Another reason why society is stupid.....

[whooleytoo]

I don't think the world is becoming "dumber", it's just with the Internet and the news media, a story like this spreads around the world whereas previously it would just have been a local issue few people would know about.

For all we know, the truth of the story could be missing or twisted anyhow.

 

[pckilla]

This is one of the more idiotic things ive heard in awhile...someone should ask those parents and principal if we should change mt rushmore to having the people the presidents were running against then carved up there with them....

 

[LethalWolfe]

I don't think the world is becoming "dumber", it's just with the Internet and the news media, a story like this spreads around the world whereas previously it would just have been a local issue few people would know about.

I agree. I don't think we are becoming stupider, I think the existing stupidity is just becoming more obvious.


Lethal

 

[daxdagr8t]

My daughter is a high school senior - taking an AP US Govt class.

The students are not allowed to discuss the presidential campaign. The teacher has been told to not discuss the campaign and what it means to the US GOVERNMENT, until after the election.

Funny thing - they are allowed to discuss politics in her AP English class.

The freaking inmates are running the asylum.

I took AP US Govt in hs and we spend almost a month on political campaigns and most of us hoped that there was a major election back in 2002 to actually discuss what was happening.

 

[mintlivedotcom]

I just printed out copies of President Bush to put up in my classroom. None of them say "Vote Bush" or anything like that.

I also printed out a photo of Kerry in his Oompa Loompa suit next to Oompa Loompas from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.

Let's see what happens.

(by-the-way, I also think it's insane that some students refuse to stand for the pledge and insist on making such a big deal about having to stand up for it...boy, life is really tough, huh)

 

[OldManJimbo]

I took AP US Govt in hs and we spend almost a month on political campaigns and most of us hoped that there was a major election back in 2002 to actually discuss what was happening.

The students have been told they will be able to discuss the campaign in retrospect beginning the day after the elelction. I think the teacher and administrators are so afraid of being sued by some wacko from either side that they are taking an overly prudent approach. (This IS California we're talking about).

The same school recently had a male teacher convicted of having sex with a female student and have gone WAY overboard in enforcing the dress code - in the errant belief that attractive clothing was responsible for the pervert's actions.

 

[howard]

My daughter is a high school senior - taking an AP US Govt class.

The students are not allowed to discuss the presidential campaign. The teacher has been told to not discuss the campaign and what it means to the US GOVERNMENT, until after the election.

Funny thing - they are allowed to discuss politics in her AP English class.

The freaking inmates are running the asylum.

thats ridiculous!!!

they should promote debate and comments and criticism on the things going on in the world.

 

[Mord]

All I have to say is where is the picture of Al Gore....

yep, thing is he acctually got the most votes even when george made sure every black person with the same name as a convicted criminal could not vote.

the teacher getting fired is outrageous even if she dose support bush one should not stop her putting up a picture of the current president on a wall of presidents just because of the parents political views.

 

[Mr_Ed]

Ridiculous situation . . . Maybe some of those parents think Kerry is President

(by-the-way, I also think it's insane that some students refuse to stand for the pledge and insist on making such a big deal about having to stand up for it...boy, life is really tough, huh)

Most people "stand" as a sign or acknowledgement of "respect." Like in a standing ovation: "I can applaud just as well sitting down but I am standing to show I REALLY mean it" If a student truly does not believe in the pledge of allegiance as it is written, he/she should not have to stand while it is recited.

 

[G4scott]

If a student truly does not believe in the pledge of allegiance as it is written, he/she should not have to stand while it is recited.

What if the government doesn't believe it's their job to educate and protect that student? Do they have to care for him/her as they do for everyone else?

I think it's proper to give respect where respect is due, especially when it means standing to recite my country's pledge.

 

[5300cs]

...I think it's proper to give respect where respect is due, especially when it means standing to recite my country's pledge...

When Bush does something to actually earn my respect, I'll give it to him. Until then...

And firing the teacher was a pretty retarded thing to do. But that's the way schools work these days: the kids are always right no matter what they do.

 

[Mr_Ed]

What if the government doesn't believe it's their job to educate and protect that student? Do they have to care for him/her as they do for everyone else?

Not sure where you were going with this . . . Sounds like you are suggesting perhaps the government should look at a student as being "less worthy" of education and protection based solely on their belief (or lack thereof) in the pledge of allegiance. The courts obviously feel differently since they have ruled a student cannot be forced to participate in the recitation of the pledge of allegiance. If you would like to challenge that position in court, be my guest. It is your right.

I think it's proper to give respect where respect is due, especially when it means standing to recite my country's pledge.

"Where respect is due . . ." is clearly a matter of personal opinion. Suppose there was some organization or group which included as part of it's normal proceedings, the recital of a pledge or oath which expressed (for example) racist views. If they decided to assemble in a public place, and I happened to be in the vicinity, members of that organization might feel respect is due and I should stand during the recital of their pledge. No thanks. I'll just sit and read the paper, or eat my burrito, or do whatever the hell else I happen to be doing at the time.

