Antitrust Lawsuit Threatens Apple's Lucrative Deal with Google

[turbineseaplane]

just prompt the user.... 99% will choose google anyways

The 99% is probably not right

How do we know?
The mere fact they won't present the choice

Personally, I'd love to have a native Kagi integration, as that's what I use

 

[I7guy]

Apple: We need our monopoly to make big bucks.

Google: We need Apple’s monopoly to make big buck

Google: we’re the best and we’ll pay to show it to you

Apple: you’re the best and we’ll take your money as a gift

 

[I7guy]

The 99% is probably not right

How do we know?
The mere fact they won't present the choice

Personally, I'd love to have a native Kagi integration, as that's what I use

Google has 96%(iirc) of the search market. The people who choose a default don’t think the people who don’t are capable of it.

 

[I7guy]

At any rate; grab the popcorn and watch the movie unfold.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Apple: We need our monopoly to make big bucks.

100% of the companies making products today need a monopoly on the products they make to make big bucks. Apple’s no different. 🙂

 

[redheeler]

Honestly, Google has the best search engine hands down. I tried using Duck Duck Go for years for privacy reasons. I would fall back to Google.com when Duck Duck Go (Bing) would fail to produce good results. Eventually i just got tired of so frequently having to use Google.com instead of the Safari address bar for searching and switched back.

Competition is supposed to produce better products but somehow Google has managed to maintain the best search engine while holding a monopoly. I don’t see how giving lazy competitors like Bing a crutch is going to improve competition. Why would Microsoft invest more in Bing if they get a revenue increase by virtue of a ruling against Google?

Your experience doesn’t match mine, Duck Duck Go has been fine for most searches and this is one of the first settings I change in a new browser.

 

[azentropy]

Here on this very forum we have people arguing that "it's too confusing" for users to be asked one time, at initial device setup, which browser they'd like as the default (in EU only so far)

So which is it?

Are people dumb as rocks and Apple has to decide everything for everyone?
or are they capable of making choices and handling a few preferences here and there?

I'm firmly in the camp of these things being little computers and people are more than capable of having some choices for how they would like to experience their devices.

I'd suggest it the first time you launch Safari or do a search, rather than at device set up.

 

[rp2011]

Yeah, this needs to stop. Google search is hot garbage, and they got there by not needing to care because they could pay off Apple and anyone else to stay complacent. This, plus already being a monopoly does not give anyone a chance to compete. Not even Microsoft with the deepest pockets and all the cloud compute at their fingertips could not make a dent, imagine anyone else. This setup is the very definition of anti-compete.

And likewise, Apple having so much easy money for doing nothing makes them more complacent. It needs to stop.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I'd suggest it the first time you launch Safari or do a search, rather than at device set up.

Lots of ways to do it for sure

I'm just not buying arguments that users are too "confused" to have some choices on browsers and search engines, among many other things, if they want it.

(not saying you said that at all)

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Are people dumb as rocks and Apple has to decide everything for everyone?
or are they capable of making choices and handling a few preferences here and there?

I’m assuming dumb as rocks, because, if they weren’t, they’d change the default search engine to whatever they like. It’s not like it requires either a PhD or a pop up screen saying “make a choice”.

Or, it could be, being aware that other options exist, folks have tried them and stick with the Google because that’s what they’re used to. And other folks don’t like that people stick with Google.

 

[scorpio vega]

Spotlight doesn’t use Google. It used to use Bing but around 2015 or so they switched to a custom solution called AppleBot to crawl websites and return results for Siri and Spotlight. To verify I’ve tried comparing the results returned from both Spotlight and Google, and they don’t always match up.

I stand corrected, thanks.
since my safari uses bing by default coupled with spotlight, this actually fixes a complaint I had

 

[Realityck]

I use Kagi.

I agree about DuckDuckGo. I want to love it, but its results from Bing are often useless to me. It's my second choice though on privacy grounds.

Brave Search is OK in a pinch.

Google is last resort for me.

The three best privacy search engines out there are two of what you mentioned. Kagi is a paid service.

DuckDuckGo launched in 2008 with a focus on user privacy. The company said it does not track user’s searches, and it aims to block trackers across the web through its app and browser extensions. Because it doesn’t track and store individual user data, DuckDuckGo said its search results are not personalized and therefore avoid the “filter bubble” that can occur when search engines limit search results to those they think the user would like to see.

