AnandTech talks to Apple about mid '09 MacBook Pro/SSD issues -- Apple doesn't care

[Mazda 3s]

In his latest MacBook roundup, he has a whole page dedicated to the issue:

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3672&p=5

Here's a blurb:

It, too, doesn't work in the unibody MacBook Pro. Once more, I know because I tried it in my own personal system. In fact, the only non-Apple supplied SSD I could get to work in the system without constant crashes was Intel's 80GB X25-M G2 (I didn't try the G1 or the 160GB G2).

I asked Apple what was going on and the only response I got was that the drives I was using weren't supported. These drives work perfectly in my testbeds and in other notebooks and my Nehalem Mac Pro, but not in my unibody 15-inch MacBook Pro.

I've been a staunch advocate of Apple's hardware and software for years now, but this is a dangerous precedent that Apple is setting. The point of standard specifications is so that end users can buy any component adhering to the spec knowing that it will work in any system implementing the spec. This isn't an OS X incompatibility, this isn't even an Apple incompatibility, this is a specific issue between certain SSDs and the 2009 unibody MacBook Pros. Instead of admitting to that and committing the resources to fixing it, Apple is making the mistake of stating that non-Apple hardware isn't supported. These are storage devices, the only things that you absolutely didn't have to have an Apple logo on in order to guarantee operation.

Note that this wouldn't even be an issue in the first place if Apple offered halfway-decent SSD options on its systems.

If it were an Indilinx problem, why not work with Indilinx to fix it? There's a definite incompatibility but I'm willing to bet it is related to whatever kept Apple from enabling 3Gbps on these machines from the start. Some have speculated that the custom SATA cable Apple runs from the motherboard to the drive bay is to blame. It's the only explanation given that these problems only happened in the 2nd generation unibody MacBook Pro systems.

It's unacceptable and I'm guessing the next version of the MacBook Pro will magically fix all of the problems.

 

[alphaod]

Typical of Apple.

 

[iLog.Genius]

Nothing new and it's been like this for a long time. We would all expect or like to think that something as simple as a HDD should work in any system but it isn't always the case. Does the situation suck? Sure but it's a waste to talk to Apple about it. It has always been if it's not provided by Apple, it's not supported by Apple. Same goes with RAM. If it doesn't work, you would expect a similar response.

 

[GoCubsGo]

It's becoming incredibly typical that Apple will prevent customers from doing one thing, if discovered they magically fix the issues in many cases. IE: The late 2008 Unibody MacBook and the screen that wasn't worth a damn. They magically upgraded this though geniasses across the board were saying the negative black issue were "within spec".

While MS gets **** on constantly for their anti-consumer ways, you rarely hear of a company trying to secretly control what hardware customers use. An OCZ drive should be supported as much as an Intel X25-M.

 

[toxicdrift]

man i was gonna get one of the patriot drives coz of the 10 yr warranty. but now this article comes up with problems with the rest of the drives.. im really wondering if the upgrade is worth it on my 13mbp.

 

[Mazda 3s]

man i was gonna get one of the patriot drives coz of the 10 yr warranty. but now this article comes up with problems with the rest of the drives.. im really wondering if the upgrade is worth it on my 13mbp.

Good news! The 1819 firmware released yesterday fixes the problems with the new MacBook Pros. My 13" MacBook Pro, which was unusable with with the previous firmwares, now is rock solid in 10.6.2.

There are other confirmed reports of success with 1819 Patriot firmware on the Apple Discussion boards and the Patriot forums.

 

[toxicdrift]

mazda bro! u made my day! .. thanx a ton! will check out their forums. im really lookin to upgrade to a ssd and ram.. looks like im sorted for christmas

 

[Mazda 3s]

mazda bro! u made my day! .. thanx a ton! will check out their forums. im really lookin to upgrade to a ssd and ram.. looks like im sorted for christmas

Here's I'll save you the trouble This guy was having the exact same problem as me (same exact configuration included the 128GB Torqx)

http://www.patriotmemory.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7821&postcount=23

I've been running the 1819 firmware since a little before midnight and have done all sorts of heavy file transfers, Windows 7 session restores in VirtualBox and Time Machine backups and it has been rock solid. I couldn't go a few minutes without the machine hardlocking itself with the previous firmware.

 

[neteng101]

Good news! The 1819 firmware released yesterday fixes the problems with the new MacBook Pros. My 13" MacBook Pro, which was unusable with with the previous firmwares, now is rock solid in 10.6.2.

I don't know much about SSDs but it sounds like a combination of factors are leading to the SSD issues... if the problem can go away with an SSD firmware upgrade, then its hardly possible to pin the blame totally on Apple.

