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Yes, I know that, I was just trying to simplify things. ;)

Basically, both PSOE and PP are so tightly bound to the large banks (they are the ones financing them, after all) that they will never take any measure against them. For instance, one of the PSOE's last moves before they left the govt to the PP in November, was to amnesty a convicted banker. :rolleyes:

Really, I wonder how long is it going to be before the real riots start.
 
I like ID cards.

I think that you should not say these things when UK is the country that does not want to be in the EU, but it is for geographical reasons mostly, and it is always bargaining a way out for every single directive...
Besides, when Spain got into the EU, it received a lot of funds as it was not as developed as nowadays, but now that is different, and Spain is not raking anything... no more than other countries such as France, Germany or Sweden.
Be fair in your statements... specially when comparing with UK ;)


You seem to miss something... Spain, and every other country within the EU, has full sovereignty on how it identifies its citizens, and as a citizen myself I'm obliged by law to carry my DNI but... and this is something you might not know, if I don't carry it and the Police asks me to identify to them, I won't be fined nor put in jail, they just have the right to take me to the Police station and identify me there; that's all.
As a foreigner I'm not aware of the rules, if they change, but I don't see any discrimination anywhere. You are not forced to get the NIE unless you want or you have to (remember that if you move to any country within the EU for more than 3 months you have to register with the local authorities of that country, and that will likely grant you the famous NIE :)

I would love England to be part of Schengen treaty... but unfortunately this is one of those things I will never understand, and I do think it is very unfair to do so...
So no... don't put England as an example of anything because we both now it is not. The EU should be a big happy family and not just a union of countries complaining about each other's economy and this or that, it's tiring and that's why EU is the way it is, just a union for trading and no more (the rest is just a big bloat of crap)


Oh I like the idea of ID cards, but just give me one and I will take it with me wherever I go. I have a Spanish driving license, european type B, however it does not show my address, the field for my name has missed the last letter( strange, because with spaces that would equal to 19 characters, not a round number like 20).

Spanish people don't believe in the security of CHIP&PIN bank cards, or why would the shop ask for ID?

In England, we don't have ID cards, so as an option you can get a credit card size print of your passport - when you try and pay for something in a shop with a card you show them that and they refuse, and insist it is not a valid form of ID.

I had two tiers changed on the car last month, at the end they asked for photo ID, address, and NIE. WHY?!?! to prove that they sold them to me? - if that is the case, you must be very deceitful people. Anyway, no problem, all I have to show them is my passport (that contains my full name), and my "Residencia" (that contains my address). - But why should I have to carry with me so much paperwork when all this could be combined into one DNI? I think it would be practical for EU members to have a DNI, it has a place for your full name, date and place of birth, NIE number, address and a photo!:) But I doubt that they will, seeing as we bring all our money to Spain and invest in the Spanish economy. They can do it for immigrants outside the EU who bring absolutely nothing with them.

Just to be clear, NIE = Número de Identificación de Extranjero, it is just a number on an A4 sheet of paper not an ID card.

When Spain got into the EU it received and still is receiving billions of euros from the European Union for various things. Why don't they have a national health system? They have a regional one, OK fine, but why not have a database where all details of medical history are kept so if you are traveling to region to region they know who you are in an emergency? Why have at least three different police forces with god knows how many different databases? Just one police database will do and also be more efficient. It would be good if the Guardia Civil merged with the Policia Nacional, but divide its self up into departments.

I could keep going, but have not got the time right now.

Awaiting your feedback. ;)
 
If you have a valid driving license you should convert it to a Spanish version, this is a valid form of ID, if not the way around this is obtaining (un carnet de cylomotor) which is also accepted as a valid ID which is available without having to take a driving exam.

With regards to legal matters, you need to register with the National police department to which they will facilitate you with a Blue card that states you are in Spain legally, the card is not valid as ID but does allow you to obtain credit cards etc.

You ONLY have the right to unemployment benefit if you have payed taxes in Spain, 3 months of benefits for every year worked. with a maximum of 2 years. it is not like the British system that has no limit and does not take into account past working history.

