Anonymized Siri Voice Clips Stored by Apple for Up to Two Years

[swy05]

Are you kidding? Have you been on any other tech site? Because if you had, you'd know that it's completely the opposite. "Oh Google did it? Well it was probably for a good reason" But if Apple does it, it's always "Apple is evil!!!1!"

I'm not talking about the internet there chief. I'm talking about this website. Macrumors.

The site where logic is defied.

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That's funny because it's exactly the opposite that happens in reality.

When Google use Safari security holes to spy at users that want anonymity, that's fine. Because you know, Google is not evil right.

When Apple store anonymised data that can't be used to identify you, they get slammed...

All examples are like this, just like the "map tracking" which was even worst on Android than iOS thanks to carrier provider, and Apple was shot in every newspaper while no word on Android ****.

Read my post above.

 

[thefourthpope]

You mean like email? Every email you send is up there in the cloud forever. If you don't save it someone else might.

Missed the joke, must not have been good

 

[coolspot18]

My only question is why especially since its anonymized - what benefit is there to Apple?

It acts as a sample database which can be fed through for testing and tuning purposes.

 

[Tech198]

Interesting..

Isn't 18 months a long time?

 

[Nightarchaon]

Time to leave freaky message on siri in case anyone listens to them down the line...

 

[swagi]

Firstly, I do agree with your post, but just wanted to query the bit I quoted above.

Taking on board the fact that Goole is able to link together pieces of information about you, creating a 'digital fingerprint', there are three vital points:

1) It's still secure - it isn't given, sold etc to anyone.
2) It'd be against Google's business interests to allow anyone to get hold of said information.
3) Google employees dont have free access to data - on the contrary, nobody at Google gets access to the 'profile' of a person - EVER.
4) Its optional. You can opt out of having Google store things such as search history, just as you can disable Siri to remove your data.

People seem to think that ALL of Google's services have an ulterior motive to 'steal' your information, when we know that a vast majority of them exist purely for convenience and to better their offerings. They are painted as some evil empire by most people on MacRumors and its pretty crazy that a collective group can reach some really stupid and wild conclusions.

Actually you are neglecting the fact that Google's main interest is to get anonymous profiles. Yes, the want to 'steal' the information about you. As does any Cookie on any webpage. And no - it is not for your convenience.

Your convenience is just the side effect to them having rather accurate profiles of interest groups. These profiles of interest groups are used to cater specific AdWords-Ads to your browsing experience.

They do it mainly to enhance the effectiveness of their marketing campaigns so they can boast record "Click-per-view" data. Just look at those ads on this very page.

They don't care about you as an individual - as a person. They care about you as being part of a specific target group with specific interests analysed from your behavior and the data you left.

That is why they repeat that "don't be evil" mantra, because as a matter off fact your gender, location and the like is just one tiny statistic in their target group profile.

Have you ever read about the profiling done by people analysing Facebook-likes? Those are interesting reads.

And now go figure what people may be able to do with this voice data. They clearly will not only use it for better speech recognition. They will also use it to analyse user behavior, target specific areas of main interest (e.g. if people use Siri mainly for Sports-related stuff, why not recommend Sports stuff on iTunes; if Siri is used for navigational purposes, why not recommend Navigation-Apps in iTunes).

Everybody wants your data - but they want you as an anonymous target for consuming things. E.g. they clearly don't give a damn about your sexual orientation (other than the clothing brands you may prefer due to statistical data extruded from those anonymous profiles). They don't need to track down your location profile other than recommend a Diner to you (or a Starbucks if you rather fit into the Coffeeshop target group).

So as a whole - you don't give up your privacy any more than you do with consuming anything. You are still private. You are classified - but remain anonymous. Sounds strange, but this is the mechanism you need to understand before arguing about privacy.

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

So what?

Is there any value, privacy-wise, to "honey, I will be late"?

The difference between you and IBM is, that they understand the contents of this article and what Siri does (and how networks work). AFAIK, IBM developed ViaVoice and Apple developed voice fingerprinting algorithms.

 

[Pheo]

Clearly the ACLU hasn't got any android devices with GoogleNow installed; I'd worry about that first as that data is associated to you and analysed

Big data is the next big thing; For Apple to keep up it will need to data warehouse this stuff in order to provide personalised services. They just need to Mae their privacy policy a little clearer.