The law of the land does not compel me to show respect for something I do not believe, nor does it compel me to restrain such displays of respect for things I do believe in. You and I and a student who chooses not to recite the pledge have the same rights and protections under the law, regardless of our personal opinions about it. I for one, choose to be proud to live in a place where that is the case, and I do not spend a whole lot of time thinking about whether someone else should or should not do as I do.

 

[gluemeat]

I am no Bush lover, far from it. But that truly is stupid.

 

[rendezvouscp]

The same school recently had a male teacher convicted of having sex with a female student and have gone WAY overboard in enforcing the dress code - in the errant belief that attractive clothing was responsible for the pervert's actions.

<ot>I probably sound like a stalker, but this has happened at my school about two years ago. Does your daughter happen to go to Long Beach Wilson?</ot>
–Chase

 

[kylos]

yep, thing is he acctually got the most votes even when george made sure every black person with the same name as a convicted criminal could not vote.

I'm going to ignore your ridiculous claims about gwb rigging the election and focus on the first part of your comment.

It's amazing that people think that getting a national majority of individual votes in this nation should make one president. The fact is, we do not live in a democracy, despite the national dillusion that such is the case. We live in a democratic republic that keeps trying to be a democracy. This provides a sort of checks and balances situation that attempts to prevent a select few from gaining too much power, and the overwhelming stupidity of the entire populace destroying itself. The founding fathers saw examples throughout history of both extremes and designed a system that would try to balance either extreme. The election of george bush is a prime example of the system working as it was designed, to ensure that one extreme did not overpower the other.

 

[emw]

But wait, there's more...

Always two sides to a story... I don't think we've heard the last of this one.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/wabc_100604_teacher.html

 

[emw]

It's amazing that people think that getting a national majority of individual votes in this nation should make one president.

You're right. You just have to get the right majority of popular votes. In all but two states, the winner of the majority of individual votes wins all of that states electoral votes. So, it is quite conceivable (and obviously has happened) that if you win a number of popular vote majorities in smaller states, you could win the electoral vote while not winning the overall popular vote.

But this is not a stretch for people to think popular votes win the presidency, but it does win it for individual states.

 

[saunders45]

Always two sides to a story... I don't think we've heard the last of this one.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/wabc_100604_teacher.html

different lady, different state, different story

 

[emw]

different lady, different state, different story

Huh?

From first link:

Shiba Pillai-Diaz, Teacher: "It happened on a small bulletin board near the American flag and also with a poster of the Declaration of Independence."

From second link:

They say language arts teacher Shiba Pillai-Diaz walked out of school after refusing to remove a picture of President Bush from a classroom bulletin board, and was never fired or even suspended.

Seems like the same to me. Also, second link is from a link from the first story...

 

[Bedawyn]

Most people "stand" as a sign or acknowledgement of "respect." Like in a standing ovation: "I can applaud just as well sitting down but I am standing to show I REALLY mean it" If a student truly does not believe in the pledge of allegiance as it is written, he/she should not have to stand while it is recited.

I use to feel that way, until one of my seventh-grade teachers quite sensibly (and without condemning me, which was surprising) pointed out that you don't have to respect the (mindless repetition of) the Pledge to respect other people's beliefs. I was quite happy with his compromise, which was that I didn't have to say the Pledge, but I would stand quietly while everyone else said it.

It's even more surprising to find that enough other students are declining now for it to even be an issue. When I was in school (fifteen years ago, mind), I was certainly the only one. But I'm a bit bewildered about what would have prompted the increasing numbers.

 

[Mr_Ed]

I use to feel that way, until one of my seventh-grade teachers quite sensibly (and without condemning me, which was surprising) pointed out that you don't have to respect the (mindless repetition of) the Pledge to respect other people's beliefs. I was quite happy with his compromise, which was that I didn't have to say the Pledge, but I would stand quietly while everyone else said it.

It's even more surprising to find that enough other students are declining now for it to even be an issue. When I was in school (fifteen years ago, mind), I was certainly the only one. But I'm a bit bewildered about what would have prompted the increasing numbers.

That teacher deserves kudos for the way he handled your objection to the ritual. He exposed you to a different way of looking at the situation and left it up to you to think it through, draw your own conclusions, and act upon them. This is different than the tone of the original post I was addressing. That poster said it was "insane" that some students refuse to stand for the pledge of allegiance. While this statement is as valid as any other opinion, it doesn't seem to leave any room for the possibility that the student(s) in question may have valid reasons of their own. In my mind at least, this is in stark contrast to the approach your teacher took.

As to why so many now refuse to take part in the recitation of the pledge, I don't think I have any better answer than you do. I do believe young people today are far more sophisticated and are exposed to a lot more "divergent" points of view than people of similar age decades ago. It is quite possible that for many, this particular ritual represents a "blind" acceptance of the values of previous generations and perhaps that is not good enough for many. As you pointed out, it often looks like "mindless" repetition.

For the record, I am like you in that I choose not to recite the pledge, but I will stand while others do. I wholeheartedly believe the words in the pledge with the exception of "under God" which I believe to be needlessly exclusionary. I'm one of those who would prefer the pledge in its pre-"McCarthy era" form.