If you need more help with regards to staying here in Spain legally and obtains the Blue card PM me and I will be happy to help you out.

with regards to EU and ID cards, Spain was STOPPED for giving out ID cards (NIE) due to it not being legal, hence the Blue card! (which is Paper) not a real card.


I have a Spanish driving license type B, obtained here in Spain ( passed first time :) ), the problem I have with it is that it does not show my address and the last letter of my name is missing(apparently the field only has 19 characters in it and not 20 like I need - strange not being a round number and all). Registered with the police, took my fingerprint as if I were a criminal, so why don't they use mobile scanners to identify people? For being at the police station all morning I got back an A4 size "residencia" and got charged 30€

In the UK people leave school, go to a job centre and receive all sorts of benefits. I think England should treat foreigners like the Spanish do, that way we would not have to pay out as much in Asylum and all them outgoings to people who did not pay a penny into the system. However you would think that being part of the EU means that the rules are fairly similar in all countries.

The EU says that we shouldn't be treated like outsiders, so I can see where the NIE ID card went, however I think that we should be entitled to a DNI that states where we are from, date of birth, full name, photo, NIE number, address, etc.

I dont mind carrying ID, but please make it possible for me to obtain it.
 
Im English, and live here in Spain. Perhaps you could tell me how I can get 1000€/month, as when I asked they told me that I was not entitled to anything. I thought that we were in Europe, but it seems that Spain only rakes from The EU and does not contribute anything nor does it treat the members fairly.

Example: Spain says that everyone should carry an ID card, Spanish people a DNI and foreigners Tarjeta de Identificacion Extranjera. The EU says that members of the EU should not be treated like outsiders, so dont carry a foreigners ID card. This leaves Britons in an unfortunate situation. They want us to carry ID but wont supply us with any. Why should we have to carry passports(for full name and photo), NIE certificates(to verify everything), Residencia(prove we live here) papers and a driving license? Thats discrimination as outsiders only have to carry a DNIE card?

However if Spanish people go to England, have an address = they get everything! Unfair treatment of the people who built the roads they drive on, and give then a whole boat load of money.

You seem like you are in the know, help me out here.

Thanks!

Good point.

I mean it.

Now, can you please leave my country?

Thanks.
 
Come and live in Britain! Its FREE!! (but only if you are not British)

Well, for starters, the UK, while a member of the EU, has refused to sign most of the agreements related to the EU. You have no Euro, no Schengen, and only a few treaties that make you ostensibly a member. Schengen is key here: Because the UK is not part of the Schengen area, Schengen nations have a right to treat UK citizens however they please. (And I say bollocks to your "but they get everything in my homeland!" argument. Stop sounding like Russell Howard's magical racist cat)

Im only telling it like it is. You as a foreigner can go to any british point of entry and say that you have no home and if you go back they will kill you. Next they give you free shelter. With that address you get given a free national insurance number. With that number you get free healthcare. With that free number you can apply for tens of thousands of pounds worth of grants and benefits. Anything and everything from free transport, free education, free meals, free recreational activities, free accommodation, and a whole lot more as well.

All the tax payers in the UK will pay for you, and it didn't cost you anything. So now you can either live conformably and send the rest of your free money back to your home land or invite your family over so they can get a free life as well. Meanwhile the British person who has paid national insurance all his life has to fight for what is his if he falls upon hard times.

----------

Good point.

I mean it.

Now, can you please leave my country?

Thanks.

I would love to leave, but you have taken all my money and my house won't sell so I can go back. Please buy all of my Spanish assets from me for a price I can get setup back on home ground. Didn't think that you would, so in effect you are stuck with me - the lest you could do is to make my life easier now you have trapped me here!
 
I would love to leave, but you have taken all my money and my house won't sell so I can go back. Please buy all of my Spanish assets from me for a price I can get setup back on home ground. Didn't think that you would, so in effect you are stuck with me - the lest you could do is to make my life easier now you have trapped me here!

Oh...

That should be your least concern, amigo.

Regardless of how much your "Spanish assets" sell for, as soon as you reach a U.K. checkpoint, just tell them you have nothing to offer to the system.

