Another one of those threads: Help me decide on a 2016-2017 13" MBP config

[hipnetic]

So, let's say I'm looking to spend within a certain budget, and I'm fine buying a refurb from Apple. I'm worried about the potential keyboard issues with the new design, but my college daughter really wants a 13" Retina model and wants the lighter weight of the newer models compared to the 2015 and earlier.

I'm looking to go with 256GB because she's an art student and I think 128GB is too limiting, but based on her used storage space on her current 256GB MacBook Air (2011) I think that 256GB should be fine.

I've thought about spending a little extra for 16GB instead of 8GB, since again, she's an art student, but I'm probably going to just go with 8GB to keep costs down.

She thought the Touch Bar was neat, but I personally don't love it (I've got a work-supplied 2016 15" w/Touch Bar). But I'm debating whether or not to get a model with it because of the better GPU that you get with it.

Then there's the question of 2016 vs 2017. My understanding is that the 2017 GPU supports HEVC natively. But what if you were deciding between a 2016 w/Touch Bar vs a 2017 without Touch Bar? The former would have a faster CPU/GPU but the 2017 would have a more modern CPU/GPU with native HEVC support.

Then I start to wonder if the difference between 8GB and 16GB more important than the difference between the better CPU I'd get with Touch Bar model vs the one without. So would it be better to get an 8GB Touch Bar model or a 16GB non-Touch Bar model?

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Just a note. If 256GB is okay now do consider 512GB, I usually take what I currently use and try double it as things tend to grow.

8GB/16GB is a personal thing. For a college student 8GB is absolutely fine, certain processes in certain apps may be slightly (Seconds) slower but as a student this is usually fine over spending more money. Having more RAM does not mean it can run more things at the same time, it just allows the open apps to run quicker when they run into memory issues. 16GB is a lot of RAM in todays computers, for example I've had Illustrator, PhotoShop, After Effects, Affinity Design, Safari (Got knows how many tabs), Chrome, Cinema 4D, and Keyshot open before on my 16GB, still no where near even orange for stress level. The exception is virtual machines, as they physically take up RAM rather than dynamically addressing it, so having more is always better there.

CPU wise the TB and nTB models have completely different CPU's. The nTB version uses a lower wattage CPU with weaker thermals, anything that stresses the CPU will immediately put it into TurboBoost and kick in the fans (Which is pretty much anything other than social media and essay writing).

TB is kind of useful in Adobe CC apps but is still unnecessary. But don't think of the TB, think of the better CPU/Thermals/Ports, the TB is just a visual difference, it's a more powerful computer underneath.

10bit 4K transcoding is hardware supported on the 2017 version. Unless your daughter is planning on editing/producing 4K videos it's really not worth it. There is some debate about whether it is useful for 4K streaming, however the Macs aren't 4K computer so again not really worth it.

So basically the 2016 TB is a faster and more appropriate computer, I would consider 512GB SSD over 16GB of RAM, ideally you'd want both however. But sacrificing a little bit of speed for the omission of external storage is usually a better idea with a portable computer.

The nTB version kind of just replaces the legacy Macs they used to sell. I don't like how they've used the same shell and called it a 'Pro', basically think of it as the entry level Mac for the office worker who needs to use MacOS but doesn't need the power of the film department. It's great for light work and office work, not for creative apps.

 

[hipnetic]

Thanks for the detailed reply!

Know anything about the battery life of non-TB vs TB and 2016 vs 2017? In another thread, someone claimed that there are battery improvements in 2017, but Apple's specs seem to claim "up to 10 hours" for the MacBook Pro 13 in 2016 and 2017 (and they don't seem to distinguish between TB vs non-TB in those claims).

 

[Poki]

Thanks for the detailed reply!

Know anything about the battery life of non-TB vs TB and 2016 vs 2017? In another thread, someone claimed that there are battery improvements in 2017, but Apple's specs seem to claim "up to 10 hours" for the MacBook Pro 13 in 2016 and 2017 (and they don't seem to distinguish between TB vs non-TB in those claims).

Apple probably just doesn't want to promote the advantages of the cheaper model. The one without the Touch Bar uses a lower wattage CPU (15W vs 28W), which also means it only needs one fan to cool it. Apple used the space they saved to increase the size of the battery. And obviously, a 15W CPU uses less power than a 28W CPU. So yes, the MacBook Pro without the Touch Bar does have better battery life. In most more or less real world comparisons I've seen the difference is like 1.5 hours runtime.

 

[hipnetic]

Poki, thanks for your reply. Your comments about the CPU wattage and battery life makes sense, but someone in another thread mentioned that the problem with the non-TB (less powerful CPU/GPU) model is that it can easily get taxed and then run in a "turbo" mode where the CPU will be running closer to 100% and drawing more battery life, whereas the more powerful TB model might run at a lower CPU usage. So perhaps the battery life balances out that way. In my daughter's case, she's going to be doing a combo of some Adobe app usage combined with a lot of Netflix and YouTube.

