iPhone 11 Antenna Gain

[robrobrobro]

Why is this thread called ‘antenna gain’? As opposed to ‘antenna loss’? Is it meant to be ‘antenna gate’?

The thread is called 'antenna gain' because that's the term for the power transmitted by an antenna.

Anyway, I'm not a very tech-y person, so I'm unable to give too detailed of an analysis. But after finding my Qualcomm 8 very disappointing in weak signal areas, I bit the bullet and purchased an 11. I prefer the size and form factor of the 8, so I was reluctant to do this.

First impressions are very positive. I work in several different buildings on a weekly basis. So far, my 11 can load web pages in the exact places where my 8 could not. That's about the extent of which I'm able to report currently, but at least it's something. Factoring in a noticeably more vibrant screen and overall speediness of the device, I'm a happy 11 buyer so far.

I’m going to buy my next phone based solely on an antenna gain chart posted in a forum.....

Why yes that actually was a huge factor in how I chose my phone!

 

[BiggAW]

You are wasting your time. The 11 Pro and Pro Max have a bad antenna design, just like the XS and Xs Max from last year. Same design, same poor reception. A new phone won't help. Best bet is go to an 11 or Xr. They have a better antenna design. Has nothing to do with the modems. People need to understand that.

The entire X/11 series has a bad antenna design. However, modems ALSO matter. The Qualcomm X was better than the Intel X, but not as good as the Qualcomm 8/8+.
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Maybe the 11/Pro loses the ability to be usable at a signal strength of -122dBm vs. -124dBm where the very best phones become unusable. I'm just making these figures up to illustrate a point - I don't know the exact dBm levels where phones become unusable. Just making the point that if I'm in an area with a signal better than -122dBm 99.9% of the time, then it personally doesn't benefit me if there are phones that can perform slightly better in super fringe areas that I'm almost never in.

The thing is, the signal level is relative to the device. For example, each generation of Galaxy S/Note seems to gain 1-2dBm over the previous. I don't know how much longer they can go until they hit the limits of physics, but between the modems and the antennas, they keep getting better. The S7 was good in it's day, but the S9/Note 9 series gets 3dBm better signal sitting side by side on the same band, and the S10/Note 10 gets slightly better than that. That's a very significant difference in a weak signal area.

 

[Khedron]

I’m going to buy my next phone based solely on an antenna gain chart posted in a forum.....

So you're going to base your decision on facts rather than logos. Good.

 

[Azathoth123]

So you're going to base your decision on facts rather than logos. Good.

Many facts not just one, and many people aren’t having any issues (including me) so maybe the antenna ‘problem’ is not representative of many people’s real-life experience. The described ‘issues’ are just not a problem for me or any of the people that I know with iPhones, they’re all happy with them.

Doesn’t look like you‘re changing many minds though.

Record 83% of Surveyed U.S. Teens Own an iPhone

iPhone continues to be the most popular smartphone among American teenagers based on a recent survey. Shutterstock A record 83 percent of U.S. teens...

www.macrumors.com

And the Watch is gaining fast. Google and Samsung aren’t going to catch up with antennas.

 

[Kung]

I’m going to buy my next phone based solely on an antenna gain chart posted in a forum.....

I mean, I'm sure you're joking, but that's a huge part of the reason I chose to

- trade in my XS in order to
- purchase an iPhone 11.

I realize the accounts I've read are anecdotal, but I've read a TON of reports complaining about XS signal strength, and conversely, a ton of reports from people happy to report their 11 worked in places their XS would not.

So I bought an 11...and my experience has been commensurate with the vast majority of reports I've read. Whereas my XS struggled to get one bar (WiFi or cellular) anywhere in my house previously, it now easily maintains 2-3 bars cellular, and moderate WiFi signal. XS usually had -120dB; 11 has -105dB or so, which is vastly better.

And yes, I recognize there are also tons of reports of those who are just fine with the performance of their phones. That doesn't invalidate the fact that more than a few are having issues with their phones. I suspect the issue is both the XS and its performance when it comes to obtaining/maintaining connection in the middle of nowhere, as well as the reception of a phone in said location in the middle of nowhere. All I know is that the 11 is far better at gaining/holding onto a signal than my XS was. *shrug*

 

[Azathoth123]

I mean, I'm sure you're joking, but that's a huge part of the reason I chose to

- trade in my XS in order to
- purchase an iPhone 11.

I realize the accounts I've read are anecdotal, but I've read a TON of reports complaining about XS signal strength, and conversely, a ton of reports from people happy to report their 11 worked in places their XS would not.