They will give you shelter and food. Benefits ranging from transportation to education and what not. Just like you said...

You can always comeback as a tourist thou. Always welcome.

Thanks.
 
you have trapped me here!

You must be one of those who came here speculating with housing and thought that "me haré rico porque la vivienda NUNCA baja".

You are part of the reason Spain is going down. You and all the rest of the richer part of Europe that speculated with Spanish housing. (Germany and UK are much to blame here).

In this mess, nobody is without blame.
 
Oh...

That should be your least concern, amigo.

Regardless of how much your "Spanish assets" sell for, as soon as you reach a U.K. checkpoint, just tell them you have nothing to offer to the system.

They will give you shelter and food. Benefits ranging from transportation to education and what not. Just like you said...

You can always comeback as a tourist thou. Always welcome.

Thanks.



Yes, Spain always wants to take your money, thats the easy part. You couldn't have been paying attention when I said that the UK only favors the outsiders. The fact that I still legally own my assets. Always thinking about yourself. How nothing is ever your fault and rely on everybody else. Wanting all of the glory. La vida facil. It is true what the students say: He aprobado. Me ha suspendido.
 
I like the way you did not comment on anything else I said.

You must be one of those who came here speculating with housing and thought that "me haré rico porque la vivienda NUNCA baja".

You are part of the reason Spain is going down. You and all the rest of the richer part of Europe that speculated with Spanish housing. (Germany and UK are much to blame here).

In this mess, nobody is without blame.

I must be one of those who came here with the promise of living the dream in the sun with a relaxed pace of life. We specifically asked the bank to keep out money in a savings account. Instead the charge us for using them, transferring money and we didn't get paid interest on hundreds of thousands of euros. You promised a quality house but when we point out the defects, we are told "oh no, thats rustic.". We build up your country and what do we get in return? How can you call us the richer part of Europe when your town halls are building new multi million (11000000€) 5 story office complexes for the mayor to sit in? The public enter and get told to use the side door. Do not blame others for your own mess.
 
the UK only favors the outsiders.

O.K.

So?

.....to do with Spain? E.U.?

Why don't you go and talk to your MP's who are more interested in what to wear in Vanuatu in their pensions rather than thinking about their homelands future?

Not really.

U.K. favors Yorkshire Puddings.

Its the general public that I feel worried about in the U.K. Your general public is more like "lol". I don't know why. I've been to many places in the U.K. and this is my opinion on your general public. Never mind outsiders.

Lets forget politics because within E.U. - U.K. is always the talking point when it comes to isolation and sense of humour.

Lets talk something else.

Any plans about your pensions?

For me, its a long way but hey at least I don't have to worry about the weather in my country.

Thanks.
 
I must be one of those who came here with the promise of living the dream in the sun with a relaxed pace of life. We specifically asked the bank to keep out money in a savings account. Instead the charge us for using them, transferring money and we didn't get paid interest on hundreds of thousands of euros. You promised a quality house but when we point out the defects, we are told "oh no, thats rustic.". We build up your country and what do we get in return? How can you call us the richer part of Europe when your town halls are building new multi million (11000000€) 5 story office complexes for the mayor to sit in? The public enter and get told to use the side door. Do not blame others for your own mess.

"Living the dream in the sun with a relaxed pace of life."

That's possible, yes. Nobody said that it wasn't possible, though IMO its cultural side is much better than doing nothing all day in the beach like a plant.

You promised a quality house but when we point out the defects, we are told "oh no, thats rustic."

You bought a house before seeing it in person? Are you serious?

How can you call us the richer part of Europe when your town halls are building new multi million (11000000€) 5 story office complexes for the mayor to sit in?

I wasn't specifically talking about countries, though Germany and the UK had a lot to do with it. I was talking about people that had the money and spent it in housing like if it were a sport. Spain is in Europe, AFAIK, and the richer part of Europe includes Spanish rich people too.

Do not blame others for your own mess.

You clearly didn't read what I wrote: In this mess, nobody is without blame.

Is my English not clear enough for you?
 
