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any pill poppers?

Turmoil said:
I suggest large doses of Meth Amphetamine.
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Meth is for *******, I suggest adrenochrome, that stuff is hardcore.

But in all seriousness, just get decent sleep and eat properly, I'd only suggest amphetamines for someone with ADHD. They have quite a specific effect on sufferers of the condition, If I take them I get mellowed out rather than stimulated letting me focus on one thing rather than my usual mentally hyperactive state.

If you don't suffer from ADHD you'll likely need to steadily increase the dose to experience the effects you want, amphetamine addiction and psychosis is not fun.
 
SLC Flyfishing said:
You're assertion that they require NO pre-approval is misleading. The FDA does oversee dietary supplements in the same way they oversee food (you do know that FDA stands for Food and Drug Administration right?).

You seem to be implying that it is possible to slip some sort of dangerous chemical into a supplement. That just simply isn't the case Eric. The FDA evaluates the ingredients in the supplements, and their form, if it's anything that can chemically alter the structure or function of the body in a way that is outside of normal, then it's a drug and requires the extensive testing and development that other drugs must go through.

In a sense you are correct in saying that supplements are potentially dangerous, in the context that they aren't evaluated for years and years before being introduced into the market. But there are many many examples of drugs which were found to be deadly or dangerous after previously being FDA approved which were pulled from the market, and supplements which can be demonstrated to be harmful are also generally pulled. The last time I was able to dig up anything about potentially dangerous ingredients in supplements was in 2004. More recently the FDA has determined that cough medicines must be restricted from use in very young children.

Prescription drugs kill 106,000 people every year in the USA, and supplements are linked to an average of 16.

Look I'm no fan of supplements, I too think they are a waste of time. But for you to insinuate that they are dangerous (and that's just what you did) is wrong. 0.03% of the entire population will die this year as a direct result of taking prescription drugs. 0.000005% by supplements.

What's important to take from all of this is to realize that there is no such thing as a safe drug, and I'd extend that to supplements as well. But it's plain to see that supplements have a safety record that prescription drugs can't even dream of. Supplements in general are indeed safe.

SLC
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In what way am I being misleading? Directy from the FDA's website:
Under the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA), the dietary supplement manufacturer is responsible for ensuring that a dietary supplement is safe before it is marketed. FDA is responsible for taking action against any unsafe dietary supplement product after it reaches the market. Generally, manufacturers do not need to register their products with FDA nor get FDA approval before producing or selling dietary supplements. Manufacturers must make sure that product label information is truthful and not misleading.​

On the other hand, I feel as if your statistics regarding the direct causes of death for prescriptions drugs vs. supplements are misleading. You're very correct in that direct deaths from supplements are extremely rare (after all, most of them don't do anything), but how many people are going to die this year as an indirect cause of taking supplements? Despite the warnings, people continue to take supplements in leu in real medicines, and die as a result. Therein lies the danger.

What's the harm, you ask? Here it is: http://whatstheharm.net/herbalremedies.html
 
EricNau said:
You're very correct in that direct deaths from supplements are extremely rare (after all, most of them don't do anything), but how many people are going to die this year as an indirect cause of taking supplements? Despite the warnings, people continue to take supplements in leu in real medicines, and die as a result. Therein lies the danger.
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Ahh yes, to put it in mactastic lingo, you're moving the goalposts. I've provided data that doesn't jive with what you're asserting and now you slide to the side and skirt the need to answer my claims.

Well if you want to do that, then provide us with statistical data showing how big a problem this "epidemic" of taking supplements instead of real medicines. I want a list of how many deaths occur because of this, and I want sources. Until then, you're just blowing smoke out your ass!

I've provided a list of deaths attributed directly to prescription medications and supplements. I didn't even include OTC's in my numbers. I can provide a link to those numbers if you like. They were taken from an article attempting to vilify supplements, but in the end was only to make the vague claim that we don't know how dangerous supplements are. I'd suggest that we know based on the statistics cited in the paper that we know that traditional prescription medications are much more dangerous!

So let's have it Eric, put up or shut up, as they like to say!


SLC
 
EricNau said:
In what way am I being misleading? Directy from the FDA's website:
Under the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA), the dietary supplement manufacturer is responsible for ensuring that a dietary supplement is safe before it is marketed. FDA is responsible for taking action against any unsafe dietary supplement product after it reaches the market. Generally, manufacturers do not need to register their products with FDA nor get FDA approval before producing or selling dietary supplements. Manufacturers must make sure that product label information is truthful and not misleading.​
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So you took this from the FDA website, yet you fail to admit that there is regulation, just because a supplement doesn't need to have FDA approval before being sold on the market doesn't make it inherently unsafe. And right there in the text it says that the FDA is responsible for taking action against any unsafe dietary supplement after it hits market. i.e.: If something is found to be unsafe it is removed from the market. Where do you get that supplements are unsafe from that? If you're really worried about it, then wait to take them until they've been on the market for a while, then it's been shown to be safe, at least safer than prescription drugs that are required to be administered under the watch of a physician.

