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Another Mac port gets cancelled due to Apple's poor graphics support

JordanNZ said:
Which missing features do you think impact performance? The features Brad was pissed about missing have nothing to do with performance, just how things translate with mapping between D3D.
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Not directly, but these missing attribute formats could make a conversions of sorts necessary – an extra step costing performance and/or requiring additional resources. And let's not forget that this is most likely just the tip of the iceberg of "all the missing features" he complains about.
 
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Exhale said:
I grabbed that off the Beta client at the time I posted that. The same restriction exists in the PTR client however - and thats getting released Tomorrow (July 19, 2016).

Thats not an issue with hardware support - its an issue with API capabilities. The setting can be enabled when the API is switched to OpenGL. (live & beta).


Because its not a bug. Graphics settings which cannot be enabled due to API or hardware limitations are greyed out; you get the same behaviour for SSAO Ultra on non-NVIDIA machines (live & beta).

The yellow exclamation mark is placed when a graphics quality setting (5+ in this case) attempts to raise a setting but cannot because the setting isn't supported.
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With what hardware? I've had alpha/beta since it launched last year and have not seen this on my 780M GTX, nor have I seen complaints of it on the Alpha/Beta/PTR forums.
 
Err, so, sunshafts aren't supported on your hardware in Legion. You're pinning this on Apple, but the fact that it works with OpenGL (and on other hardware with Metal) sounds more like Blizzard's renderer still has some kinks to work out.
 
wubsylol said:
Err, so, sunshafts aren't supported on your hardware in Legion. You're pinning this on Apple, but the fact that it works with OpenGL (and on other hardware with Metal) sounds more like Blizzard's renderer still has some kinks to work out.
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Are you even running Metal though? You said yourself you've been in for quite some time - which means your default will likely have been set to OGL, not Metal.

/script print(GetCVar("gxApi"))
 
Exhale said:
Are you even running Metal though? You said yourself you've been in for quite some time - which means your default will likely have been set to OGL, not Metal.

/script print(GetCVar("gxApi"))
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I am using Metal.

The the OGL 3.2 renderer in Legion is using a shader model 4 render path, whereas Metal is running a hybrid of SM4 and 5. The Iris is a SM4 card, so the way sunshafts are rendered is probably preventing you from selecting them.
 
Oh? Okay, weird, I'm not familiar with Intel IGPs.
[doublepost=1468845280][/doublepost] WoWScrnShot_071816_223154.jpg WoWScrnShot_071816_223157.jpg
 
Two possibilities:
1. NVIDIA middleware
2. Bad Intel driver

Both would be historically consistent.
 
Assuming Intel driver updates, be interesting to see if Blizzard can get sunshafts working on Sierra.

I doubt its nVidia middleware; I've seen it working just fine on AMD hardware as well.
 
Has anybody compared framerates between OpenGL 2.1 and Metal in WoW?

I'm mainly curious whether 6.2.4 OpenGL 2.1 -> 7.0.0 Metal will be a net performance loss or gain, I suppose we'll find out soon enough.
 
With AMD drivers getting updated on the Windows side, does Apple get similar updates? Just curious if performance of the AMD gpu in the current Pro 15" has improved.
 
friedkimchi said:
With AMD drivers getting updated on the Windows side, does Apple get similar updates? Just curious if performance of the AMD gpu in the current Pro 15" has improved.
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You mean, in Legion Beta? (since that's the focus the last page and half). If yes, then AMD works fine in Beta at setting 5, assuming you turn off shadows or least to low. It was atrocious a few weeks ago but they've done some things to help with performance the last week or two'ish.

Also, far as actual driver updates. Unless something was released with today's 10.11.6 update, then no. Nvidia has their web based driver update for Macs but AMD just sucks for support. (another reason why I loathe Apple using AMD exclusively)
[doublepost=1468891624][/doublepost]@Exhale, what is your computer since I didn't see that mentioned. This makes a HUGE difference whether your computer is even capable or not, whether it can only run OpenGL or barely support Metal, given how weak your card is.

This is my setting with 15" 2015 MBP in sig

2suPzfI.jpg


Sunshafted, SSAO etc enabled just fine. SSAO Ultra is reserved for Nvidia hence the triangle.
 
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Interestingly the most recent benchmarks of the RX480 vs GTX1060 in Vulcan show that the AMD chip is pulling well ahead in Vulcan, sometimes as much as 20% (in "Doom"), to the point where the factory OCed custom cards compete with the GTX1070.

If this is representative of all thin APIs (including Metal) then it's easy to see why Apple chose Polaris over Pascal for its Macs.

The only downside is that if rMBPs once again deliver "decent enough" graphics performance, Apple won't feel compelled to support external GPUs via TB3 which would be my preferred solution.
 
moep said:
Interestingly the most recent benchmarks of the RX480 vs GTX1060 in Vulcan show that the AMD chip is pulling well ahead in Vulcan, sometimes as much as 20% (in "Doom"), to the point where the factory OCed custom cards compete with the GTX1070.

If this is representative of all thin APIs (including Metal) then it's easy to see why Apple chose Polaris over Pascal for its Macs.

