one of those horses is not their own.