You really have some personal (almost mental issues) I can not be bothered to respond to you, because I FEEL WE have nothing in common and/or anything else to discuss, it is that simple.

Wasn't expecting any less, given your previous post.

Maybe the best bet here would be for you to discuss and find a solution to your anger with the world and bitterness with some kind of professional help, and not posting your personal slander campaign on MR when the subject in hand is the opening of a new Store in Spain..

It's ok if you talk about Spain's current situation, but it's not ok for the rest of us to talk about it? Double standards all the way.

My anger and bitterness are 100% legitimized by what's happening in family and friend's surroundings.
I seriously hope none of your close friends doesn't get beaten up by the police while doing peaceful protests (like several of my friends on protests for the Western Sahara's freedom), or you don't ever have any close friends that are kicked out from their jobs because some jerk 1% want to earn even more making the ones that weren't kicked out work double for the same salary thanks to the "new measures to create (destroy) more jobs", or hope that none of your friends or family commit suicide because of all this **** situation.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.​

Keep on thinking that you'll be "safe" from all the **** that's going on and keep on thinking that everything's alright. You'll most likely get an unpleasant surprise sooner or later.

As for being part of the problem!! sorry but I am one of the few that will be the solution to the problem, although you seem to hate everything and everyone.

You are one of the few that will be the solution? How so? Please explain. How are you going to solve political corruption in Spain? How are you going to solve the problem with Bankia? How are you going to restore I+D+i on the renewable power industry? How are you going to solve the problem of the privatization of the parts that actually work and the nationalization of the companies that go bankrupt? In what way do you actually think that saying that "in Spain things aren't that bad" is going to help?


Best of luck.

Same to you.
.
 
Because clearly, in a country where no new jobs are created (unemployment rates keep climbing), and where said benefits won't last for more than a few months, this is sound advice based on solid insider intel:

z4n3 said:
Unemployment benefit in Spain averages 1000 euros NET monthly so even unemployed people have the right to save there money and buy what they want.

:rolleyes:

That said, I'm convinced that it's still a good idea to open new Apple Stores. Those who were likely to buy Apple products before, are still the ones likely to buy them now. And if you're going to work for clients outside Spain, it's still a good (and welcome) idea to create a business here since, local manpower will still be available (and at lower cost, too!).
And I'll keep my stance that it will take 15 years to get our head out of the mess we're in. It's the time it took us to get where we are, and we're still digging deeper and deeper (I've friends working in banking and finance, and they are betting on our economy going considerably worse).
 
O.K.

So?

.....to do with Spain? E.U.?

Why don't you go and talk to your MP's who are more interested in what to wear in Vanuatu in their pensions rather than thinking about their homelands future?

Not really.

U.K. favors Yorkshire Puddings.

Its the general public that I feel worried about in the U.K. Your general public is more like "lol". I don't know why. I've been to many places in the U.K. and this is my opinion on your general public. Never mind outsiders.

Lets forget politics because within E.U. - U.K. is always the talking point when it comes to isolation and sense of humour.

Lets talk something else.

Any plans about your pensions?

For me, its a long way but hey at least I don't have to worry about the weather in my country.

Thanks.


Most people earn their pensions. I'm sorry you chose a job where the company didn't provide one. They used to, before encouraging people to invest in 401ks instead...

But putting money in 401ks, which are safer to invest in and rely on in the future, yes? I mean, Enron employees and everyone after 2007 have prospered as a result?
 
Oh I like the idea of ID cards, but just give me one and I will take it with me wherever I go. I have a Spanish driving license, european type B, however it does not show my address, the field for my name has missed the last letter( strange, because with spaces that would equal to 19 characters, not a round number like 20)
Here you go, stop complaining, and check if you fulfill the requirements

Spanish people don't believe in the security of CHIP&PIN bank cards, or why would the shop ask for ID?
Actually I think that by checking the ID you have more security ;) Anyhow, I agree that it might be annoying. I find myself annoyed since I live in Sweden, and everything I need is the card and my PIN number. But this is also a matter of national policy, and I think that regardless of the new legislation (which says that for debit cards the PIN number will be preferred over the signatura, while for credit cards, the only valid thing is the signature), the merchant still has the right to ask for the ID because if it there is a problem... that merchant will have to pay the loss. But again, little by little, I think that when you pay with debit cards, more merchants avoid asking for the ID (specially in big stores)

