Another RAM question (16GB/24GB)...

[Wingnuts]

Hi all,
I am upgrading my Intel MBP 2020 as it constantly overheats and kernel panics every day or so.

I can get a great deal on the 16GB MBA and okay-ish on the 24GB model (education discount). I have been reading a variety of conflicting opinions and I'm unsure which one to get. I'd love to get the 16GB and save myself a few hundred dollars, but I can stretch to the 24GB if required.

Current use case includes: email, quite a bit of safari (20 tabs), wordpress/cpanel stuff, YouTube, education (university engineering, so think more web apps e.g. Canvas), lots of chatgpt, some scripting every so often for embedded programming (usually small C scripts or java programs). I have a single monitor so I don't truly do any real "multi-tasking" - other than switching browser tabs...

I'd like to get your thoughts. I have the 16GB model with me right now, but am still in the return window to get the 24GB. I'd like to get 4+ years out of it.

 

[Basic75]

That's not very heavy, 16GB should be fine.

PS: C is a programming language, not a scripting language; nobody says "C scripts".

 

[cjsuk]

16Gb is fine.

On the C programming side, I was compiling stuff on a machine with 16MB of RAM back in the day!

 

[Wingnuts]

That's not very heavy, 16GB should be fine.

PS: C is a programming language, not a scripting language; nobody says "C scripts".

16Gb is fine.

On the C programming side, I was compiling stuff on a machine with 16MB of RAM back in the day!

Thanks all. Would running a Win VM doing FPGA stuff (again, not complicated programs) be ok on the 16GB. Not extensive use at all, but maybe a few weeks a year.

 

[Basic75]

Thanks all. Would running a Win VM doing FPGA stuff (again, not complicated programs) be ok on the 16GB. Not extensive use at all, but maybe a few weeks a year.

VMs run an entire second operating system, that can use a lot of memory. You should check the real-world memory requirements of the FPGA applications.

 

[FreakinEurekan]

Since you have the 16GB already… load it up, maximum apps/tabs/etc you’re likely to use, plus one or two for growth… and check Memory Pressure. If it’s yellow or red, return it & get 24GB. If green you’re good to go.

 

[Fishrrman]

More RAM is always better.
24gb at least.
32gb is better (I consider it to be "the new minimum"...).

 

[Ben J.]

Since you have the 16GB already… load it up, maximum apps/tabs/etc you’re likely to use, plus one or two for growth… and check Memory Pressure. If it’s yellow or red, return it & get 24GB. If green you’re good to go.

This is very good advice.

More RAM is always better.
24gb at least.
32gb is better (I consider it to be "the new minimum"...).

Too much ram is wasted ram - and wasted money.

 

[Wingnuts]

Since you have the 16GB already… load it up, maximum apps/tabs/etc you’re likely to use, plus one or two for growth… and check Memory Pressure. If it’s yellow or red, return it & get 24GB. If green you’re good to go.

It's yellow with just Safari/couple of electron apps open. Goes back to green after I close a few tabs.
Back to yellow of course with a VM. Even though I won't be using the VM very often I think it's best to upgrade to the 24GB?

 

[Ben J.]

A couple of screenshots of the Activity Monitor CPU and Memory tabs, sorted by size/%usage, would be helpful.

 

[throAU]

More RAM is always better.
24gb at least.
32gb is better (I consider it to be "the new minimum"...).

Legit advice, but I'd consider 24 the new minimum for a serious machine. But that's just opinion/splitting hairs.

8 GB for the OS, 16 GB is still a reasonable amount for user stuff unless you're running local AI inference.


I'm still stunned at just how well M series works under load. I've had both my M1 Pro (16gb) and M4 max (64gb) running in the red for memory pressure and it was barely noticeable. The machines just don't care and the OS stays responsive, etc.


OP is going to be blown away by the performance of even a 16GB M series machine because they just run so well under load (memory/ssd bandwidth helping a lot, I presume - plus M processor just smokes)

 

[TorontoSS]

To me 16gb would be fine but everything around you tells you "go for 24!" and in the end, in my experience i cave and get the more ram. I don't know if it's helped me int he past but it's been there for piece of mind for me.
I will say, if you plan on keeping it long term then yes 24gb is legit better.
Particularly since you can't add it later, just gives some more headroom.