 

[Poki]

Poki, thanks for your reply. Your comments about the CPU wattage and battery life makes sense, but someone in another thread mentioned that the problem with the non-TB (less powerful CPU/GPU) model is that it can easily get taxed and then run in a "turbo" mode where the CPU will be running closer to 100% and drawing more battery life, whereas the more powerful TB model might run at a lower CPU usage. So perhaps the battery life balances out that way. In my daughter's case, she's going to be doing a combo of some Adobe app usage combined with a lot of Netflix and YouTube.

Without going too deep - the TDP numbers of Intel's chips no longer represent the actual power usage. The OEM can basically decide how much power the chip is allowed to drain. Apple could, for example, say that the chip is not allowed to drain more than 12W, which would basically allow no turbo boost at all. However, they opted for the other route - the 15W chips in the nTB MBP can basically draw as much power as they want to keep the maximum available turbo frequency as long as the cooling system can control the heat. This means these chips effectively can draw 28W or more. However, the 28W chips would draw even more under these circumstances, and performance per watt is usually a little better with the lower wattage chips.

Having that said, neither Netflix nor YouTube nor most Adobe workflows will tax the CPU a lot. InDesign and Illustrator don't need much processing most of the time, and even Photoshop usually only needs the full CPU power for relatively short amounts of time while it's calculating transformations or other intensive stuff. After Effects and Premiere of course would drain a lot of battery on either machine.

In most workflows, you should see at least an hour more battery life on the nTB MBP.

 

[ZapNZs]

If battery life is important, the 2016 TB 13 is probably going to have the weakest runtimes between the three different models comprising two revisions (i.e., the six available systems with the current style.)

Based on what you have described, a 2017 nTB with the i5/8/256 sounds like a reasonable choice. Further, this model is often stocked in stores (i.e., it is not a BTO), meaning it is subject to go on sales (sometimes with new models being priced less than refurbs - especially if you can combine student discounts with other promotions). With the money you would save there, you could purchase AC+, which IMO is a very good thing to have with a college laptop (especially since it now has AD protection.)

 

[hipnetic]

You mentioned student discounts, which made me think to check to see if Apple offered a student discount. From what I can tell, they sell the 2017 13" non-TB 8GB, 256GB model for $1449 through their Education store. That's only $50 less than the regular price. Am I missing something?

 

[Glmnet1]

You mentioned student discounts, which made me think to check to see if Apple offered a student discount. From what I can tell, they sell the 2017 13" non-TB 8GB, 256GB model for $1449 through their Education store. That's only $50 less than the regular price. Am I missing something?

No, that's about it. More expensive items may have a bigger rebate.

 

[robvas]

2017 for the speed/keyboard unless you get a really, really good deal on a 2016

 

[hipnetic]

Yeah, I think I've decided to definitely go with the 2017. And I'm leaning towards just going with 8GB of RAM since most of what I've read is that the added RAM is mostly beneficial to people who run VMs, which wouldn't be the case with my daughter.

So now I'm just trying to decide between the TB and non-TB model. I think I'm leaning towards spending a little more and getting the TB model. My daughter thought it was neat and I'm thinking that the added CPU/GPU power might have some benefit to the graphic design work she might use it for. The approx $260 more I'll pay for that model is a blip on the radar compared to what we have to contribute towards her college tuition.

 

[ZapNZs]

You mentioned student discounts, which made me think to check to see if Apple offered a student discount. From what I can tell, they sell the 2017 13" non-TB 8GB, 256GB model for $1449 through their Education store. That's only $50 less than the regular price. Am I missing something?

Best Buy sometimes has promotions that are far better than Apple. IIRC their discounts have been as high as $150 off for this, and IIRC some owners have mentioned they were able to do this in combination with other promotions.

The 13-inch touchbar is a nice system, and the two extra ports are great to have. For her described usage, it sounds like she could potentially utilize the touchbar to her benefit. You certainly can't go wrong with this selection, and the 2017 version of the TB13 has improved battery life over the 2016 it replaced. (With that said, the nTB is still going to, for most usage situations, have better battery life.)

 

[hipnetic]

I should have mentioned (I think I mentioned it before) that based on the pricing I'm seeing, I'm looking mostly at the refurb models that Apple sells online. Best Buy had a sale the other day where I could have gotten a non-TB 13" 8GB / 256GB for $1349, which is still about $80 more than the refurb from Apple's store. But if I want a TB version, the price gap was much larger. And now that that Best Buy sale is over, the refurb store on Apple.com is the only way to go. Of course, that could change tomorrow with some retailer putting some models on sale again.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

If you can buy directly from Apple then do so. I'm not 100% on the US situation, but usually the warranty is held by the company that sold you the product - not the manufacturer (Whom the retailer will defer to). So if there are any issues and you've brought it from Apple, you can take it to any Apple store worldwide and they'll help you. If you buy from a 3rd party and the computer requires a repair, they may ask you to go through wherever you brought it. If the price is close enough I'd buy from Apple just for the ease and peace of mind.