In England, we don't have ID cards, so as an option you can get a credit card size print of your passport - when you try and pay for something in a shop with a card you show them that and they refuse, and insist it is not a valid form of ID.
And what they do it is totally correct because, afaik it is not a valid id medium. If I remember correctly, if the ID is not mandatory and/or valid for travalling, then it is not valid. If you want to know which ones are likely to be accepted, have a look at PRADO.
As an example, I use my DNI in Sweden every time I am asked for an ID, and I have no trouble.

I had two tiers changed on the car last month, at the end they asked for photo ID, address, and NIE. WHY?!?! to prove that they sold them to me? - if that is the case, you must be very deceitful people. Anyway, no problem, all I have to show them is my passport (that contains my full name), and my "Residencia" (that contains my address). - But why should I have to carry with me so much paperwork when all this could be combined into one DNI? I think it would be practical for EU members to have a DNI, it has a place for your full name, date and place of birth, NIE number, address and a photo!:) But I doubt that they will, seeing as we bring all our money to Spain and invest in the Spanish economy. They can do it for immigrants outside the EU who bring absolutely nothing with them.
There are two forms of invoices in Spain, one without any detail of the buyer, and another with all details, you got the latter one (of course if you get issued the former one, you can always ask for the latter). The latter one is usually issued when you get a service (repair) or some purchase of something 'big' (car, fridge... house :). They don't really need to prove that they sold it to you, it is actually for your own good (they will give the VAT you are paying anyways to the tax office regardless of the invoicing mode); but in any case, those details don't usually matter (unless it is a house or something like that).
Next time... tell them, I don't they will care much (but let's say that in the future you lose your invoice, and they would be the only ones to give you a copy, that, without those details they wouldn't be able to... so it's up to you).
I think there is an idea of an EU-ID, but I doubt it will ever happen, too many countries are against that (look at UK... you had it, and then you got rid off it).
About the latter comment, I won't say much because it denotes (in my humble opinion) some xenophobia.

Just to be clear, NIE = Número de Identificación de Extranjero, it is just a number on an A4 sheet of paper not an ID card.
Check the link about the requirements for the corresponding card ;)

When Spain got into the EU it received and still is receiving billions of euros from the European Union for various things.
Like every other country in the EU, including UK. All countries pay and get back; some get back more than what they pay (but I think Spain is past that, now it is paying more than what it gets back).

Why don't they have a national health system? They have a regional one
There was one... but thanks to the (mistakenly) territorial system, Spain has these regions... and the 'competences' (I don't think this is the right word... but I cannot think of anything better right now) were transferred to the regional governments. But besides that, there is a national framework taking care that the quality is the same among all regions.
But again, each country decides this. Sweden has regional health systems too, and it is not any better or worst than Spanish one. It is the way it is.

OK fine, but why not have a database where all details of medical history are kept so if you are traveling to region to region they know who you are in an emergency?
I agree and finally, with the new decrees from the government there will be one unique medical record, for once and for all (and that includes one medical card).

Why have at least three different police forces with god knows how many different databases? Just one police database will do and also be more efficient.
Each law enforcement is in charge of something different. You might think they do the same things, but they do not. And I presume they have their own databases, but these are seamlessly connected (when it is about security and money, both the polices and the tax, social security, etc have a great collaboration...)

It would be good if the Guardia Civil merged with the Policia Nacional, but divide its self up into departments.
Well... the 'Policía' is a civil law enforcement, while the 'Guardia Civil' is a militar one... that might be tricky although it is aimed in the future.

I could keep going, but have not got the time right now.

Awaiting your feedback. ;)

Just some notes, and I'm done because this is not the place to do this. This is a forum to talk about mac... rumors!
And yes... I'm excited about the effort of Apple in Spain, which means that Apple believes in Spain in the medium-long term; which also means that I will be able to eventually go back to Spain and live there ;) with my mac bought right at the closest Apple Store (what about the rumours of the Apple Store in Valladolid... at the mall opened recently with IKEA?)
 