If you're the type of person who just buys and forgets it, then 16 is fine and if you want to sell in two years then go for 16.

 

[Ben J.]

8 GB for the OS

This makes no sense to me.

This is what Activity Monitor says about my mac right now, running relatively idle - a couple of news and sports streaming running in Firefox, not having been shut down or restarted for weeks: (Screenshots like I would like to see also from the OP)

 

[benwiggy]

Too much ram is wasted ram - and wasted money.

RAM is rarely wasted -- MacOS will use as much RAM as is available. I have 32 Gb, and "Memory Used" + "Cached Files" is nearly always equal to 32 Gb, unless I've rebooted recently. The more stuff that's in RAM, the better.

That having been said, even with limited RAM:

I'm still stunned at just how well M series works under load. I've had both my M1 Pro (16gb) and M4 max (64gb) running in the red for memory pressure and it was barely noticeable. The machines just don't care and the OS stays responsive, etc.

Indeed. I've seen 8 Gb Macs coping with about 24 Gb of data, thanks to compression and swap, with only a tiny sluggishness in response.

"People tend to think of memory management like sharing slices of cake, or dealing out cards, but in fact, it's much more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly memory-wemory stuff."

 

[Ben J.]

RAM is rarely wasted -- MacOS will use as much RAM as is available. I have 32 Gb, and "Memory Used" + "Cached Files" is nearly always equal to 32 Gb, unless I've rebooted recently. The more stuff that's in RAM, the better

Of course. You're right. One of the reasons I choose to not shut down or sleep my mac. Not flushing out the ram with restart. MacOS manages the memory.

Memory pressure is the clue. See my screenshot above. Lots of memory used, but low in the green. Most of the memory used is 'releasable'. If you never, or seldom, see the yellow/red and heavy swapping, you're 'in the green'.

(Added: IOW; if you don't see memory being 'pressured' into the yellows and reds, adding more memory will not mean much, if anything, for general performance, and therefore not worth spending money on.)

 

[Andy_2341]

I have a slightly different work flow but use a MBA M4 16/256. Recently I've been running a Win 11 VM through Parallels to run solidworks CAD. It's been running really well despite a lot of spaces, broswer tabs, yellow pressure, and a little swap. If you can afford it though, I'd probably go for 24 since you are already typically yellow. 16 will run better than you expect but if you need to push harder or get really busy and have to leave things open, it's gonna be easier to do the 24 for the next 4 years.

 

[Fishrrman]

benwiggy wrote:
"RAM is rarely wasted -- MacOS will use as much RAM as is available. I have 32 Gb, and "Memory Used" + "Cached Files" is nearly always equal to 32 Gb, unless I've rebooted recently. The more stuff that's in RAM, the better."

I agree.
I have VM disk swapping DISABLED, so EVERYTHING on my Mac(s) runs in "live RAM".

As I began posting a few years' back, after the m-series Macs came out:
"16gb is the new 8".

Are there still that many folks who would disagree with that assertion?

Similarly, considering the way this AI stuff is growing, I'd expect to see "the needs of the OS" (and apps that run on it) grow similarly in the next 3-5 years.

Which is why I now say:
"32gb is the new 16"...

 

[throAU]

This makes no sense to me.

This is what Activity Monitor says about my mac right now, running relatively idle - a couple of news and sports streaming running in Firefox, not having been shut down or restarted for weeks: (Screenshots like I would like to see also from the OP)
View attachment 2622473View attachment 2622474

What point are you trying to make here?

I mean if we’re just posting activity monitor screenshots with no explanation, here:

(machine - m4 max was still totally responsive, it didn’t give a crap)

 

[Wingnuts]

I have a slightly different work flow but use a MBA M4 16/256. Recently I've been running a Win 11 VM through Parallels to
run solidworks CAD. It's been running really well despite a lot of spaces, broswer tabs, yellow pressure, and a little swap. If you can afford it though, I'd probably go for 24 since you are already typically yellow. 16 will run better than you expect but if you need to push harder or get really busy and have to leave things open, it's gonna be easier to do the 24 for the next 4 years.