 

[Poki]

If you can buy directly from Apple then do so. I'm not 100% on the US situation, but usually the warranty is held by the company that sold you the product - not the manufacturer (Whom the retailer will defer to). So if there are any issues and you've brought it from Apple, you can take it to any Apple store worldwide and they'll help you. If you buy from a 3rd party and the computer requires a repair, they may ask you to go through wherever you brought it. If the price is close enough I'd buy from Apple just for the ease and peace of mind.

That's how it is with most companies. With Apple, I always got my warranty directly from Apple, no matter where I bought the products. I order something somewhere on ebay? No problem, Apple stores always welcome me.

 

[1rottenapple]

I should have mentioned (I think I mentioned it before) that based on the pricing I'm seeing, I'm looking mostly at the refurb models that Apple sells online. Best Buy had a sale the other day where I could have gotten a non-TB 13" 8GB / 256GB for $1349, which is still about $80 more than the refurb from Apple's store. But if I want a TB version, the price gap was much larger. And now that that Best Buy sale is over, the refurb store on Apple.com is the only way to go. Of course, that could change tomorrow with some retailer putting some models on sale again.

I've seen really good deals on bhphoto's used unites. Saw a used 999 ntb 2017 BMP 128gb model. I ended up going with a refurbished unit from apple but that was enticing. If you are outside new york where you pay no taxes, its over 180-200 discount.

 

[hipnetic]

Thanks for reminding me of the B&H Photo tax savings. I was already aware of this but was too forgetful/lazy to crunch the numbers before. So the model I think I want is $1649 (on sale) with no tax for me. The Apple refurb of that model after tax still ends up cheaper, but by less than $30. The difference shrinks further with the purchase of AppleCare. So I may go ahead and spend the few dollars more to get a brand new sealed box.

On the point of AppleCare...this never goes on sale anymore, right?

 

[1rottenapple]

Thanks for reminding me of the B&H Photo tax savings. I was already aware of this but was too forgetful/lazy to crunch the numbers before. So the model I think I want is $1649 (on sale) with no tax for me. The Apple refurb of that model after tax still ends up cheaper, but by less than $30. The difference shrinks further with the purchase of AppleCare. So I may go ahead and spend the few dollars more to get a brand new sealed box.

On the point of AppleCare...this never goes on sale anymore, right?

Hmmmm anyone of a reliable place to buy Apple care for cheaper than apple’s price of $279???? Legitimate place for that matter.

 

[hipnetic]

Well, I went ahead and ordered a 2017 13" MBP w/TB, 8GB RAM, 256GB storage. Ordered it at B&H (on sale for $1649), plus AppleCare+ ($269). So $1918, all told.

 

[1rottenapple]

Is that brand new? How much did you save.

 

[hipnetic]

New. Normal price $1799 ($150 savings). Not an amazing sale price...it's about the normal sale price for this model, brand new. But the fact that B&H is outside of my state helps, since I save on sales tax.

The alernative was buying it as a refurb from Apple for $1529. But then I'd have to pay 6.35% CT sales tax, which would bring it close to that same price.

 

[ET iPhone Home]

I'm about to make a purchase on a 2017 MBP-tb 15". Are there still keyboard issues? I don't want to fork out all this money of the 2017 MBP's have major issues.

 

[1rottenapple]

I'm about to make a purchase on a 2017 MBP-tb 15". Are there still keyboard issues? I don't want to fork out all this money of the 2017 MBP's have major issues.

Ya I think there is but f-it it.

Not sure what the probability is but I don't believe in worrying about those things.

 

[ET iPhone Home]

Ya I think there is but f-it it.

Not sure what the probability is but I don't believe in worrying about those things.

So I can comfortably move forward with my purchase? I bought an X. I've had it for a week now - no Apple Care. So far no issues like some have posted in the iPhone forum. I'm hoping the same for this 2017 MBP-TB I'm about to purchase. I can't believe I'm already worried over a new $2399 laptop - it's crazy.

 

[1rottenapple]

So I can comfortably move forward with my purchase? I bought an X. I've had it for a week now - no Apple Care. So far no issues like some have posted in the iPhone forum. I'm hoping the same for this 2017 MBP-TB I'm about to purchase. I can't believe I'm already worried over a new $2399 laptop - it's crazy.

For me it’s not worth it to worry. Life is too short. I’m happy with my purchase.