Brave Search is another option for privacy-minded users. The search engine does not collect a user’s personal information or search history. Brave Search can be accessed on any web browser, but Brave differentiates itself from the competition with its companion browser that blocks trackers from collecting users’ data across the web. While other alternative search engines often borrow search capabilities from bigger players, Brave Search claims it uses an independent search index. Brave Search also offers an AI feature that searches the web to provide users with quick answers to their queries.

Startpage is another privacy-focused search engine that serves up search results from Google without storing users’ personal information, search data or IP addresses. As a result, users can search the web without worrying about price trackers, retargeted ads and third parties building personal data profiles. It goes a step further with its “anonymous view” feature, which allows users to visit websites anonymously, essentially acting like a VPN.

source

 

[SanderEvers]

I'd be cool if Apple made their own Search engine. But I absolutely 100% am sure that the EU would block that innovation as well.

 

[jimothyGator]

If they don’t care then there’s no injury and no problem.

Which is precisely why we need government to step in, so people know how aggrieved they are by the products they're happy with.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Who cares. This issue is about the default search engine, not default browser.

Did you read the article? It's about the default search engine IN SAFARI! If someone, like the person you rudely replied to, uses Chrome or Edge or any other browser, this is not an issue for them. That's the point of that persons response.

 

[scorpio vega]

Lots of ways to do it for sure

I'm just not buying arguments that users are too "confused" to have some choices on browsers and search engines, among many other things, if they want it.

(not saying you said that at all)

Except they are. I worked in mobile and tech with people for 7 years. Even I as a fairly knowledgeable person sometimes get overwhelmed with options and I actively follow tech.

It’s both why I laugh when android zealots try to say iOS is dumbed down or criticize apple for the “walled garden” and roll my eyes.

That’s the very reason many people prefer iOS. iOS is not dumbed down it’s just not overly complicated.

I remember a customer coming in confused because their galaxy had Samsung messages and gogolr
Messages. Chrome and Samsung browser. And they were confused as to why bookmarks or messages would show in one place but not the other or both.

Or having to explain what RCS is vs sms (notice how most apple users don’t differentiate iMessage vs texting because to us it is all texting but we differentiate based on the color so we know what KIND of texting it is). Go ask a random joe what RCS is and they likely won’t know.

Apples approach has always been better for consumers because it has created an entire ecosystem surrounding a device. Yes they are pushing you to use their services but on the flip side your phone works fine out the box.

Android setup is convuluted. God forbid you get a carrier Branded Device.

Now once you turn on the phone you have all these apps and stuff downloading and it’s a lot going on that yes the average joe can be overwhelmed by.

 

[jz0309]

whichever way you feel about this topic: Google search has a market share of 90+%

 

[jimothyGator]

Thanks to governments (US, California, and EU in particular), using the internet is getting more and more unpleasant. I'm sick of cookie preferences on every damn web site I visit. Now, they're going to want to bug me any time I get a new phone or upgrade the OS: What browser do you want? What search engine do you want? What email client do you want? What App Store do you want? Shut up and let me use my damn phone my way! I don't need you to protect me.

I'm happy with iOS as Apple designed it. Some people are happy with Android as Google designed it. We don't need you, dear government, to "protect" us and force choices upon us when we've already made choices. Stop thinking you know how to design an OS, search engine, and so on better than the companies that built them. Stop thinking you know what consumers want for themselves better than the consumers themselves.

In short, stop messing up the products and services we've been happily using for decades!

 

[H2SO4]

I remember a time when it felt like everything Google did was cool and exciting... but these days, they feel like someone trying way too hard to be one of the cool kids. 😬

Works for me.
Google translate, image search, maps. All way above the others.

 

[spazzcat]

The Government has the win their case first.

 

[scorpio vega]

Are people dumb as rocks and Apple has to decide everything for everyone?
or are they capable of making choices and handling a few preferences here and there?

They aren’t dumb. They simply are not informed.

For example:

A person who has their first iPhone or smartphone after years of using flip phones. They get a list of browsers

1. Safari
2. Edge
3. Chrome
4. Firefox
5. Brave

That’s a lot of options for ppl who don’t know that edge may be better if they use a lot of Microsoft products and services for school or work.

Or that chrome has terrible privacy or that brave is built around privacy. Or that Firefox on their windows desktop can connect to their Phone.

2. Now for music

1. Apple Music
2. Spotify
3. Pandora

They don’t know that Spotify offers a free plan but Apple Music has better music videos

3. Messaging

1. Messages
2. What’s app
3. Telegram

What’s WhatsApp? Can I use that to text my mom to pick me up at school at 5. Will I be able to video call my husband to show him the leak in my car?