SLC
 
EricNau said:
Manufacturers must make sure that product label information is truthful and not misleading.[/INDENT]
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And this statement alone means that if somebody takes a supplement instead of a medicine, it's their problem. The label must clearly state that the supplement is not meant to diagnose nor treat illness, anyone who reads that and still thinks it can is foolish.

Besides, what do you care what other people do to their bodies, right ;)

SLC
 
spaceballl said:
Yeeeears ago back in high school, we had to pull an all nighter for some exam and we tried no-doze to keep us up. It definitely worked, but it also made us shake and stuff haha. I definitely wouldn't recommend it!

Back in college, I just used red bull if I needed to stay awake for some task. That would work somewhat, but not that well.

These days, if I need to be pepped up at work, I just settle for a diet coke :rolleyes:. But man I really can't pull the all nighters like I used to... if I'm super exhausted, I'm pretty worthless at work.
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Yep i am the same, i don't take drugs to keep me a wake energy drinks give me heart palpitations. I can't pull all nighters either. I will be useless at work the next day
 
SLC Flyfishing, there's no need to hold grudges against other members regarding previous discussions, nor make negative references to them. I think it best we end this now. We're just splitting hairs at this point; I'm not even sure we disagree on the major issue.
 
Improve your sleep quality and get yourself on a good sleep cycle.

Supplements and Energy Drinks don't really work, especially long term. If there was a pill to make everyone have unlimited energy everyone would be using it.

Being active makes gives me more energy during the day and makes me sleep better at night.
 
EricNau said:
SLC Flyfishing, there's no need to hold grudges against other members regarding previous discussions, nor make negative references to them. I think it best we end this now. We're just splitting hairs at this point; I'm not even sure we disagree on the major issue.
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Who said anything about holding grudges, I think you're making things up. If it's about my reference to mactastic, sure we disagree on pretty much everything, but you are indeed moving the goalposts as he likes to say. Nothing resembling a negative reference in that.

So am I to assume that you have no data to back your assertions up? Because that's what I thought would be the case. I could tell that you were just pulling things out of the air to make it sound like you'd actually researched or knew anything about this topic. I suggest you stop doing that, especially when you're going to invoke the "rules" of good science. It "raises every red flag in the book!" right? It was you after-all who said (in this very thread) that it's wrong to make "vague, unsubstantiated claims with no specific results or studies".

Again, I'm just against supplements as you are, I will agree that they are generally completely useless. The difference between you and I is that I have actually read up on the subject, taken courses in human physiology, biochemistry, and Pharmacology and Toxicology to back up what I add to any conversation on the subject; you on the other-hand, don't like supplements and will make things up, things that are completely untrue or stated way out of context, to get someone to think like you do. Am I to assume that this is the way you operate in other threads too, it would be good to know. I can only assume that this is the case at this point.

SLC
 
I vary the thing.

[I vary the things that stimulate me. Nutrition, coffee, tea tobacco, orange juice, energy drinks, exercise, fresh air. Each things give you a little pep in a different way.
 
12 hours a day on the computer?? :eek:

Is that your job? And does it require a ton of overtime? Because if the answer to either one of these is "no", then I think we've discovered the problem.
 
well ive been on the focus fast for the last little while and it definitely helps me out with my memory and concentration... not bad at all.
 
SLC Flyfishing said:
Who said anything about holding grudges, I think you're making things up. If it's about my reference to mactastic, sure we disagree on pretty much everything, but you are indeed moving the goalposts as he likes to say. Nothing resembling a negative reference in that.

So am I to assume that you have no data to back your assertions up? Because that's what I thought would be the case. I could tell that you were just pulling things out of the air to make it sound like you'd actually researched or knew anything about this topic. I suggest you stop doing that, especially when you're going to invoke the "rules" of good science. It "raises every red flag in the book!" right? It was you after-all who said (in this very thread) that it's wrong to make "vague, unsubstantiated claims with no specific results or studies".

Again, I'm just against supplements as you are, I will agree that they are generally completely useless. The difference between you and I is that I have actually read up on the subject, taken courses in human physiology, biochemistry, and Pharmacology and Toxicology to back up what I add to any conversation on the subject; you on the other-hand, don't like supplements and will make things up, things that are completely untrue or stated way out of context, to get someone to think like you do. Am I to assume that this is the way you operate in other threads too, it would be good to know. I can only assume that this is the case at this point.

SLC
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After much research it looks like crystal meth would be the safe route to a productive all nighter. Right SLC?
 
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