Another PPC or Intel?

[Dronecatcher]

Looks like I'll be getting a tax rebate coming my way soon, so I might (and that is a big might) splash out on another Mac.
I see most users have Intels aswell, so wondered on any opinions on Macbooks and first gen Macbook Pros? Looking on ebay, the Macbooks generally don't look good - they haven't aged well and in my opinion tend to look cheap and well, "plasticy"? Any comments on reliability - and what about the Pros?
My other option is a G5 Quad (though my current dual is fine for everything) or a dedicated OS9 machine for tinkering (Ti book, Quicksilver or single MDD).
The problem is I could drum up a "legitimate" reason for getting a new Mac of any description

 

[powermi]

at first... whats the propose of this machine for? if you don't have one, then you don't need it at all.
second.. is not necessary to have an Intel Mac or a PC. You only need skills. I am a powerPc user and have lot of powermacs and few powerbooks, and no Intel machines.
third.. If you look for reliability then go with for a powerpc for the long term use.

 

[Dronecatcher]

at first... whats the propose of this machine for? if you don't have one, then you don't need it at all.
second.. is not necessary to have an Intel Mac or a PC. You only need skills. I am a powerPc user and have lot of powermacs and few powerbooks, and no Intel machines.
third.. If you look for reliability then go with for a powerpc for the long term use.

To answer your points powermi: purpose - a quad would take over as my main machine and i'd keep the 2.3 G5 as back up. A decent Macbook (Pro) could double on duties as a replacement mobile instead of my Powerbook and a back up to my G5 as it would be nearly as capable. An OS9 machine isn't a necessity - as i said, it would be for tinkering about with.
I absolutely agree, skills are essential and for the most part PowerPC can currently cope - I've been using PPC exclusively for years and that's for work too in Graphic Design. However, when buying another Mac I have to consider the what ifs of PPC compatibility - and when a second hand Intel is now nearly the same price as PPC, it's something to consider.

 

[powermi]

ok, its clear now. anyway i would go for a powerPc, powerBook 1,67 2gb RAM. If not... take the first models of the macBook pro. They are quite reliable too.

 

[weckart]

ok, its clear now. anyway i would go for a powerPc, powerBook 1,67 2gb RAM. If not... take the first models of the macBook pro. They are quite reliable too.

I would humbly disagree. The very first models were anything but reliable. 32 bit processors, so a dead end with anything that required running 64 bit code. Furthermore - no FW800 and thermal problems due to Apple's still grappling with the change of architecture. Avoid the CoreDuo models like the plague; they stank like the rushed stopgap models they were.

I also had the first Core2Duo MBP with the ATI gpu. This was my least favourite Mac ever. Apple decided in its wisdom to coat the displays with a very liberal layer of anti-glare. Whites were grey, fonts were fuzzy (and unreadable under Bootcamp) and everything had a glittery sheen to it. No amount of calibration could fix it. Same generation Dells and HPs seemed to be equally blighted but the Apple looked worse. I don't think there is a 64bit driver for the ATI gpu so you will also be stuck at Lion.

From the Santa Rosa models onwards you have the ability to run the latest OS revision but you also have the joy of the hot running nVidia gpu and death by cooking.

I would honestly save up a bit and plump for one of the Unibody models. Easier to install hard drives into and, except for the 2011 clunker, by and large a bit more reliable than what went before.

 

[roadbloc]

It all boils down to if you need new software or not. If you only need the software you already use on your PowerPC and you don't forsee using dated software ever becoming an issue for you, PowerPC is most likely best option for sheer familiarity alone. And because they're freaking awesome.

However, if newer software is needed, an Intel machine is probably the best use of your money.

I'm in the fortunate position where I don't need newer software. Office 2004 suffices for my professional usage and with the continued ability to web browse and watch YouTube videos, PowerPCs are perfect for me. I do own a gaming rig, however I wouldn't ever game on a Mac anyway due to the overall lack of titles and the increasing inability to upgrade hardware.

 

[eyoungren]

whats the propose of this machine for? if you don't have one, then you don't need it at all.

Why does need always have to factor in to these threads?

I don't need six displays on my Quicksilver. Hell, I don't need two. But I want six displays and so I have six displays.

This is just like the arguments in the iPhone forums about purchasing only the model with the capacity you need.

BS. I'll buy what I want and I don't give a frak if I need it or not.

Note, this is not a hostile post. I'm just stating my opinion.

 

[poiihy]

I would humbly disagree. The very first models were anything but reliable. 32 bit processors, so a dead end with anything that required running 64 bit code. Furthermore - no FW800 and thermal problems due to Apple's still grappling with the change of architecture. Avoid the CoreDuo models like the plague; they stank like the rushed stopgap models they were.