What point are you trying to make here?

I mean if we’re just posting activity monitor screenshots with no explanation, here:

(machine - m4 max was still totally responsive, it didn’t give a crap)

I just installed a Win 11 VM on Parallels; Activity Monitor reported a few GB of swap + yellow memory pressure (red when booting - assume yellow ≠ bad), but the machine still felt very responsive - aside from some scrolling lag in ChatGPT. I would use the VM only a couple of times a month...

I am astounded at how well it's performing compared to my Intel machine - and it runs at such a cool temperature! My Intel machine would overheat and consistently kernel panic (no idea why, maybe blocked vents or something).
I think I'm leaning on keeping the 16GB as I can't really see my use cases expanding - it's for undergrad study after all i.e. no enterprise use.

 

[Andy_2341]

I just installed a Win 11 VM on Parallels; Activity Monitor reported a few GB of swap + yellow memory pressure (red when booting - assume yellow ≠ bad), but the machine still felt very responsive - aside from some scrolling lag in ChatGPT. I would use the VM only a couple of times a month...

I am astounded at how well it's performing compared to my Intel machine - and it runs at such a cool temperature! My Intel machine would overheat and consistently kernel panic (no idea why, maybe blocked vents or something).
I think I'm leaning on keeping the 16GB as I can't really see my use cases expanding - it's for undergrad study after all i.e. no enterprise use.

Red when starting is interesting. My MBA M4 remains green till I'm actively running CAD. Yellow doesn't mean bad, just sorta a warning of sorts. Like your computer saying hey, if you keep pushing further you might need more ram. Red is it saying get more ram or else I'm going to bog down.

But for only a few times a month, your current machine should be more than fine. I intend on keeping my MBA for the next 4 years too which is why I didn't go 24 or more. 16 should be fine, especially considering the Neo just launched with 8 and will need about 6 years of updates.

The performance of these Apple Silicon Macs are really impressive. I can't believe how cool they run despite loads you wouldn't expect them to handle, especially with passive cooling. Enjoy your new MacBook!

 

[Wingnuts]

A couple of screenshots of the Activity Monitor CPU and Memory tabs, sorted by size/%usage, would be helpful.

My VM/4k YouTube/ChatGPt/mail/browser etc. basically maximum use case for me. Machine seemed very responsive with no slow downs other than a periodic typing delay.

 

[Alameda]

It's yellow with just Safari/couple of electron apps open. Goes back to green after I close a few tabs.
Back to yellow of course with a VM. Even though I won't be using the VM very often I think it's best to upgrade to the 24GB?

The VM will work with 16 but you should basically shut down all software on the Mac side when you VM. If you were going to run the VM regularly, then you would want more memory, but 16 GB is still quite a lot of memory.

Dealing with limited memory and storage has been part of computing forever. There’s very little you cannot do with 16 GB but it takes no talent to open apps and browser tabs and VMs until you exhaust it.

 

[RamboCommando]

I think if you planning keep that laptop 4years or more take 24gb but if not then 16gb.
I have Macbook Pro M5 Pro with 24gb ram and its good for me at this moment but if i can change my coise i choose 48gb ram because im planning to use this 4-5 years.

 

[throAU]

The VM will work with 16 but you should basically shut down all software on the Mac side when you VM. If you were going to run the VM regularly, then you would want more memory, but 16 GB is still quite a lot of memory.

Dealing with limited memory and storage has been part of computing forever. There’s very little you cannot do with 16 GB but it takes no talent to open apps and browser tabs and VMs until you exhaust it.

This isn’t entirely true, i ran windows VMs for 3 years with 16 GB of RAM along with outlook, teams, a myriad of browser sessions, remote administration tools, etc.

16 GB is plenty cable of running a copy of Windows in the background.

 

[Alameda]

This isn’t entirely true, i ran windows VMs for 3 years with 16 GB of RAM along with outlook, teams, a myriad of browser sessions, remote administration tools, etc.

16 GB is plenty cable of running a copy of Windows in the background.

Memory requirements increase over time. MacOS uses more, Windows uses more, the browsers use more. He’s asking about doing this over the next four years, not the past three years.

Besides, I did not say it would not work. You quoted me selectively.