Given the price and even within various SSDs there are issues depending on the controller, I can wait... but thanks for the article link, interesting info in there. Looks like the CPU matters too, enough so that those who think a 2.26 13" vs. 2.53 13" doesn't differ much might want to reconsider depending on their usage.

 

[Mazda 3s]

I don't know much about SSDs but it sounds like a combination of factors are leading to the SSD issues... if the problem can go away with an SSD firmware upgrade, then its hardly possible to pin the blame totally on Apple.

Given the price and even within various SSDs there are issues depending on the controller, I can wait... but thanks for the article link, interesting info in there. Looks like the CPU matters too, enough so that those who think a 2.26 13" vs. 2.53 13" doesn't differ much might want to reconsider depending on their usage.

I think that Patriot/Indilinx just worked around the Apple SATA II issues with a firmware update. There's still an underlying SATA II issue, however, because people with third-party 5400RPM and 7200 RPM HDDs are having problems as well -- and we all know that SATA HDDs have been well sorted for quite some time now.

 

[toxicdrift]

yea i think patriot must have itself done the workround.. but it sure would be nice to know that u can drop in any ssd, and it would "just" work.. hope apple works on a fix with their controller.. especially since there is just two things people do to upgrade their mac. even though it seems far off... nothing wrong with wishful thinking lol


ps / thanx mazda for the link.

 

[neteng101]

I think that Patriot/Indilinx just worked around the Apple SATA II issues with a firmware update. There's still an underlying SATA II issue, however, because people with third-party 5400RPM and 7200 RPM HDDs are having problems as well -- and we all know that SATA HDDs have been well sorted for quite some time now.

Good point - it made no sense that they didn't enable SATA 3.0, unless they knew there were underlying SATA issues and were trying to prevent it from happening by limiting the SATA operation. And the SSD firmware might just put in better error handling/recovery thus allowing it to recover gracefully from error conditions.

If this is really a physical/signaling issue (ie. its not an Nvidia chipset issue) then all the firmware fixes are fixing recovery from errors, vs. preventing the signaling errors on the wire. Of course Apple could fix it at some point in manufacturing and it will just start magically working.

Am I assuming right that the late '08/early '09s don't have issues with most SSDs including the Patriot drive mentioned here?

 

[Mazda 3s]

Am I assuming right that the late '08/early '09s don't have issues with most SSDs including the Patriot drive mentioned here?

Yeah, it's only the mid-09 refreshed Pros that are having the problems.

 

[Niiro13]

No one knows if "Apple doesn't care" because they never said they didn't. AnandTech states that Apple simply said that the drives were not supported. That is the truth. Technically the only supported drives are the ones that come with the computer. That doesn't mean they aren't adding support, it just means that they aren't disclosing whether they want to fix it or not.

 

[Mazda 3s]

No one knows if "Apple doesn't care" because they never said they didn't. AnandTech states that Apple simply said that the drives were not supported. That is the truth. Technically the only supported drives are the ones that come with the computer. That doesn't mean they aren't adding support, it just means that they aren't disclosing whether they want to fix it or not.

In other words, they don't care. If this had been any other company that went four months without responding to an issue regarding general purpose hardware that SHOULD work using an industry standard interface, they would have been slaughtered.

It also doesn't help Apple's case that third party drives work perfectly on older MacBooks using the same chipsets AND they work fine in other PC notebooks. I could almost understand there being a few issues with SSDs, but there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for there to be problems with 2.5" third-party HDDs in these MacBooks.

Apple screwed up and doesn't want to admit it.

 

[neteng101]

Apple screwed up and doesn't want to admit it.

In a way I'm glad I got a late '08 at a steal of a price when the mid '09s first came out... although that in itself is screwed up with the 6GB RAM ceiling (when the chipset should support 8GB). I suppose they assume and probably correctly so - that most people aren't going to upgrade to SSDs or go to 8GB and so they try to get away with stuff like these by closing an eye since the population of buyers that might be unhappy isn't significant enough to warrant new engineering.

 

[gotzero]

It is too bad that so many people are having issues.

I have been blown away by the awesome performance of Corsair P128s in my MBP and now desktop.

It seems like the SSD tech is still pretty hit or miss. The pricing is going up and down, performance claims keep changing, and so on. I think it will take a year or so before everyone really knows what is going on and why...

 

[harperjones99]

Apple screwed up and doesn't want to admit it.

When profit, stock etc is involved NOBODY admits fault unless their lawyers tell them it is going to cost more if they don't. Anyone who has ever been "taken care of" by Apple has been so because the person who dealt with their case was cool not because Apple is cool. Profit is the bottom line not doing the right thing. I know call me Captain Obvious