I also had the first Core2Duo MBP with the ATI gpu. This was my least favourite Mac ever. Apple decided in its wisdom to coat the displays with a very liberal layer of anti-glare. Whites were grey, fonts were fuzzy (and unreadable under Bootcamp) and everything had a glittery sheen to it. No amount of calibration could fix it. Same generation Dells and HPs seemed to be equally blighted but the Apple looked worse. I don't think there is a 64bit driver for the ATI gpu so you will also be stuck at Lion.

From the Santa Rosa models onwards you have the ability to run the latest OS revision but you also have the joy of the hot running nVidia gpu and death by cooking.

I would honestly save up a bit and plump for one of the Unibody models. Easier to install hard drives into and, except for the 2011 clunker, by and large a bit more reliable than what went before.

I had a 15-inc Core2Duo MacBook Pro like you mentioned; it had 2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo and ATI Mobility Radeon GPU. That was my favorite MBP . I don't like the unibody. I see no point in having a unibody casing, but it has a lot of downsides. If you want to replace the keyboard, you have to take out almost everything, and then peel off the keyboard plastic cover and unscrew each microscopic screw. On the older MacBook Pro's (what is the nickname for those?) the entire top cover can be removed and you can easily replace the keyboard and trackpad. And it is more comfortable; you don't need to turn it upside-down. You just work on it right there. You can probably even watch a movie while you work on it

 

[weckart]

On the older MacBook Pro's (what is the nickname for those?) the entire top cover can be removed and you can easily replace the keyboard and trackpad. And it is more comfortable; you don't need to turn it upside-down. You just work on it right there. You can probably even watch a movie while you work on it

I disagree. I have done all of this and it the worst model to strip. Even worse than the PB 12". You do have to flip it over to remove the keyboard because you have to remove screws from the base by the memory compartment in order to release the top cover, to which the keyboard is affixed.

Also, the clips around the optical drive are even more fiendish to disengage than those of the similar Powerbook models. It is very difficult to remove the top cover without slightly warping the top and bottom cases and it is very easy to spot a previously opened MBP because of the gapping in the front between the top and bottom case.

Glad you liked your ATI C2D. Perhaps you got a decent one. I hated mine and I was not the only one.

 

[poiihy]

I disagree. I have done all of this and it the worst model to strip. Even worse than the PB 12". You do have to flip it over to remove the keyboard because you have to remove screws from the base by the memory compartment in order to release the top cover, to which the keyboard is affixed.

Also, the clips around the optical drive are even more fiendish to disengage than those of the similar Powerbook models. It is very difficult to remove the top cover without slightly warping the top and bottom cases and it is very easy to spot a previously opened MBP because of the gapping in the front between the top and bottom case.

Glad you liked your ATI C2D. Perhaps you got a decent one. I hated mine and I was not the only one.

The unibody MBPs have sharp edges making it uncomfortable to type on.

I liked the keyboards of the old MBPs.

 

[reco2011]

Why does need always have to factor in to these threads?

I don't need six displays on my Quicksilver. Hell, I don't need two. But I want six displays and so I have six displays.

This is just like the arguments in the iPhone forums about purchasing only the model with the capacity you need.

BS. I'll buy what I want and I don't give a frak if I need it or not.

Note, this is not a hostile post. I'm just stating my opinion.

The initial part of his post asks what the purpose of the machine will be. He then goes on to state without a purpose then there is no need to buy one. Or maybe he should have written "There's no point in buying one". The purpose can be anything...want, desire, need, what-have-you. But without some purpose he's right...it makes no sense to buy something you're not going to do anything with. Unless the purpose is merely to own another Mac.

 

[cocacolakid]

OP does answer what his purpose is, though, it's to upgrade either his G5 to a quad core or upgrade his Powerbook to a MB/MBP, both understandable. But as others have said, we're all grown ups, splurging on used Macs isn't a crime, even if we do not need another machine.

My two cents, I'd try and buy a unibody MBP over a quad core G5. You'll get more life, be open to more apps/updated versions of apps you might already use, and the performance increase going from the dual core G5 to the quad core likely isn't as much as going from a PB to a MBP.

I don't know what the OP's budget is but if he shops around patiently, scours ebay completed sales to get some ideas on what models sell for what, then he'll know what is a good price when he sees one, regardless of where it's being sold.

 

[eyoungren]

The initial part of his post asks what the purpose of the machine will be. He then goes on to state without a purpose then there is no need to buy one. Or maybe he should have written "There's no point in buying one". The purpose can be anything...want, desire, need, what-have-you. But without some purpose he's right...it makes no sense to buy something you're not going to do anything with. Unless the purpose is merely to own another Mac.

