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LOL you are comparing apple to AOL?? When every other company was innovating and coming up with ideas, AOL was still relying on their ONE product and that was their only focus. My parents still use AOL...they still have it in their brain that it's the only access to the internet. I've tried to get them to switch email, but they won't. From what i've seen, AOL hasn't changed in many years. Heck, you can't even auto forward their email to another email address.

You are comparing a 1 product company to Apple that has dozens of innovative products??

You know, comparing a "1 product company" to Apple I think is valid, because that one product ran on several platforms. By that standard, Apple is a 1 product company, that produces several devices that all do the same thing: Connect to the internet and make phone calls (even my ipod makes phone calls).

Right. So you chose product diversity (because Apple makes so many televisions, stereos and cars) because AOL didn't make several versions of the software for multiple computers and operating systems, instead of the fact AOL lied about their books for years and was a massive fraud, the massive hole in the metaphor.

Apple really makes two different products-computers in many shapes and sizes-and phones. The phones are pretty much computers, but they sell at another market, whereas the iPad fits more (as does an iPod) with a computer market. Now you can look at diversity on this level, too.

To say "Apple can not be the next AOL because AOL had only one thing are you serious" or whatever nonsense you tried to argue is...almost a complete misunderstanding of both Apple and AOL.

If you want product diversity, let's go with a real innovator: Sony (a company that, like Apple, I love and hate), or Samsung, etc.; what did Apple innovate recently? The laptop was already invented. Did they invent a new LCD monitor? No? Hmm...a new keyboard? No? They did invent a new trackpad, but is it necessary? I love that trackpad and its a reason I look at Mac laptops more than their competitors. So fine, that's innovative-but I could live without it. Did they invent the PDA? Well, they killed the Newton. MP3 Player? No, that's Creative.

Apple's main innovations are: Taking preexisting devices and making them more convenient to use. That's why I use Apple products. I find it a myth that they're better for audio and video-same parts, really. I don't think that's me saying Apple products are for the stupid either. I consider myself a very smart person, and I love the ease of how I don't have to think to use an Apple product. Its because they're so easy to use I recommend them to people who aren't so smart. I also recommend them to people who are smart, assuming they don't care that much about playing games. Apple didn't invent the PC, they just simplified it so you didn't have to be a genius to use it with the Apple II. Apple didn't invent the GUI, they just made it useful on a consumer level. Apple didn't invent the smartphone, they just made it easier to use and more accessible. Apple didn't invent the tablet computer either.

And Apple does these things really really well. Microsoft doesn't simplify things for you too often.

And that's also why people really hate what iTunes has become lately.
 
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You know, comparing a "1 product company" to Apple I think is valid, because that one product ran on several platforms. By that standard, Apple is a 1 product company, that produces several devices that all do the same thing: Connect to the internet and make phone calls (even my ipod makes phone calls).

I think you added a bit too much water when you tried to dilute what products / divisions Apple has. In many peoples eyes they are the following;

* Computer Hardware Manufacturer
* Computer Software creation
* Home Entertainment (Granted it is limited to AppleTV)
* Mobile Phones
* Personal Entertainment
* Music / Video / Movie sales & Rental
* Retail distribution
etc..

As you can see, Apple has many products / services that are all have had various levels of sucsess / failure. Quite a bit more than the few offerings AOL has had over the past couple Decades.

Right. So you chose product diversity (because Apple makes so many televisions, stereos and cars) because AOL didn't make several versions of the software for multiple computers and operating systems, instead of the fact AOL lied about their books for years and was a massive fraud, the massive hole in the metaphor.

Not sure what you are getting at here. You just appear to be venting at the person you quoted.

Apple really makes two different products-computers in many shapes and sizes-and phones. The phones are pretty much computers, but they sell at another market, whereas the iPad fits more (as does an iPod) with a computer market. Now you can look at diversity on this level, too.

Since when do people do serious computing on an iPod? An iPod is an entertainment device, nothing more. The iPod touch is more of a grey area, but considered by many (including Apple Marketing) as an entertainment device, as well as it is a pocket computer.

Yes they use the word computer, but would someone looking into a MacBook seriously consider an iPod touch as a possible optional alternative?

