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It always amazes me when people who don't know what they are talking about chime in on a thread.
And your background is?
I work in the financial services industry. I look at things like annual reports everyday.
Look at all the wireless telecom reports and you will see they are bleeding cash. Yes, their profits are up, but those profits are spent on R&D and new build outs.
The AT&T Mobility unit of AT&T is still at a cash shortfall for their backhaul upgrades and their new LTE network.
This is why they are focusing on buying T-Mobile. It will be cheaper to purchase them for their backhaul and infrastructure assets than it would be for them to build it out from scratch.
Buying T-Mobile will save them billions and they will actually make money selling off the redundant equipment. The FCC will make them sell it off anyway if the deal goes through.

No carrier has enough influence the market for consumers, eh? Lol. What country or planet do you live on?
As U.S. anti-trust law defines it, no, no U.S. carrier meets that criteria.
Your perception and reality are obviously not in sync.
 
It's like...

Broadband Internet,

In the sky,

Out of thin air...

Anywhere you go....

And you expect to get it for mere pocket change...
 
Some examples:
Cricket and Amp'd use Verizon's network.


Well, Amp'd is long gone, having declared bankruptcy years ago.

Cricket however, is not an MVNO. They have their own wireless network (through parent company LEAP wireless). Like Sprint though, they use Verizon for roaming in the places their network doesn't reach.

Leap's network has a roughly comparable footprint to Sprint, maybe a bit smaller.
 
Well, Amp'd is long gone, having declared bankruptcy years ago.

Cricket however, is not an MVNO. They have their own wireless network (through parent company LEAP wireless). Like Sprint though, they use Verizon for roaming in the places their network doesn't reach.

Leap's network has a roughly comparable footprint to Sprint, maybe a bit smaller.
I stand corrected.
Leap does use a lot of Verizon's towers for roaming/partner coverage.
They offer nationwide coverage, but only exist in 10 markets with their own hardware (according to Leap's website). They signed a 35 state roaming agreement with Verizon in 2010 that allowed them to "go nation wide" with a virtual network footprint.
So no, not an MVNO, but they would be struggling if it weren't for Verizon's network.
 
I would drop my data plan in a heartbeat if I could. There is WiFi everywhere I use my iphone. Ironically, I would subscribe to the data plan for my iPad if I could get an unlimited plan for that.

I want an iPod touch that can access a data network but has no phone functions. iPad can do it, why not the iPod touch?

I get that in a heartbeat for daughter =)


Anyway, I think it's ridiculous that you can't pick and choose that features you want. If I want unlimited SMS, but no data or phone I should be able to get it. If want SMS and data, but no phone, I should be able to get it. Phone, but no data or SMS, I should be able to get it. Each services should a separate, with a discount if you get more then one.
 
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And your background is?
I don't work in the telecom industry anymore, but I used to train cell phone carriers how to use their backbone hardware.

A good friend of mine is still in the industry, running his own company that contracts (and takes sub contracts) from the big 3 (Verizon likes to keep stuff in house when they can). For cell site service & upgrades.

So now that we've established that I do know what I am talking about...
I work in the financial services industry. I look at things like annual reports everyday.
Look at all the wireless telecom reports and you will see they are bleeding cash. Yes, their profits are up, but those profits are spent on R&D and new build outs.
Lol. You push pencils for a living. You've never worked in the industry, but I will hear you out anyway. Sometimes it is good to get a different perspective on things.

The AT&T Mobility unit of AT&T is still at a cash shortfall for their backhaul upgrades and their new LTE network.
This is why they are focusing on buying T-Mobile. It will be cheaper to purchase them for their backhaul and infrastructure assets than it would be for them to build it out from scratch.
Buying T-Mobile will save them billions and they will actually make money selling off the redundant equipment. The FCC will make them sell it off anyway if the deal goes through.
If that is your brilliant analysis, then I wouldn't bet on you moving up from your current position anytime soon.

This topic is rich enough to write many articles on but let these points suffice:
1. AT&T is doing pretty well (url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T"]check for yourself[/url]. 7th largest company in the US. There are a lot of very large banks, oil companies, and corporate conglomerates that would kill to have their assets, revenue and operating income. They have 96 million customers... most of whom give them at least $50 a month. they are larger than Lehman Brothers, Citibank, Goldman Sachs and all of these other P.O.S. too-big-to-fail companies..... and AT&T is in 2nd place (very close to 1st) among 4 cellular providers. Sprint is less than 1/3 their size.