So I bought an 11...and my experience has been commensurate with the vast majority of reports I've read. Whereas my XS struggled to get one bar (WiFi or cellular) anywhere in my house previously, it now easily maintains 2-3 bars cellular, and moderate WiFi signal. XS usually had -120dB; 11 has -105dB or so, which is vastly better.

And yes, I recognize there are also tons of reports of those who are just fine with the performance of their phones. That doesn't invalidate the fact that more than a few are having issues with their phones. I suspect the issue is both the XS and its performance when it comes to obtaining/maintaining connection in the middle of nowhere, as well as the reception of a phone in said location in the middle of nowhere. All I know is that the 11 is far better at gaining/holding onto a signal than my XS was. *shrug*

I understand and agree with your reasoning sir.

When a wide range of user experience varies so much, and a 2x2 MIMO antenna performs better than a 4x4 MIMO antenna, that tells me as an engineer there’s something else going on that I don’t believe we understand. I’m fine with that, there are a lot of things we don’t fully understand especially when highly technical factors are involved. But this is exactly why I made my humorous post above, I’m not going to base a decision to buy a phone on a single factor that I do not fully understand and that as you noted, user experience varies to the point that there is no real community consensus.

 

[Kung]

When a wide range of user experience varies so much, and a 2x2 MIMO antenna performs better than a 4x4 MIMO antenna, that tells me as an engineer there’s something else going on that I don’t believe we understand. I’m fine with that, there are a lot of things we don’t fully understand especially when highly technical factors are involved. But this is exactly why I made my humorous post above, I’m not going to base a decision to buy a phone on a single factor that I do not fully understand and that as you noted, user experience varies to the point that there is no real community consensus.

Now that I'll agree with 100%. While I'm no engineer, I do have an electronics/IT background. To me (and correct me if I'm wrong), I'll admit that I tend to believe that XS antenna design, and resulting (-) antenna gain, does play some part...but I don't think that's all of it, otherwise XS performance would comparatively be worse anywhere/anytime it was compared to the 11.

If I had to make a guess, I'd say that it's a factor of several different issues:

- XS negative antenna gain due to design (to some degree)
- AT&T coverage vs. that of other cell providers (at least, where I live)
- other environmental factors (e.g., house wall thickness/material)

And as you've likely figured out, all of the above played a part in my decision to switch to the 11, not just what I/many perceive to be XS shortcomings. (Plus I ordered my wife an 11, and conducted tests on it prior to buying mine.)

 

[BiggAW]

But this is exactly why I made my humorous post above, I’m not going to base a decision to buy a phone on a single factor that I do not fully understand and that as you noted, user experience varies to the point that there is no real community consensus.

There hasn't been any objective testing of the 11 series yet, but there was objective testing back on the Xr/Xs compared to Qualcomm-based Android devices.

The LG V40 Has the Best Cellular Reception of Any Phone

Exclusive: We tested over half a dozen of this year's flagship phones and found that the LG V40 is the best at maintaining a connection.

www.pcmag.com

I've also done side by side comparisons in the AT&T store comparing the Galaxy/Note 7/9/10 series devices to each other, and the improvements have been slight generation to generation, but have added up. I'm quite happy with my Note 9, as it is an excellent RF performer.

 

[Azathoth123]

There hasn't been any objective testing of the 11 series yet, but there was objective testing back on the Xr/Xs compared to Qualcomm-based Android devices.

The LG V40 Has the Best Cellular Reception of Any Phone

Exclusive: We tested over half a dozen of this year's flagship phones and found that the LG V40 is the best at maintaining a connection.

www.pcmag.com

I've also done side by side comparisons in the AT&T store comparing the Galaxy/Note 7/9/10 series devices to each other, and the improvements have been slight generation to generation, but have added up. I'm quite happy with my Note 9, as it is an excellent RF performer.

Agree that such ‘consumer’ tests have been done, but I am skeptical of tests with closely grouped results and no mention of testing error.

i don’t trust the results when there’s no mention of error - no error bars - and the data is quite closely grouped as the linked article noted, so there’s not a lot of difference. If the graph showed error bars, the results could be indistinguishable, we just don’t know.

 

[BiggAW]

Agree that such ‘consumer’ tests have been done, but I am skeptical of tests with closely grouped results and no mention of testing error.

i don’t trust the results when there’s no mention of error - no error bars - and the data is quite closely grouped as the linked article noted, so there’s not a lot of difference. If the graph showed error bars, the results could be indistinguishable, we just don’t know.