It has nothing to do with apple holding your hand. If you’re that worried about apple controlling anything then get a lagdroid and stop trying to make iPhones act like an android.

Apple has always cultivated an experience and ecosystem that is about “it just works” with minimal effort.

When I worked for mobile carriers, I can give someone any iPhone and I almost never had anyone come back to ask questions or return them. It just worked.

I threw them on an android and they had so many questions before they left the store. Why is it doing that? What is this? I can’t figure out what that noise is. How to turn this off?

There is nothing wrong offering choice but not at the expense of over complicating the user experience.

 

[scorpio vega]

I remember a time when it felt like everything Google did was cool and exciting... but these days, they feel like someone trying way too hard to be one of the cool kids. 😬

Google was never cool and exciting so much as they were the underdog against Microsoft and because android fan boys were so anti-apple, android became the champion against iPhones since at the time most ppl couldn’t afford to buy them full price outside of att since iPhones were considered luxury items at the time.

Works for me.
Google translate, image search, maps. All way above the others.

Bing translate, bing image search, and apple maps are miles better or on par with tootle
For me.

 

[jimothyGator]

Except they are. I worked in mobile and tech with people for 7 years. Even I as a fairly knowledgeable person sometimes get overwhelmed with options and I actively follow tech.

It’s both why I laugh when android zealots try to say iOS is dumbed down or criticize apple for the “walled garden” and roll my eyes.

That’s the very reason many people prefer iOS. iOS is not dumbed down it’s just not overly complicated.

I remember a customer coming in confused because their galaxy had Samsung messages and gogolr
Messages. Chrome and Samsung browser. And they were confused as to why bookmarks or messages would show in one place but not the other or both.

Or having to explain what RCS is vs sms (notice how most apple users don’t differentiate iMessage vs texting because to us it is all texting but we differentiate based on the color so we know what KIND of texting it is). Go ask a random joe what RCS is and they likely won’t know.

Apples approach has always been better for consumers because it has created an entire ecosystem surrounding a device. Yes they are pushing you to use their services but on the flip side your phone works fine out the box.

Android setup is convuluted. God forbid you get a carrier Branded Device.

Now once you turn on the phone you have all these apps and stuff downloading and it’s a lot going on that yes the average joe can be overwhelmed by.

Precisely. People who care about the default search engine likely already know how to change it, and those that don't care probably don't want to be bugged.

I picture my mother, getting a new iPhone or upgrading to iOS 18 when it's out, and being forced to pick which browser and search engine she wants to use. She doesn't know or care, so these prompts are just going to annoy and confuse her (and result in a phone call to me…that is, until iOS is forced to ask which phone app you want to use!)

I'm on the opposite end of the tech savvy spectrum (I'm a software engineer), and I don't want to be bothered by this crap, either.

In fact, I would love to hear one person sincerely argue that they will benefit from these sort of forced choices. Not that you know someone who would benefit, or some abstract "some people don't know they can change their browser/search engine/etc, and that's why Apple and Google need to be required to present choices." I'll give half credit if you anyone, credibly, point so someone else who benefited from such a forced choice. "I had no idea I could run Brave; thank goodness my phone forced me to pick a browser!"

Politicians and especially regulators seem to think they're doing good with crap like this, but it's just annoying, unnecessary, and none of their damn business. Bunch of busy bodies who've never built anything themselves aside from bureaucracies and mountains of debt think they know better than companies with millions and billions of satisfied customers, and the customers themselves.

 

[Realityck]

The Government has the win their case first.

Yes the government has that big hurdle to overcome for starters, doesn't matter if you are an Apple OS, Windows, or Android user. Everyone has the capacity to use whatever search engine they prefer.

What can the government do, but mandate default search engine settings. It's not like they can delist/prevent a user from optionally using google search. Apple could set up a routine to randomly select a default search maybe?

Long ago I changed from google to DuckDuckGo Go. Both are my default for Safari/FireFox. Brave Browser is using Brave Search. Both meet my needs from a privacy perspective.

 

[scorpio vega]

whichever way you feel about this topic: Google search has a market share of 90+%

Microsoft also has had the highest market share the last thirty years on desktop….doesnt mean it is the best.

Popularity is not indicative of quality. Smoking meth is incredibly popular. Doesn’t mean it’s good.