To say "Apple can not be the next AOL because AOL had only one thing are you serious" or whatever nonsense you tried to argue is...almost a complete misunderstanding of both Apple and AOL.

No idea what comparison you are attempting here, or in your first post. I fail to see how Apple and AOL are similar besides the A in their names.

If you want product diversity, let's go with a real innovator: Sony (a company that, like Apple, I love and hate), or Samsung, etc.; what did Apple innovate recently? The laptop was already invented. Did they invent a new LCD monitor? No? Hmm...a new keyboard? No? They did invent a new trackpad, but is it necessary? I love that trackpad and its a reason I look at Mac laptops more than their competitors. So fine, that's innovative-but I could live without it. Did they invent the PDA? Well, they killed the Newton. MP3 Player? No, that's Creative.

You should read up on your Laptop history before you start picking on Apple. The Form factor that all Laptop computers use now was pioneered by the first Apple Powerbook. Since that time, There have been over 10 (this isn't like Job's "100 Amazing new features" plug either) Apple innovations to Laptop computers that many other manufacturers now all use. While reading, you may also want to read up on Creative, as you will find that they were not the first creator of a portable MP3 player.

Apple's main innovations are: Taking preexisting devices and making them more convenient to use. That's why I use Apple products. I find it a myth that they're better for audio and video-same parts, really. I don't think that's me saying Apple products are for the stupid either. I consider myself a very smart person, and I love the ease of how I don't have to think to use an Apple product. Its because they're so easy to use I recommend them to people who aren't so smart. I also recommend them to people who are smart, assuming they don't care that much about playing games. Apple didn't invent the PC, they just simplified it so you didn't have to be a genius to use it with the Apple II. Apple didn't invent the GUI, they just made it useful on a consumer level. Apple didn't invent the smartphone, they just made it easier to use and more accessible. Apple didn't invent the tablet computer either.

Many great points here, however you need to remember how many Apple innovations (read inventions) are imbedded in all of these categories. Without them, I think user experience on both home, portable, and pocket computing devices would be totally different.

And Apple does these things really really well. Microsoft doesn't simplify things for you too often.

And that's also why people really hate what iTunes has become lately.

My intention is not to pick on you, but I just had the urge to reply to your epic post. I appreciate your passion and opinion on the subject, but wanted to touch on a few of the points you were posting up.

That being said, I see, and agree with your overall viewpoint of both loving & hating Apple! :eek:
 
This is starting to look realy bad

This is another comment on how many of the Apple seem to have a superiority complex with their product. I just got out of my US history class and they came to my head. When my professor was discussing how in the south there was a lot of white superiority and he talked about how many of the whites had no real justification other then "it just is" it really did remind me of how some of the people here have the believe that the iPhone is better then android... Because it just is. Many of them throw that "android phones are cheap." Well there are dozens of android phones built to a higher standard then the iPhone and even retail for more. Fact is I will be taking the time to do some research to see if the two topics are in fact related. Why is it that they are so similar in many ways a white supremacist and an iPhone supremacist.
 
You know, comparing a "1 product company" to Apple I think is valid, because that one product ran on several platforms. By that standard, Apple is a 1 product company, that produces several devices that all do the same thing: Connect to the internet and make phone calls (even my ipod makes phone calls).
They aren't a 1 product company. They make multiple products. Go to their website. If the appletv tanked and they couldn't make it anymore, did the company fail??? No, that ONE product did. Hence AOL and their 1 product.

Right. So you chose product diversity (because Apple makes so many televisions, stereos and cars) because AOL didn't make several versions of the software for multiple computers and operating systems, instead of the fact AOL lied about their books for years and was a massive fraud, the massive hole in the metaphor.
They make iPod shuffle, iPod Nano, iPod Classic, iPhone 4, AppleTV, and a variety of desktops and laptops. Not sure how you don't understand that they aren't a 1 product company? Bc AOL product runs on Mac OSX vs. Windows 7 that's now 2 separate products?? The intent is the exact same thing. Does an iPod shuffle do the same as a MBP?? No, they are "different" products.

