Anybody else find Pages horrible?

jared_kipe

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2003
2,967
1
Seattle
For what it is worth I plan on TRYING to write lab reports with Pages this quarter. We'll see how they go. But I'll make a template of the basic report and just Change thing in it to make them unique. I think it should work.
 

weldon

macrumors 6502a
May 22, 2004
642
0
Denver, CO
jemeinc said:
I couldn't agree more. There has to be a way to implement this. Though, getting the approval from APA, and MLA might be a problem. They want to sell their manuals, and this could, conceivably, cut into their sales.
EndNote and the like don't seem to have a problem. Just imagine an open XML database of references that could be transformed into different citation and bibliography styles using XSLT with a super friendly front-end that can hide the complexity of XML and XSLT for most people, but still leaves all the flexibility there for those that want it, all integrated into Word.

But back to Pages... I think this is an example of a really useful word processing feature that would absolutely ruin Pages. As soon as it tries to compete with Word, the product will be doomed. Apple needs to stay true to the conception of simple page layout app with some decent word-processing features. I still think the perfect comparison is to Microsoft Publisher on Windows. I could use something like that on the Mac.
 

RacerX

macrumors 65832
Aug 2, 2004
1,504
2
weldon said:
Great post. I've heard of Pages by Pages, but I didn't think that Apple's Pages was a direct descendant. While I took programming classes in college on a NeXT box, I never used the app and thought it was more of a classic word processor.
A lot of people didn't give Pages a try back then... it was a little expensive ($795), and I was using FrameMaker for papers on NeXT systems back then.

As for the rest of the discussion about comparing Pages to other apps...

I think it's absolutely fair to compare Pages to what else is out there...
What I see Pages as trying to do (again) is to define a new category.

I've seen the same thing happen with Create. When people try to do a toe-to-toe line up on some other app's specialty area, it is going to fall short. Compare Create to Illustrator in doing illustration and Illustrator wins... But it should, after all it is a dedicated illustration app, while Create is not. Compare Create to InDesign or QuarkXPress for page layout and those other apps win... But they should, after all they are dedicated layout apps. Further, all those dedicated apps cost far more than Create.

The problem is that most people hold up what is new to what they know. I think that if something like Create was held up to QuarkXPress looking at both apps illustration abilities, that would be just as fair. It is when we restrict these newer (to most people) apps to categories that they are not attempting to compete in directly that the comparisons fall far short.

I truly believe that apps like Pages and Create fill voids that exist in the software industry today. First, they don't cost as much as high end solutions. Second, they address some ranges of users which other companies try to force into high or low end apps. The gulf between the high end and low end has been getting larger over the years.

Pages lets people with little background make quality documents. Create provides a middle ground for people with experience that don't have the money or need for the top of the line professional apps.

Rather than pushing these into other categories, we should embrace these apps for filling these gaps in our (collective) software selection.

As I said, Pages, is not for me... but it is a solution for someone and I recognize that. And I sure don't need (or want) Apple to redefine it around my needs at the expense of those it is design to serve.

:rolleyes:

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that just because Pages isn't the app that some people want it to be doesn't make it a bad app or one that doesn't have it's place in the computing world.
 

Neuro

macrumors regular
Jun 15, 2003
209
2
London
devman said:
Go to system preferences. Open International. Drag British English to be first in the list of languages. If it's not in the list, click the Edit button to add it.
Good stuff. :)

I never thought it would be a system-level setting...
 

Fukui

macrumors 68000
Jul 19, 2002
1,617
6
jamdr said:
The main problem with the UI I think is that it is too hard to access things that you want to do all the time. Everything is in that annoying palette with all those buttons, when instead Apple should move some things to the toolbar. I want to be able to change fonts and styles and justification with the click of a button.
I thought one of the nice thing was that its all in one place, you don't have to look for it... thats what I liked about Keynote. You can add fonts and colors items to the toolbar AFAIK.