At Last, Someone Who Agrees With Me.

Here you go, stop complaining, and check if you fulfill the requirements


Actually I think that by checking the ID you have more security ;) Anyhow, I agree that it might be annoying. I find myself annoyed since I live in Sweden, and everything I need is the card and my PIN number. But this is also a matter of national policy, and I think that regardless of the new legislation (which says that for debit cards the PIN number will be preferred over the signatura, while for credit cards, the only valid thing is the signature), the merchant still has the right to ask for the ID because if it there is a problem... that merchant will have to pay the loss. But again, little by little, I think that when you pay with debit cards, more merchants avoid asking for the ID (specially in big stores)


And what they do it is totally correct because, afaik it is not a valid id medium. If I remember correctly, if the ID is not mandatory and/or valid for travalling, then it is not valid. If you want to know which ones are likely to be accepted, have a look at PRADO.
As an example, I use my DNI in Sweden every time I am asked for an ID, and I have no trouble.


There are two forms of invoices in Spain, one without any detail of the buyer, and another with all details, you got the latter one (of course if you get issued the former one, you can always ask for the latter). The latter one is usually issued when you get a service (repair) or some purchase of something 'big' (car, fridge... house :). They don't really need to prove that they sold it to you, it is actually for your own good (they will give the VAT you are paying anyways to the tax office regardless of the invoicing mode); but in any case, those details don't usually matter (unless it is a house or something like that).
Next time... tell them, I don't they will care much (but let's say that in the future you lose your invoice, and they would be the only ones to give you a copy, that, without those details they wouldn't be able to... so it's up to you).
I think there is an idea of an EU-ID, but I doubt it will ever happen, too many countries are against that (look at UK... you had it, and then you got rid off it).
About the latter comment, I won't say much because it denotes (in my humble opinion) some xenophobia.


Check the link about the requirements for the corresponding card ;)


Like every other country in the EU, including UK. All countries pay and get back; some get back more than what they pay (but I think Spain is past that, now it is paying more than what it gets back).


There was one... but thanks to the (mistakenly) territorial system, Spain has these regions... and the 'competences' (I don't think this is the right word... but I cannot think of anything better right now) were transferred to the regional governments. But besides that, there is a national framework taking care that the quality is the same among all regions.
But again, each country decides this. Sweden has regional health systems too, and it is not any better or worst than Spanish one. It is the way it is.


I agree and finally, with the new decrees from the government there will be one unique medical record, for once and for all (and that includes one medical card).


Each law enforcement is in charge of something different. You might think they do the same things, but they do not. And I presume they have their own databases, but these are seamlessly connected (when it is about security and money, both the polices and the tax, social security, etc have a great collaboration...)


Well... the 'Policía' is a civil law enforcement, while the 'Guardia Civil' is a militar one... that might be tricky although it is aimed in the future.



Just some notes, and I'm done because this is not the place to do this. This is a forum to talk about mac... rumors!
And yes... I'm excited about the effort of Apple in Spain, which means that Apple believes in Spain in the medium-long term; which also means that I will be able to eventually go back to Spain and live there ;) with my mac bought right at the closest Apple Store (what about the rumours of the Apple Store in Valladolid... at the mall opened recently with IKEA?)


One last thing, you do know that your ID card expired in January(all DNI issued to EU citizens were classed as invalid from the beginning of the year ), so when you do come back, you will be in the same boat as me.

Anyway, I showed up at the Nueva Condomina Store at 08:20 and was number 108 in the line. What an atmosphere. They managed to get people in the shop very quickly, and once I was in, I spent more time buying an iPod than waiting outside. Lovely people, and I hope that it makes an example to the rest of the region on how to go about business. Everything was top class, however It could have been clearer on how to pay for products (I was using cash). I would love to return, but also would like an Apple Store in CC Espacio Mediteraneo-Cartagena, as it is nearer.
 
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