If that is what was meant then I would tend to agree with you, except that there have been many times in my life where I simply got something or received something from someone without any reason or purpose at all.

I hold on to things until I either find a purpose or someone who needs what I have. Perhaps that is a purpose or reason in and of itself, I don't know. My point was just that in the things I am interested in, need is rarely a factor. If I happen to need something then that works out, but having a purpose or a reason to buy or receive something is really irrelevant to me.

 

[reco2011]

OP does answer what his purpose is, though, it's to upgrade either his G5 to a quad core or upgrade his Powerbook to a MB/MBP, both understandable. But as others have said, we're all grown ups, splurging on used Macs isn't a crime, even if we do not need another machine.

I think you need to stop focusing on the word need and focus on the part of his message where he asked what is the purpose of the system. If the purpose is to drain his bank account some more to have it sit in a closet then so be it. If it's because he wants to buy another Mac then its purpose is so he can buy another Mac. Neither are good reasons but if that's the purpose so be it.

----------

If that is what was meant then I would tend to agree with you, except that there have been many times in my life where I simply got something or received something from someone without any reason or purpose at all.

I hold on to things until I either find a purpose or someone who needs what I have. Perhaps that is a purpose or reason in and of itself, I don't know. My point was just that in the things I am interested in, need is rarely a factor. If I happen to need something then that works out, but having a purpose or a reason to buy or receive something is really irrelevant to me.

Holding on to something you already own is different than buying something you don't already have. However if you want to buy something with the thought it might be gifted or used in the future that's as good a purpose as any.

 

[Altemose]

Personally I would buy a Quad G5 because there is nothing like owning the top of the line.

 

[cocacolakid]

I think you need to stop focusing on the word need and focus on the part of his message where he asked what is the purpose of the system. If the purpose is to drain his bank account some more to have it sit in a closet then so be it. If it's because he wants to buy another Mac then its purpose is so he can buy another Mac. Neither are good reasons but if that's the purpose so be it.

So I take it upgrading is never allowed in your home. Which means you have only owned one computer in your life and still use it?

One person asks a question and suddenly the sky is falling. Maybe the OP wants to drain his bank account, since he said he has extra money coming in and might decide to spend it. It's not your money, not our money, it's the OP's. The OP can do anything he wants with it.

 

[powermi]

Why does need always have to factor in to these threads?

I don't need six displays on my Quicksilver. Hell, I don't need two. But I want six displays and so I have six displays.

This is just like the arguments in the iPhone forums about purchasing only the model with the capacity you need.

BS. I'll buy what I want and I don't give a frak if I need it or not.

Note, this is not a hostile post. I'm just stating my opinion.

No offense... But if you have to make a choice between PPC and Intel you should have a task planed for the computer. I work all on powerPc machines, some are just there for future spares (if needed) and others are being ysed right now. I use to buy PPC computers without a planed task too, so i could understand that someone would buy one for pleasure, and i could agree with that. Anyway and again.. i would suggest to go with powerPc for the long term run.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Thanks for all the comments/advice guys - I was going to answer each one individually but there's a lot to get through, so I'll try and respond to all here.
I can understand how some may feel that spending money on a Mac that is absolutely not essential or needed at the time is just a frivolous waste of money, however most of us don't operate like that. When you actively immerse yourself in an environment where reading about, understanding and implementing a technology is something you enjoy doing, it's natural to spend money on a device purely to experience how it performs/feels/looks/works or whatever. The fact that it will be actually put to real regular use is a bonus.
If you're a collector, then just owning it is justification enough. I'm not a collector, I currently have three Macs, they're all PPC, they're all used and I've had more satisfaction getting the best from them than any device that's worked straight out of then box.
The main point I was originally making was to ask for general advice on first generation Macbook(Pros) - which I received and now I have some info to work on before I make a decision.
I don't have any software requirements currently that require me to grab an Intel. My main thrust of argument for using PPC is always to use software the machine was designed for and with that you can do anything you need to.
Anything web related is the obvious pitfall and I am anticipating Spotify to terminate their PPC compatibility anytime soon - that's when an Intel machine would become essential.
From advice given, looks like an Intel machine might be still a long way down the line as the ones floating at the crossover price point are not recommended - and a unibody at this stage is still too pricey.
Finally a reality check - I've just looked into how long my tax refund will take - anywhere between 5 days & 6 months

 

[HansiS]

Hi,

A few days ago, I bought myself a late-2009 Unibody 17" MacBook Pro. I also considered getting a Non-Unibody one, because of Powerbook-like casing, but in the end, I chose the Unibody for Yosemite etc.