Apple really makes two different products-computers in many shapes and sizes-and phones. The phones are pretty much computers, but they sell at another market, whereas the iPad fits more (as does an iPod) with a computer market. Now you can look at diversity on this level, too.
You are forgetting they are also a software company. Oh, they also have their own email service and you can also purchase/rent movies and buy music. Still the while AOL still does the same 1 service.

To say "Apple can not be the next AOL because AOL had only one thing are you serious" or whatever nonsense you tried to argue is...almost a complete misunderstanding of both Apple and AOL.
How? If people decide that they don't need dial up internet bc high speed works better, AOL is dead as a company. If someone decides they don't need an iPod bc they have an iPhone 4, does apple shut their doors? Or what if, someone decides they don't need an iPad bc they have a MBP....again these are all separate products.

If you want product diversity, let's go with a real innovator: Sony (a company that, like Apple, I love and hate), or Samsung, etc.; what did Apple innovate recently? The laptop was already invented. Did they invent a new LCD monitor? No? Hmm...a new keyboard? No? They did invent a new trackpad, but is it necessary? I love that trackpad and its a reason I look at Mac laptops more than their competitors. So fine, that's innovative-but I could live without it. Did they invent the PDA? Well, they killed the Newton. MP3 Player? No, that's Creative.
Do you see people camping out for the latest tablet from Sony or the latest MP3 player from Creative? There is a reason why people are lining up and things like the iPad are sold out and delayed in showing up in stores.

Apple's main innovations are: Taking preexisting devices and making them more convenient to use. That's why I use Apple products. I find it a myth that they're better for audio and video-same parts, really. I don't think that's me saying Apple products are for the stupid either. I consider myself a very smart person, and I love the ease of how I don't have to think to use an Apple product. Its because they're so easy to use I recommend them to people who aren't so smart. I also recommend them to people who are smart, assuming they don't care that much about playing games. Apple didn't invent the PC, they just simplified it so you didn't have to be a genius to use it with the Apple II. Apple didn't invent the GUI, they just made it useful on a consumer level. Apple didn't invent the smartphone, they just made it easier to use and more accessible. Apple didn't invent the tablet computer either.
That's what innovating is all about. Not necessary being the "inventor" but making things better.

To compare a 1 product company like AOL with Apple is just ridiculous IMO.

This is another comment on how many of the Apple seem to have a superiority complex with their product. I just got out of my US history class and they came to my head. When my professor was discussing how in the south there was a lot of white superiority and he talked about how many of the whites had no real justification other then "it just is" it really did remind me of how some of the people here have the believe that the iPhone is better then android... Because it just is. Many of them throw that "android phones are cheap." Well there are dozens of android phones built to a higher standard then the iPhone and even retail for more. Fact is I will be taking the time to do some research to see if the two topics are in fact related. Why is it that they are so similar in many ways a white supremacist and an iPhone supremacist.
u are on an apple-based website not an android one...what do you expect?
 
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They aren't a 1 product company. They make multiple products. Go to their website. If the appletv tanked and they couldn't make it anymore, did the company fail??? No, that ONE product did. Hence AOL and their 1 product.

Have you ever used AOL? Back in the day, there was a big difference between the different features. Yes, it was content delivery, but AOL was big in offering different content, and unlike a lot from the bubble at the time, they actually received revenue for it. AIM is still used-just an example of an AOL service that still is useful. But beat that "only one product" thing more, that service had a lot of products. Problem is, many weren't useful/good.


They make iPod shuffle, iPod Nano, iPod Classic, iPhone 4, AppleTV, and a variety of desktops and laptops. Not sure how you don't understand that they aren't a 1 product company? Bc AOL product runs on Mac OSX vs. Windows 7 that's now 2 separate products?? The intent is the exact same thing. Does an iPod shuffle do the same as a MBP?? No, they are "different" products.

This is a good point. iPod shuffle is completely different. Both play music. A MBP is a full fledged computer. An iPod shuffle is a device that has one capability of an MBP. Its a much cheaper product for a much cheaper segment. But its not quite, say, a car, or something completely unrelated to another already existing apple product. Its less functional. Its ludicrous I'll admit to say they're the same type of product, but to say AOL provided only one service...clearly you're someone who doesn't remember AOL when they were younger.