2. The T-mobile acquisition is about bandwidth leases. The airwaves are a limited resource that our government rents out to private companies. The more of these frequencies and bandwidth that you have under your control, the less there is for other companies to enter your market to compete with you. AT&T doesn't give a rat's butt about T-mobile subscribers. T-mobile and Sprint together would still only have about half as many subscribers as AT&T. What T-mobile does have are leases on 2100 and 1700 bands that no other national provider can use.

Who was the first national provider to introduce tiered data ? Verizon and AT&T introduced limited data within 3 months of one another. AT&T actually RAISED the non-contract price on the iPhone to match Verizon's... and lets not forget that tethering services 'magically' came to all 4 networks within one year of each other.

AT&T is a market and industry leader. Pretty much any move made by Verizon or AT&T is parroted by the other 4 national providers. Regional providers like Metro or Boost, etc are limited because the companies who aren't outright owned by Verizon/AT&T are limited what they can offer because they have to rent data and voice services on towers from the the big 4.

Trust me. My friend who runs the telecom company has a very short list of companies to choose from when he goes out to find projects. He is either working for Clear/Sprint, T-Mobile, or AT&T or he is subcontracted to a company working for one of them.

As U.S. anti-trust law defines it, no, no U.S. carrier meets that criteria.
Your perception and reality are obviously not in sync.

Lol, sounds like someone doesn't know their history. Verizon and AT&T are the last scions of Ma Bell. Shouldn't you already know that as a financial expert?
 
I don't work in the telecom industry anymore, but I used to train cell phone carriers how to use their backbone hardware.

A good friend of mine is still in the industry, running his own company that contracts (and takes sub contracts) from the big 3 (Verizon likes to keep stuff in house when they can). For cell site service & upgrades.

So now that we've established that I do know what I am talking about...
So you're a network tech... :rolleyes:

Lol. You push pencils for a living. You've never worked in the industry, but I will hear you out anyway. Sometimes it is good to get a different perspective on things.


If that is your brilliant analysis, then I wouldn't bet on you moving up from your current position anytime soon.
Pencil pusher... no.
Programmer who writes a lot of the back analysis engines that process the financial data.
You have to know what the data means before you can write code to process it.

This topic is rich enough to write many articles on but let these points suffice:
1. AT&T is doing pretty well (url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T"]check for yourself[/url]. 7th largest company in the US. There are a lot of very large banks, oil companies, and corporate conglomerates that would kill to have their assets, revenue and operating income. They have 96 million customers... most of whom give them at least $50 a month. they are larger than Lehman Brothers, Citibank, Goldman Sachs and all of these other P.O.S. too-big-to-fail companies..... and AT&T is in 2nd place (very close to 1st) among 4 cellular providers. Sprint is less than 1/3 their size.
I recall of few of those now defunct companies had great assets and revenue too.

Again, learn how to read an annual report, maybe even a 10k filing or two.
Their primary assets are tied to an aging network that eats money.
And a lot of those 96 million customers are not paying them $50 or more per month.
They wrap pre-paid and resellers into that total number.
68 million are post paid, 7 million pre-paid, 9 million are device only and 11 million are resellers.

Their projected net profit for 2011 is not sufficient to meet their expenses for 2012 when you factor in their backhaul upgrade costs and the upcoming LTE deployment.

In short... it looks great on paper but the reality is a bitch.
Also remember this... AT&T and AT&T Mobility are two separate business units whos money shall never co-mingle.

2. The T-mobile acquisition is about bandwidth leases. The airwaves are a limited resource that our government rents out to private companies. The more of these frequencies and bandwidth that you have under your control, the less there is for other companies to enter your market to compete with you. AT&T doesn't give a rat's butt about T-mobile subscribers. T-mobile and Sprint together would still only have about half as many subscribers as AT&T. What T-mobile does have are leases on 2100 and 1700 bands that no other national provider can use.
The 1700 AWS band may very well end up on the auction block or the dumpster.
I doubt AT&T will hang onto it for very long once they transition customers off of AWS handsets.
AT&T wants T-Mo's 700Mhz spectrum and their backhaul network.
AT&T NEEDS it for their LTE roll out.

