Any downside using ODD port for boot?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by JesterJJZ, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. JesterJJZ macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    #1
    Just ordered an intel 80gig SSD for my first gen MP. Are there any downsides to putting it in my second optical bay to boot from? I'd rather use the regular HD bays for my other 3.5in drives. That and I won't need an Icydock for the SSD. And no I will not be using Windows, only OSX.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Cindori macrumors 68040

    Cindori

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Location:
    Sweden
  3. 666sheep macrumors 68040

    666sheep

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Location:
    Poland
    #3
    No probs with booting from ODD ports in 1st gen MP. My SSD boot drive is connected this way and is placed in 2nd optical bay. Use Scythe Bay Rafter to mount SSD and SATA cable with angle plugs to connect drive to lobo.
     
  4. abccba macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    #4
    x2 :) It just won't boot windows from an ODD drive, but OSX works fine...
     
  5. slughead macrumors 68040

    slughead

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    #5
    it boots (I'm booted off it now), just not into Windows. Supposedly it's a driver issue on the windows side
     
  6. JesterJJZ thread starter macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    #6
    Thanks guys. I have a 3.5in drive in my second bay currently. One of my other drives died so I'm gonna move the drive from my optical bay to one of the sleds. I just was curious if there would be any performance isssues. I don't want to get a SSD and then have it running slow because I hooked it up to a slow port or something.
     
  7. Guiyon macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Location:
    North Shore, MA
    #7
    It's a little more than that. When EFI loads the CSM (the BIOS compatibility module) Apple switches the SATA controller to compatibility mode instead of AHCI mode. This has a rather nasty side effect of disabling the two ODD ports. At the moment you need a patched bootloader to re-enable AHCI mode. IIRC, there are patches for the GRUB and Windows MBR bootloaders to poke the right bits.
     
  8. tomllama macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    Location:
    CA
    #9
    I run and boot to either 10.6.4 or Win7 x64 from an OCZ Agility 2 (240 GB) in my 2nd ODD bay using only the cables provided (MP4,1).

    I tried first to clone my XP instance from a Caviar black to the SSD but that was a waste of hours, so I simply installed from the Win7 x64 install disk and it runs fine (bootcamp 3.0 then updated to 3.1).
     
  9. 666sheep macrumors 68040

    666sheep

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Location:
    Poland
    #10
    None. My Intel G2 80 is reaching its max factory speed and sometimes even beyond.
     
  10. Roman23 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    #11
    Its a firmware issue.. and since I have been toying with this for 3 years now, I should be the one conducting this thread as the odd ports in the mac pros.. 1,1,2,1 and 3,1 only work on the mac side.. Yes, you can boot the snow leopard/leopard/tiger install dvd and anything else formatted on the mac side only.. Windows, linux, solaris, etc... won't won't boot off those ports at all. Apple really didn't intend for us to even use them, hense all the hush hush about them and no mention of them on the tech specs.

    If you want to use them with windows, u MUST use ahci.sh and mod the master boot record of bootcamp or whatever drive you have a non-mac os on. Only then will you be able to use the device, but you still won't be able to boot it due to the limitations of the EFI FIRMWARE..

    This is all confirmed as Nano and I tried this many times on my 3,1 mac pro - reason why I got rid of it and it was really the ONLY reason, as I don't like limitations.



    won't be able to boot from the optical drive or hard drive... the ahci drivers aren't loaded until the operating system loads up.. for instance, just because I used ahci.sh to mod the master boot record on my former 2008 mac pro, it didn't mean that I was then able to boot windows installer dvd, no.. what it meant was that once windows boots up I can then use my new devices attached to the odd ports..

    again, this is a firmware limitation.



     
  11. slughead macrumors 68040

    slughead

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    #12
    My bad, not a driver issue. I read the AHCI thread a few years ago and concluded it wasn't worth my time to even attempt to get it working in windows.

    Thanks for clearing up the details.
     
  12. Roman23 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    #13
    Hey, don't put it off as being..

    really difficult.. at first, I was like you saying, "Nah, I don't need that!" - i can just get an external optical drive, and boot usb the windows installer". - But, I decided one day to take the plunge into how it is done.. although I am proficient in Linux/freebsd, I am not that good at modifying grub bootloaders, but the windows hack sure was easy..

    All you have to do is once your windows 7/vista is installed, goto regedit. search for iastor5 and msahci - go to these and change the start values to 0's - this will tell windows to search for ahci upon next boot up. Once you are done with the changing of those entries to 0's.. Your next and final task is to boot back into osx.