You're clearly trying to nitpick and find something wrong with that article, since those are the results of their tests. dBm is measured in a single number. That's the best data we have right now. However, I wish more testing would be done to get multiple data points, more devices, as well as tests on B12/13, since those are what determine performance on the cell edge where B2/4 have dropped off.

 

[Azathoth123]

You're clearly trying to nitpick and find something wrong with that article, since those are the results of their tests. dBm is measured in a single number. That's the best data we have right now. However, I wish more testing would be done to get multiple data points, more devices, as well as tests on B12/13, since those are what determine performance on the cell edge where B2/4 have dropped off.

Error is not nitpicking, there are no ‘single numbers’ where measurement is concerned. There are no measurements without error, whether it is significant or not is unknown unless the authors tell us. All of those measurements in the cited article could be indistinguishable from each other if the error is large enough. The point is that we don’t know.

 

[jkozlow3]

Error is not nitpicking, there are no ‘single numbers’ where measurement is concerned. There are no measurements without error, whether it is significant or not is unknown unless the authors tell us. All of those measurements in the cited article could be indistinguishable from each other if the error is large enough. The point is that we don’t know.

Agreed. That PCMag test was pretty far from scientific. It was about as comprehensive and scientific as someone saying they ran 2 speed tests with 2 different phones next to each other and phone A got better download speeds, so phone A = faster, end of story.

 

[BiggAW]

Error is not nitpicking, there are no ‘single numbers’ where measurement is concerned. There are no measurements without error, whether it is significant or not is unknown unless the authors tell us. All of those measurements in the cited article could be indistinguishable from each other if the error is large enough. The point is that we don’t know.

That's not how dBm is reported. It is reported by the device as a single number. Obviously there are a lot of variables that go into that, but that is how dBm is reported, like it or not.

Agreed. That PCMag test was pretty far from scientific. It was about as comprehensive and scientific as someone saying they ran 2 speed tests with 2 different phones next to each other and phone A got better download speeds, so phone A = faster, end of story.

It's much more scientific running Speed Tests. That's a ridiculous comparison. Could more testing be done? Sure. But that's the best testing we have for those devices, and it is absolutely useful data. The biggest thing that is not reported there is B12/13/14/71 performance, which is far more important for range than B4.

 

[Stridr69]

If you really want good reception, get an Android phone. That's one of the main drivers as to why I've got a Note 9 and not an iPhone. The Qualcomm X20 radio in that thing is beyond tenacious. The nice part is I can still do iOS things (a bit of reading and Facetime) on my iPad. If you absolutely must have an iPhone, get an 8+ Qualcomm, but then again you lose 4x4 MIMO, and if you're on T, B14. And forget about TMUS since there's no B71.



Which is why it should be an option, not forced to be open or forced to be closed. Some people either don't have a cap, or, in most cases, live in exurban areas with bigger houses where no one else could connect without trespassing anyway. Those things just don't have a lot of range.



But HeadphoneAddict has T, so what VZ wants is irrelevant.

Nice take! That's why I use a Galaxy S9 along with my XS Max. Better reception on the S9(same radio as the note 9). With the 55+ plan on T-Mobile i tether to my Mini5 as it's cellular radio is crummy at times too.
Hopefully nest years iphone's have Qualcomm radios that do the job.
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[The Oak]

Nope i had a Xr for 8 months getting better reception with my 11 pro.



I am on Telstra North Coast NSW, and getting better reception with my 11 pro than the Xr i had, better than the SE i used for 2 weeks after i sold my Xr too.
I travel through rural areas too.

How are you defining reception?

Not exactly true. The 11 is a 2x2 mimo and the Pros are 4x4 mimo.

This above ^^^

If you are defining your reception by download speed, it could be your Pro is using more bands and thus giving you a higher download rate and hence perceived better reception.

 

[vinegarshots]

I mean, I'm sure you're joking, but that's a huge part of the reason I chose to

- trade in my XS in order to
- purchase an iPhone 11.

I realize the accounts I've read are anecdotal, but I've read a TON of reports complaining about XS signal strength, and conversely, a ton of reports from people happy to report their 11 worked in places their XS would not.

So I bought an 11...and my experience has been commensurate with the vast majority of reports I've read. Whereas my XS struggled to get one bar (WiFi or cellular) anywhere in my house previously, it now easily maintains 2-3 bars cellular, and moderate WiFi signal. XS usually had -120dB; 11 has -105dB or so, which is vastly better.