You are forgetting they are also a software company. Oh, they also have their own email service and you can also purchase/rent movies and buy music. Still the while AOL still does the same 1 service.

I'm saying they're a software company first and foremost, the only thing is people don't seem to understand this. They were a hardware company before the Intel transition, but let's be honest: How many components does Apple actually make anymore? The case, and that's about it?

AOL had their own email service, and they also carried ways to stream music too. So yeah, one service. That's again, ignoring what AOL is/was.


How? If people decide that they don't need dial up internet bc high speed works better, AOL is dead as a company. If someone decides they don't need an iPod bc they have an iPhone 4, does apple shut their doors? Or what if, someone decides they don't need an iPad bc they have a MBP....again these are all separate products.

You're again making a false assumption that AOL was nothing more than a dial-in line. It made a lot of money because people needed dial in lines, but they could charge a higher premium because people needed content as well, especially when the internet was young, and AOL provided that. It wasn't that AOL only was an ISP, but other people provided free instant messaging, as well as getting around their ads on their mail/IM service, other people had free, competing content, basically, everything AOL offered, you could get for free except for the access to the internet, which you could get faster (Cable, DSL) or cheaper (NetZero).


Do you see people camping out for the latest tablet from Sony or the latest MP3 player from Creative? There is a reason why people are lining up and things like the iPad are sold out and delayed in showing up in stores.

That's what innovating is all about. Not necessary being the "inventor" but making things better.

To compare a 1 product company like AOL with Apple is just ridiculous IMO.

You know...you're cheapening AOL's contribution to the internet in many ways, but the reality is they were a horrible company. Creative still makes great products. When the Playstation 3 came out, despite being somewhat of a flop, people were GETTING SHOT for it. Do you not read the news? I don't recall hearing about people dying over an Apple product, EVER. Not to say it doesn't happen, I'm sure someone's been mugged for something at some point. But if you honestly believe people were sane over Playstation releases, you're not just an Apple Fanboy, but completely blind to everything that isn't Apple.

You're not the typical Apple consumer anymore. My dad is, your dad might be, your mom might be. But YOU aren't. I'm far closer to your average customer than YOU because I buy the products I like, and maybe I'm a fan and willing to buy something I don't need yet at a price I can do better than, but I'm not unaware of the competition.

And Sony's released tablets? Maybe they have but I'm not aware of it. So of course no one's camped out for a PRODUCT THAT DOESN'T EXIST. People didn't camp out for Playstation 1 either to my knowledge, but they certainly did for Playstation 2.

Sony's tablet: Not due for a while: http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/business/news/20110427p2g00m0bu036000c.html

Do you remember when Nintendo was unbeatable in the late 80s? And when Sony was during the Playstation 2? That's where Apple is right now. That's not where Apple will be in 10 years unless they're VERY LUCKY. No company gets there unless they're very lucky. Even Microsoft hasn't had the luck recently that they had in the 90s.

Since when do people do serious computing on an iPod? An iPod is an entertainment device, nothing more. The iPod touch is more of a grey area, but considered by many (including Apple Marketing) as an entertainment device, as well as it is a pocket computer.

Yes they use the word computer, but would someone looking into a MacBook seriously consider an iPod touch as a possible optional alternative?

I actually did a lot of work on my ipod before I had my macbook air. If you try it, you'd find it very useful! I'm referring to the ipod touch, of course. The iPod is an MP3 player, which I consider nothing more than a natural progression of a Walkman anyway...

No idea what comparison you are attempting here, or in your first post. I fail to see how Apple and AOL are similar besides the A in their names.

Right now its arguing for the sake of arguing. The initial point was that AOL looked unbeatable 15 years ago, and crumbled. If that could happen to AOL, it could to anybody in theory. But AOL also had a bad accounting scandal.


You should read up on your Laptop history before you start picking on Apple. The Form factor that all Laptop computers use now was pioneered by the first Apple Powerbook. Since that time, There have been over 10 (this isn't like Job's "100 Amazing new features" plug either) Apple innovations to Laptop computers that many other manufacturers now all use. While reading, you may also want to read up on Creative, as you will find that they were not the first creator of a portable MP3 player.