I am dissapointed with the build quality or feel. The case is not firm, but it gives way to pressure, makes clicky-sounds and the plastic display hinge makes noises when the System heats up. In comparison, my Powerbook feels like a solid block. A hard to maintain solid block.

Maintenance of the Unibody is really easy and Yosemite is nice, but the most interesting features like airplay-mirroring or hand-off or airdrop need a more actual unit (2011+).

Sadly my MacBook is faulty and i have to send it back, but I really tend to get a non-Unibody MacBook Pro and be happy with Mountain Lion. But all these faulty GPUs in the early models don't sound that great too.

 

[lowendlinux]

I have a 2,1 1.83 MacBook that is still ticking they don't seem like they'd be all that great quality wise but this one has been in daily use since 07. It was given to me a couple years ago because the gent bought a MBA I use it as a file server so it's on 24/7 but not active much.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Hi,

A few days ago, I bought myself a late-2009 Unibody 17" MacBook Pro. I also considered getting a Non-Unibody one, because of Powerbook-like casing, but in the end, I chose the Unibody for Yosemite etc.

I am dissapointed with the build quality or feel. The case is not firm, but it gives way to pressure, makes clicky-sounds and the plastic display hinge makes noises when the System heats up. In comparison, my Powerbook feels like a solid block. A hard to maintain solid block.

Maintenance of the Unibody is really easy and Yosemite is nice, but the most interesting features like airplay-mirroring or hand-off or airdrop need a more actual unit (2011+).

Sadly my MacBook is faulty and i have to send it back, but I really tend to get a non-Unibody MacBook Pro and be happy with Mountain Lion. But all these faulty GPUs in the early models don't sound that great too.

This is what I suspected/feared - a steady decline in build quality as Apple are more interested in chasing the dollar with machines with built in obsolescence!

----------

I have a 2,1 1.83 MacBook that is still ticking they don't seem like they'd be all that great quality wise but this one has been in daily use since 07. It was given to me a couple years ago because the gent bought a MBA I use it as a file server so it's on 24/7 but not active much.

My negative impression of Macbooks has been since looking for secondhand ones through ebay - they generally look tatty with broken plastic, usually at the front.

 

[HansiS]

My negative impression of Macbooks has been since looking for secondhand ones through ebay - they generally look tatty with broken plastic, usually at the front.

They also tend to have cracks at the hinges and the white ones seem to get a more yellowish color. The black models seem to be a little bit more sturdy, but are way pricier - at least here in Germany. I looked at them too, but I really like the Aluminium of my Powerbook and I don't want a plastic case.

 

[weckart]

My negative impression of Macbooks has been since looking for secondhand ones through ebay - they generally look tatty with broken plastic, usually at the front.

They are not known as Crackbooks for nothing. Mine is a mid-2007 model and has all the requisite cracks, splits and missing bits that broke away from the palmrests. Whoever designed this and selected the brittle plastics was a numpty. Small wonder Apple had to implement a top case replacement programme with sturdier components.

Having said that, they seem pretty robust apart from the cosmetic failings noted above and mine has never given me a minute's bother. After the next nuclear winter the only things that will be left on planet Earth will be cockroaches and tatty Macbooks.

 

[Dronecatcher]

After the next nuclear winter the only things that will be left on planet Earth will be cockroaches and tatty Macbooks.

Ha Ha "iBugs"

 

[reco2011]

So I take it upgrading is never allowed in your home. Which means you have only owned one computer in your life and still use it?

First I wasn't the one who started this whole debate. I merely stated that, IMO, powermi wasn't making the statement of need literally given what he wrote a mere few words before the word need.

With that out of the way upgrading an existing system is a purpose. The purpose being to upgrade an older machine with a newer one.

One person asks a question and suddenly the sky is falling. Maybe the OP wants to drain his bank account, since he said he has extra money coming in and might decide to spend it. It's not your money, not our money, it's the OP's. The OP can do anything he wants with it.

No, the sky is not falling. In fact it wasn't until Eric responded that this became a subject of discussion. It was clear powermi was stating if you don't have a purpose for buying it then why buy it? As I said...if the purpose is to drain his bank account so he can put it in the closet then so be it. As you said...it's his money. But I think most of us would think that's a foolish purpose. I don't know...perhaps I'm in the minority with the opinion that's a foolish purpose for buying a new computer. Somehow I don't think that's what the OP intends to do with it though. Again maybe I'm wrong. But if that is what he wants to do with it that's fine. After all, foolish as it is, draining his bank account a little bit so he can have it sitting in his closet is his intended purpose for it.