The only downside is that if rMBPs once again deliver "decent enough" graphics performance, Apple won't feel compelled to support external GPUs via TB3 which would be my preferred solution.
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Vulkan and DX12 only expose the hardware for your application. You can see how it affected performance of R9 390X in DX12 and Vulkan - it is on par with GTX 980 Ti, because both GPUs have overall similar power.
 
So El Capitan's time on Earth is almost over and have we seen even ONE game made for the Metal API yet? One conversion? Anything? It seems Apple changes operating systems more often than parents change diapers, but ask Apple to update a graphics driver or OpenGL or even fix some bugs in the OS and FORGET ABOUT IT. Apple is only interested in adding more iOS features and THAT'S IT. Apple has become a JOKE of a company since Steve died. They promoted Jony Ive again. For what? Breaking all the GUI conventions? You can't even tell if Spotlight is doing anything anymore until a result pops up because it has no busy indicator what-so-ever anymore, leaving you wondering if it's doing a damn thing when results are taking forever. That deserves a promotion?

Jony is a fracking moron, IMO. Some people just get golden eggs laid in their lap for no reason. The man RUINED OS X. He even had to change the name now. I look at the XBench numbers for the older Quartz graphics and GUI operations and they are literally 1/4 to 1/100th the performance of the older (i.e. Mavericks and Mountain Lion) earlier versions of the OS. Yes, the GUI uses Metal now, but NOTHING ELSE does! So why is it SLOWER? WTF did they add/change that could account for the older operations going to hell on the same computer? I won't even update iTunes anymore because every new version is full of bugs and breaks entire libraries in some cases. I used to run all Apple TVs around the house. I switched to Amazon FireTV with Kodi. I got sick of Apple SUCKING AT EVERYTHING anymore when they used to be good.

Frankly, I'd consider a PC at this point (sick of waiting for updated Mac hardware that isn't garbage an can actually use a faster GPU even if it's through Thunderbolt III), but the only thing holding me back is Windows 10 is NSA/CIA/FBI SPYWARE incarnate. The things Microsoft is doing to FORCE upgrades and watch every keystroke is unforgivable (even worse than crap graphics drivers) and they show zero signs of stopping. But now that Apple has broken their promise to protect privacy by handing over that Torrent link site guy in Poland, I'd say you can't trust a single word they say about protecting privacy no matter what. Whether you agree with what the guy was doing or not is beside the point. Apple did a 180 on their privacy claims overnight. Do you think people want to trust "The Cloud" with all their private personal data when Apple or Microsoft will just hand it over at a whim? You're far better off keeping your private stuff on your own private computers not even connected to the Internet unless you want someone taking it (i.e. whether you're working on an invention or a novel or a music album). Trust NO ONE. Everyone is out for themselves these days and most people would sell their child for the right price. Frack Microsoft. Frack Apple. Frack the CHUMP too. They're all liars and data thieves when it comes right down to it. People can't even write a speech without stealing it and then they claim the moral high ground. Ridiculous.
 
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It sounds like you have a lot of built up anger, so I'm glad this thread presented itself as an opportunity for you to rant about things unrelated to the topic at hand.

With that said, World of Warcraft now supports Metal and the results are looking promising.
 
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I found some official AMD info on what is presumably going to be the next rMBP's dGPU:

http://videocardz.com/61064/amd-polaris-10-and-polaris-11-specifications

it will be called Radeon RX 480M, will have 16 CUs and TDP of 35W and performance will perform similarly to a GTX 960M or Playstation 4.
We can expect ~4000 points in 3D Mark Fire Strike, a 65% increase over the current rMBP.

Maybe also worth mentioning is that the mobile GTX1060 will be very similar to the desktop version and leaked benchmarks suggest >10000 points at 65W TDP. Too hot for the mobiles but hopefully a candidate for iMacs.

(chart by http://alteredqualia.com/texts/notebooks/)
g2XbI0n.jpg

Fingers crossed for external GPU support via TB3...
 
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Fortnite uses the Metal API and has since January and WoW now uses Metal too. Also, UE4 engine releases from 4.11 onward default to Metal so it'd be wrong to suggest no Mac game developer has been using it. Switching a graphics API is no easy undertaking.
 
How's metal performing so far for those of you who are playing Legion?

I've heard mixed stories, people with dGPU do seem a noticeable increase in fps while Intel HD users have pretty much the same results.
 
Performance for me seems good. I wouldn't say it was a dramatic improvement, however I used to get awful stuttering and screen tearing in WoD and this is not present when using Metal in Legion.

I assume Metal handles vsync differently from OpenGL, because while the stutter is gone, the tearing still exists even with the new core renderer in Legion.
 
asoksevil said:
I've heard mixed stories, people with dGPU do seem a noticeable increase in fps while Intel HD users have pretty much the same results.
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Based on what I've found on the battle.net forum, it's about 30% faster on comparable settings for folks with dGPUs. However, as you mentioned Intel GPUs are GPU limited and not likely to gain much performance from the new API. OpenGL was not the limiting factor on that hardware.
 
asoksevil said:
How's metal performing so far for those of you who are playing Legion?

I've heard mixed stories, people with dGPU do seem a noticeable increase in fps while Intel HD users have pretty much the same results.
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Not that great, but a lot of zones aren't really optimized with their new engine vs. zones from the broken island.
 
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