    Here is the scary part.. you need to be careful that you don't mod the MBR to the wrong drive.. doing so can render your boot drive and or other drives unbootable or unstable.. The best way to do it I thought was to physically remove all drives except for the mac os x startup disk and bootcamp disk(if its on single drive all by itself).

    Then run disk utility and left click or right click on the hard drive, not the slice! - and it will say what disk is identified with bootcamp.. say disk1.. the slice would be disk1s0 or something like that..

    Once you have that.. run ahci.sh ./ahci.sh under root and it will automatically determine what drive is the windows drive - this should match to your prior to doing information on the bootcamp drive.. Then type Y for yes. It will then ask if you want to mod the mbr? type once more.. Yes and it will be done. You just loaded hex addresses of which will change the mbr to accept ahci.

    Lastly, boot back into windows - assuming all went well, you should get to the desktop and windows will immediately start installing its own ahci 1.0 driver which is nice, but intel's is much better.. You then need the intel storage matrix drivers and once those are installed, you should get the following:

    SATA AHCI controller ICHR??? something. Congrats! You now have ahci enabled on your 2009 mac pro, for 2008 - ESB is what is used. The only thing you still can't do is boot into windows under 2006-2008 mac pros, even though the ahci driver installed - again, this is a firmware issue and Apple can only provide the revision code so it will work - but knowing Apple, they won't do it.


     
  13. JesterJJZ thread starter macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    #14
    I'm also debating going with one ssd vs 2 in Raid0. Is there a noticeable difference? are 2 40GB Intel SSDs better than 1 80GB?
     
  14. nanofrog macrumors G4

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #15
    40GB version*
    • Sequential Read = 170MB/s
    • Sequential Write = 35MB/s

    80GB version*
    • Sequential Read = 250MB/s
    • Sequential Write = 70MB/s

    A pair of 40GB's in a stripe set would double it's performance for both figures. So it's faster at reads, the same for writes (compared to a single 80GB), for about the same $$$. ;)

    * Intel's stated figures, not from independent testing.
     
  15. JesterJJZ thread starter macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    #16
    Would the difference be noticeable?
     
  16. 666sheep macrumors 68040

    666sheep

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Location:
    Poland
    #17
    It shouldn't, if you'll use it as boot drive and apps only. Personally, i'd go for 1x 80GB instead 2x 40GB for that purpose.
     
  17. nanofrog macrumors G4

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #18
    Only if you're reading a really large file. For an OS/application disk, not as much as you'd think, as most of the capacity is a lot of small files (random access throughput).

    It's definitely an improvement over mechanical though, and is becoming more attractive as the prices continue to fall.
     
  18. JesterJJZ thread starter macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    #19
    Ah well...ordered a 2nd 80gig :D My current apps take up about 60gigs with all their content. I just got CS5 master collection. So a single 80gig might be pushing it if new Final Cut Studio comes along with a bunch of new stuff.

    My question is should I move my home directory? I know people do it to save space but I should have some headroom now. I don't really keep much in my user directory. Just downloads which I prune often and my mail gets saved in there, and a couple desktop items here and there.
     
  19. Roman23 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    #20
    As I explained to you in the email..

    Since you have no need for windows or any other non-mac os related system, then you don't need to get ahci drivers, as OS X already has them... feel free to hook up two blu-ray players or any sata device to those ports, as the whole entire mac side will recognize and use them..



     
  20. JesterJJZ thread starter macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    #21
    Do I need to muck with firmware or anything on my new intel X25-M drives?
     
  21. JesterJJZ thread starter macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    #22
    Also reasing about stripe sizes. Many people are suggesting 128k while a couple are bent on something lower like 4, 8 or 16k. What's the right answer?

    And should I stripe with disk utility or softraid? No room for a raid card.

    Thanks!
     
  22. nanofrog macrumors G4

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #23
    I'm not sure, but I'd think at this point, the firmware on the drives are fine with OS X these days (been awhile IIRC since any issues).

    That said, it might not be a bad idea to see if there's a newer firmware revision. If so, research it to see if it's applicable to you, and go from there.

    128K last I knew was the best stripe size, given how the disk operated. But the newer units may have changed this, and why you've seen the other sizes (I haven't kept up with each of the revisions since G2's first released).

    Disk Utility is fine (it's software based as well).
     

Share This Page