I remember some computing from the 80s, and you're right, they didn't look like the modern laptop. So I'll give Apple props on the case design as I wasn't thinking, but they also did exist. By this argument, I think there's a case to call the Apple IIc the first real laptopish computer. I mean if you could hook it up to a monochrome flat panel-which existed then-it would be almost as portable as your current laptop.
 
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You know...you're cheapening AOL's contribution to the internet in many ways, but the reality is they were a horrible company. Creative still makes great products. When the Playstation 3 came out, despite being somewhat of a flop, people were GETTING SHOT for it. Do you not read the news? I don't recall hearing about people dying over an Apple product, EVER. Not to say it doesn't happen, I'm sure someone's been mugged for something at some point. But if you honestly believe people were sane over Playstation releases, you're not just an Apple Fanboy, but completely blind to everything that isn't Apple.

if they are a horrible company why are we even debating this again??
 
In 1997 when asked what he would do to fix the then-ailing Apple Computer, Michael Dell famously told a crowd of IT execs: "What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders."

Now in 2011 look at Apple:
If cash is King, Apple is an Emperor

:apple: Current cash is worth more than Nokia, RIM and Motorola Mobility’s market caps, put together.
:apple: Apple’s cash is worth half of Google’s enterprise value.
:apple: If Apple had no revenues, the current cash would sustain operations (SG&A and R&D) for over 7 years or until the middle of 2018.
 
I actually did a lot of work on my ipod before I had my macbook air. If you try it, you'd find it very useful! I'm referring to the ipod touch, of course. The iPod is an MP3 player, which I consider nothing more than a natural progression of a Walkman anyway...

I agree the iPod made a great PDA, I used mine for contacts, calendars, shopping lists, etc (still use my old 15gb like this at times today). That being said, it is a bit of a stretch to call it a computer.

Though, admiditly, the term computer is quite blurry these days as it stands, so we are just getting into tech semantics which is a hopeless battle! :eek:


Right now its arguing for the sake of arguing. The initial point was that AOL looked unbeatable 15 years ago, and crumbled. If that could happen to AOL, it could to anybody in theory. But AOL also had a bad accounting scandal.

Thanks for the clarification. I do agree, the mighty can and often do fall hard.

I hope nothing catastrophic happens to Apple, but agree with earlier points that they do need to listen to consumers more.



I remember some computing from the 80s, and you're right, they didn't look like the modern laptop. So I'll give Apple props on the case design as I wasn't thinking, but they also did exist. By this argument, I think there's a case to call the Apple IIc the first real laptopish computer. I mean if you could hook it up to a monochrome flat panel-which existed then-it would be almost as portable as your current laptop.

Funny thing is, I always considered the first Macintosh a good portable computer too. I mean it came with a bag that included a shoulder strap. I have thought about bringing my SE to a local Caribou Coffee on a Sunday morning and have a friend video the reactions of the passer's by. ;)
 
Funny thing is, I always considered the first Macintosh a good portable computer too. I mean it came with a bag that included a shoulder strap. I have thought about bringing my SE to a local Caribou Coffee on a Sunday morning and have a friend video the reactions of the passer's by. ;)

In a similar vein:
http://improveverywhere.com/2008/02/25/mobile-desktop/
(and yes, that's Aubrey Plaza from Scott Pilgrim / Parks & Recreation)
 
something Android users should watch for ...

Yes, although it really has nothing to do with Android itself.

It's about certain versions of Google apps which don't encrypt their login tokens, and whose users are on insecure WiFi networks with someone evil nearby sniffing packets.

Google is fixing the bug both in newer app releases, and remotely for everyone in the few days via their servers, who will send down a new encrypted token.

Personally, I think that anyone who publicly reveals such bugs before alerting the maker, be that Google or Apple or Microsoft or whomever, is a jerk. They're just grandstanding for the press. There should be a law against doing it unless they've given the company time to respond.

(Remember the very first iPhone OS update? It came out only because a bug was going to be revealed to the public that day.)
 
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