Trust me. My friend who runs the telecom company has a very short list of companies to choose from when he goes out to find projects. He is either working for Clear/Sprint, T-Mobile, or AT&T or he is subcontracted to a company working for one of them.
I'm sure he does. Major networks are not cheap to build.
Very few companies can afford to do it.

Lol, sounds like someone doesn't know their history. Verizon and AT&T are the last scions of Ma Bell. Shouldn't you already know that as a financial expert?
The AT&T of today is in name only.
Not even the same company.
 
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So you're a network tech... :rolleyes:
Pencil pusher... no.
Programmer who writes a lot of the back analysis engines that process the financial data.
You have to know what the data means before you can write code to process it.
WAS a network tech and am now a (chemical) engineer in a completely different industry. My colleague came up the way many mid-to-upper-level techs managers in the industry did... Sat-Com background in the military.

I recall of few of those now defunct companies had great assets and revenue too.
And none of the ones that failed had anywhere *near* AT&T's cash flow during their failure. You can try to twist it any way you want, but AT&T is very, very, very far from hurting... even with their massive capital investment costs and debt. There are few companies in the world that have 96 million individual subscribers.
[/quote]

Again, learn how to read an annual report, maybe even a 10k filing or two.
Their primary assets are tied to an aging network that eats money.
And a lot of those 96 million customers are not paying them $50 or more per month.
... and a lot of them are paying twice that. Their annual revenue is on the wiki page I linked. I forget how many *billion* dollars it was... are you really sure you want to keep arguing that poor AT&T is in the poor house?

Their projected net profit for 2011 is not sufficient to meet their expenses for 2012 when you factor in their backhaul upgrade costs and the upcoming LTE deployment. In short... it looks great on paper but the reality is a bitch.
Also remember this... AT&T and AT&T Mobility are two separate business units whos money shall never co-mingle.
Lol. Yes... I'm sure they will be laying people off in droves very soon and the CEO will have to start eating Chef boyardee and PB&J for lunch. Suffice it to say, I would absolutely LOVE to have AT&T's financial woes...(and so would a lot of Fortune 100 companies)

The 1700 AWS band may very well end up on the auction block or the dumpster.
I doubt AT&T will hang onto it for very long once they transition customers off of AWS handsets.
This statement is a good evidence that you have little idea of what you're talking about. If you knew how long it took for 1700mHz spectrum to be vacated, then you might have second thoughts about it ending up in a dumpster. Even if the DOJ/FCC lets the merger go through and lets AT&T keep that spectrum (which I hope does not happen), then there is no way that they will willingly let it go. That spectrum by itself is a future-proof competitive advantage over Verizon, Sprint, or any other johnny-come-lately that grabs market share. Even if they don't want to use it themselves, they could rake in quite a bit of money renting it out.

Smart money says that they will package it as a premium, less crowded, faster running service. There is a reason that my t-mobile phone can still make phone calls at a concert/football game while AT&T customers can't (even the ones on EDGE). SIR (its an acronym, look it up). Being on a different frequency (like 1700) solves that problem.

AT&T wants T-Mo's 700Mhz spectrum and their backhaul network.
AT&T NEEDS it for their LTE roll out.
I'm sure he does. Major networks are not cheap to build.
Very few companies can afford to do it.
Actually, they don't need it. LTE is UMTS and can co-exist with 3G, but AT&T has something else in mind because keeping the same number of people they currently have crammed on the same frequencies will still engender the same SIR problems they currently have with their network and all the UE on it.

The AT&T of today is in name only.
Not even the same company.
Lol. Sure. If you say so
 
I guess I pwned him too hard. His feelings or pride must be too hurt to respond on the thread anymore.

Truth hurts, yah?
 
That's ludicrous, an iPhone or other phone needs a data plan. Don't want a data plan don't buy an iPhone.
ever heard of a mobile hotspot? so i should pay $30 for data that ONLY goes to my iphone, then pay $25 for data that ONLY goes to my iPad. They are double dipping and they know it. I have a 4g LTE verizon hotspot that i use with multiple devices. I can't get data off of my iPhone bc AT&T will not let me use the phone on their network unless i have a data plan. Only way around it is going gophone.
 
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