Not that Joe Bloggs cares.

 

[bradgfromboo]

That's because with google, it wouldn't be anonymous, and it'd be sold to advertisers with all your online history, and presented to the gov for their legal scrutiny with a friggin bow on it.

First of all, google wouldn't anonamize it. Secondly, they'd be selling that information to anyone willing to pay, for profit.

LOL!!!! Honestly guys? Thats what you come back with????

Your tin foil hat may need some adjustment...

 

[e-coli]

Like it matters. The maps fiasco not only made Maps a frustrating joke, it also made Siri a useless gimmick.

Nice work.

 

[rGiskard]

Great, so now they have a few petabytes of "Siri, do you think I'm fat?".

 

[thefourthpope]

"It's not clear what 'disassociated' means. It's not clear what 'period of time' means. It's not clear what using it to 'generally improve Siri and other Apple products and services' means," says Nicole Ozer, a lawyer with the ACLU.

It's not clear to me how this might interact with CISPA, passed in the House two days ago.

 

[GoodWatch]

Okay, now really... people are scared of the invasion of privacy of Siri. LOOK AT GOOGLE!

Why? Are Google the new Microsoft now? This article is about Apple, not Google......

 

[Glideslope]

Utter Foolishness.

 

[DesertEagle]

Time to leave freaky message on siri in case anyone listens to them down the line...

"If you can hear this, it means I have to come by at your house next week. I'll wash it with gasoline, free of charge!"

 

[HelveticaRoman]

Not that Apple would abuse it, save for commercial purposes, but I have a terrible feeling that a few generations from now they will look back at us and ask, "why on earth were they so trusting?"

 

[Nightarchaon]

"If you can hear this, it means I have to come by at your house next week. I'll wash it with gasoline, free of charge!"

I was thinking more

"This is the voice of God, i shall now hand down to thee 10 new commandments"

 

[Squilly]

Why? Are Google the new Microsoft now? This article is about Apple, not Google......

It's comparing Apple to Google.

 

[DesertEagle]

I was thinking more

"This is the voice of God, i shall now hand down to thee 10 new commandments"

That would put the listener in an interesting dilemma. Especially if you provide graphic details about what will happen in the afterlife if the commandments are disobeyed.

 

[S.B.G]

It's comparing Apple to Google.

What's comparing Apple to Google? This news story doesn't talk about Goigle.

 

[cclloyd]

Siri note my social security number please. It's xxx-xx-xxxx. Again, that is xxx-xx-xxxx.

 

[kdarling]

Now that is a big misunderstanding. Yes, Google will not leave that information out of their hands. However, that doesn't help you.

Google doesn't give your data to advertisers, they use your data on behalf of the advertisers to send the "right" advertisements to you. For payment, of course. The effect is the same, except Google makes sure they can keep making money off your data.

Apple also uses our personal data for their iAds advertising network for the same reason -- selling anonymous targeted ad slots.

Especially due to iTunes, Apple knows millions of people's names, addresses, phone numbers, device ids, credit info, location, video and song preferences, and what apps we've looked at or downloaded. Their iAd page notes some of the possible targets:



With Google, at least we're provided with free major services in return for a few ads. Search, Maps, YouTube, mail, storage, etc. You can also go to your Google dashboard ( https://www.google.com/dashboard/ ) , and view / disable personalized info, if you wish.

 

[pirg]

Apple also uses our personal data for their iAds advertising network for the same reason -- selling anonymous targeted ad slots.

Especially due to iTunes, Apple knows millions of people's names, addresses, phone numbers, device ids, credit info, location, video and song preferences, and what apps we've looked at or downloaded. Their iAd page notes some of the possible targets:

View attachment 408910

With Google, at least we're provided with free major services in return for a few ads. Search, Maps, YouTube, mail, storage, etc. You can also go to your Google dashboard ( https://www.google.com/dashboard/ ) , and view / disable personalized info, if you wish.

While true, hardly a ringing endorsement. Both companies have all your data. It's the internet, an expectation of privacy is little naive

 

[marksman]

Well if the clips are truly disassociated, how would they know what files to delete?

Computer files have had time and date stamps forever.

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There will be two kinds of responses on this thread.

The first will be "big deal". Those are the people who love Apple's walled garden, who don't mind the restrictions and the DRM. They may feel that if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear. They probably use a lot of social media without much thought to privacy.