And yes, I recognize there are also tons of reports of those who are just fine with the performance of their phones. That doesn't invalidate the fact that more than a few are having issues with their phones. I suspect the issue is both the XS and its performance when it comes to obtaining/maintaining connection in the middle of nowhere, as well as the reception of a phone in said location in the middle of nowhere. All I know is that the 11 is far better at gaining/holding onto a signal than my XS was. *shrug*

I had a launch XS Max and was active in last year's reception thread. That phone didn't give me any noticeable reception issues (strong signal areas, low signal areas, etc), and performed similarly to my 7+.

I only had 64gb model, so I "downgraded" to a 256GB iPhone 11 for $250 with trade-in.

No noticeable difference in reception in all of my regular locations. In my office space at the very outskirts of the service area, I still get the same number of bars and crap download speeds. In fact, I may have had slightly faster download speeds on average with the Max, probably because of the 4x4 MIMO. 🙃

EDIT: Also, one thing that no one seems to mention much:

Brittle Antennas

People's issues could have also stemmed from antenna materials that gave a low yield rate.

 

[bobsamm]

How are you defining reception?

Calls, streaming while travelling in car, wifi strength. In Australia the small 8 has a blue tick from our biggest telco which means better reception in rural areas, last iPhone that got it was 6s, i am not seeing any diff between it and the 11 pro for now anyway.

 

[Velin]

What is the consensus thus far? Is the 11 Pro Max getting good reception, or is it a dog?

 

[jkozlow3]

What is the consensus thus far? Is the 11 Pro Max getting good reception, or is it a dog?

You could just spend 10 minutes reading this thread and have all the information you need.

But *most* people seem happy with the 11 Pro's reception. Several have experienced better performance vs. previous iPhone models.

 

[BiggAW]

What is the consensus thus far? Is the 11 Pro Max getting good reception, or is it a dog?

Seems to be the best Intel iPhone yet, hard to say versus a Qualcomm iPhone, not as good as a Qualcomm Android. But it's really hard to tell. It could vary by band, as well as re-acquisition vs. holding a weak signal that's already acquired.

 

[Beelzbub]

What is the consensus thus far? Is the 11 Pro Max getting good reception, or is it a dog?

I am sure the 11 Pro/Max is a great phone, I liked the size of the 11 Pro when I looked at the display model and I probably would have got an 11 Pro had my local AT&T store had any in stock when my 8 died. They told me they received a small quantity of the 11 Pro's and sold out very very quickly when they came in and they were not sure when they would get anymore in stock. So I inquired about the 11, they had two in stock, so I got one of those. Since I am on a business plan I was told I have 30 days to take it back/exchange it. I thought about it next week when I am out in New York and see if they have any of the Pro models at one of the AT&T stores there, but I don't think I will. As much as I liked the smaller 11 Pro form factor, this 11 I have has grown on me and I really like this phone. I am not a big picture taking person, so I don't really think I am missing out on much. I know the battery is better, but I am doing just fine on this 11 since getting it, I can go 2 days easily on the battery and I call, text and email a lot, even VPN into the office with it and used Remote Desktop a time or two to check on something. And I have not had one issue with reception. Back to your original question, my advice would be try out the Pro if you can, you do have a time frame to return it if it is not working out for you.

 

[vinegarshots]

I am not a big picture taking person, so I don't really think I am missing out on much.

The only thing you’re missing is one extra telephoto lens, everything else is identical (and honestly, I find the ultra wide that’s in both phones to more valuable than the telephoto)

 

[Packers1958]

What is the consensus thus far? Is the 11 Pro Max getting good reception, or is it a dog?

IMO, there is no difference. the 11 Pro versions are using the same antenna design as the Xs versions from last year. Has nothing to do with the modem. The 11, like the Xr of last year use the intel modems too, but have different antenna design compared to the Xs and Pro models, and thus have better reception. I have not noticed any improvement between the 11 Pro and my previous Xs Max when it comes to fringe areas. They both are bad.

 

[UnrealWhale]

spoke to Tmobile today about the Iphone 11 poor reception compared to my 7+.

the rep tells me that everyone in my area with a new phone has reported a problem. seriously, apple is ****ing crazy putting in inferior antennas in these phones.

i can't even get calls inside stores now

 

[vinegarshots]

spoke to Tmobile today about the Iphone 11 poor reception compared to my 7+.

the rep tells me that everyone in my area with a new phone has reported a problem. seriously, apple is ****ing crazy putting in inferior antennas in these phones.

i can't even get calls inside stores now

Sounds like a T-Mobile problem to me 😂