The second group will be those who avoid Siri and think outside of the walled garden. To them Apple's '1984' ad has now come true in the reverse. They either do not use social media or use it with caution. They may also avoid storing or transferring data on the cloud.

By page four the two sides will be arguing.

Disagree. By page 4 group 1 will know where group 2 lives and everything about them and group 2 will run away in horror

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So they will find my "no, Joy division, not One Direction, you stupid b....!"...

I am fairly certain I would throw Siri at a wall if it made that mistake

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Well that's stopped me from using Siri. I've used it to compose sensitive work emails whilst out jogging, just to test it and it worked great! But if they're keeping records then yeah, I'll just disable it thanks!

Your secrets at snoopy dog house groomer is safe with apple

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Nor do I.

But you'll notice all the posts minimalizing this because its Apple. If it was Google they'd be outraged.

Hypocrisy displayed by the faithful at its finest!

Yet Apple's free to turn on the mic or camera on my iDevice whenever they want. If anyone thinks otherwise they're only kidding themselves.

It's the risk we take by carrying what is essentially the best tracking device the Feds could ever ask for.

Paranoid? NOT at all.

Factual? ABSOLUTELY.

Welcome to technology circa 2013

Well google has ALWAYS Been in the business of selling users and their data.

Apple has ALWAYS been in the business of selling hardware and software to people.

Only a complete fool would not be more worried about google than apple in any situation when it comes to personal information:

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They don't care when the company that descended from the heavens known as Apple does it.

No it is more worrisome when a company, Google, makes all their money selling consumers and data about consumers.

It is funny that people can not comprehend the fundamental business model of the two companies, with apple I am the customer, with google Ian the product, makes the risks associated with both companies at diffetent ends of the spectrum.

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Ok, if it's a fact that Apple can't connect any of your clips with you/your phone and none of your individual clips with eachother, how come they can do this?:

From the Wired article:
“If you turn off Siri, Apple will delete your User Data, as well as your recent voice input data,” Apple’s privacy statement reads. “Older voice input data that has been disassociated from you may be retained for a period of time to generally improve Siri and other Apple products and services.”

If they don't know which clips you uploaded, how can they delete them if you disable Siri?

And about Google being open with keeping track of you and your clips, they also are very specific about how you shall act if you want to disable that function and make you completely anonymous. I don't think that's the case with Apple, options for the user is not their strong point.

It is like you read the article but did not read it all at the same time.

 

[Saladinos]

(emphasis mine)

I was with you until that last statement. You have no idea why Apple is doing this, in fact none of us knows. Your attribution of altruism to Apple is naive at best. You do yourself a disservice by mixing articulate ideas in the same post with what amounts to fanboy hopefulness. Apple could be operating exactly as you speculate, or they could, to varying degrees be doing something nefarious. We just don't know.

There is one thing I would like answered. I don't have an iPhone but my wife does and we share an iPad. From the Wired article:

"Once the voice recording is six months old, Apple “disassociates” your user number from the clip, deleting the number from the voice file. But it keeps these disassociated files for up to 18 more months for testing and product improvement purposes.

“Apple may keep anonymized Siri data for up to two years,” Muller says “If a user turns Siri off, both identifiers are deleted immediately along with any associated data.”

So if I turn off Siri in month 8, how does Apple know which data to delete?

That's not an accusation of malfeasance. I'm genuinely curious.

I'm not naive about why Apple is doing this - I think I was pretty balanced in what I said about it. Apple's business involves making a better and better product (i.e. a more accurate speech-to-text service) so that it can sell more units to you when you notice how much better it is. Google's business involves learning more and more about you so that it can sell highly-targeted ads for higher rates.

When it comes to privacy, my concern is exactly the latter. I don't care if the company is storing anonymised data I produced if it's being used to build a better product. I definitely start to care if the company might be using that to build some kind of profile of me.

Like I said, given their businesses, I'm less concerned about this coming from Apple than I would be from Google. Even though I'm not sure what Google does with my data (and I keep an open mind about it).


As for the identifiers, the identifier is a temporary number on your device. Every time you active Siri, you get a new identifier.

Those identifiers are used to group recordings on the server. After 6 months, those recordings stop being associated with your account and go in to a big pool of recordings which they use to test Siri against.