The thing that I don't like about pages is very simple: No text background highlighting and no ruby support, and no vertical text.
 

weldon

macrumors 6502a
May 22, 2004
642
0
Denver, CO
RacerX said:
  • What I see Pages as trying to do (again) is to define a new category.
  • The problem is that most people hold up what is new to what they know.
  • And I sure don't need (or want) Apple to redefine it around my needs at the expense of those it is design to serve.
  • I guess the point I'm trying to make is that just because Pages isn't the app that some people want it to be doesn't make it a bad app or one that doesn't have it's place in the computing world.
I think if it's trying to define a new category it will fail. People won't really know what to do with it and won't understand why they need it. It's important to provide a comparison so that people can understand what they can do with the app. And I have no such compulsions about trying to refrain from imposing my viewpoint on everyone around me. :p

Your discussion about pro apps was useful because I think Pages could be a success if Apple targets it as a consumer or small business app that is a friendly, light page-layout app. Much like Microsoft Publisher on Windows.
 

RacerX

macrumors 65832
Aug 2, 2004
1,504
2
weldon said:
I think if it's trying to define a new category it will fail.
Well, Pages for NEXTSTEP failed, so it already has a history of that. But that doesn't negate the fact that a number of new categories are needed to fill in the gaps left by the current line of specialty apps.

But a more important question is... Do you want it to fail? And is this because you don't see this need from your point of view? Or that you can't comprehend a new category?

Why, in your opinion, is it going to fail?

People won't really know what to do with it and won't understand why they need it. It's important to provide a comparison so that people can understand what they can do with the app.
Why is a comparison needed? Are people unable to understand a description?

When you compare it to PageMaker, that doesn't help the people who it is aimed at. They know nothing of PageMaker. The comparison is meaningless to them. Why do you think Apple has been pushing it more along the lines of a word processor? Because it is aimed at people who want something more than a word processor but have no clue about PageMaker, InDesign or QuarkXPress.

And by making a comparison you are setting up the other app as the yard stick...

I'm just saying give Pages a chance to find it's own place.
 

wrldwzrd89

macrumors G5
Jun 6, 2003
12,106
75
Solon, OH
Fukui said:
I thought one of the nice thing was that its all in one place, you don't have to look for it... thats what I liked about Keynote. You can add fonts and colors items to the toolbar AFAIK.

The thing that I don't like about pages is very simple: No text background highlighting and no ruby support, and no vertical text.
I'm not too familiar with Ruby. What is it?
 

Fukui

macrumors 68000
Jul 19, 2002
1,617
6
wrldwzrd89 said:
I'm not too familiar with Ruby. What is it?
It's useful to add pronunciation to the text for different language speakers, or usually in JP language papers so someone can know how to speak a particular Chinese character.

It may be obscure but its very useful, especially if it was built in to Cocoa just like spelling...
 

Attachments

wrldwzrd89

macrumors G5
Jun 6, 2003
12,106
75
Solon, OH
Fukui said:
It's useful to add pronunciation to the text for different language speakers, or usually in JP language papers so someone can know how to speak a particular Chinese character.

It may be obscure but its very useful, especially if it was built in to Cocoa just like spelling...
I'd LOVE to see Ruby support in TextEdit for Tiger!

EDIT: Oops, wandering off-topic again...

Ruby support should definitely be in an update of Pages.
 

Fukui

macrumors 68000
Jul 19, 2002
1,617
6
wrldwzrd89 said:
I'd LOVE to see Ruby support in TextEdit for Tiger!

EDIT: Oops, wandering off-topic again...

Ruby support should definitely be in an update of Pages.
I'm sure your not the only one.
 

mac-er

macrumors 65816
Apr 9, 2003
1,454
0
Pages 1.0 is typical Apple. Anytime Apple puts out the first version of a product, its really a beta.

And, no, not necessarily because of bugs, but because it lacks the features or speed that a GM product should (ie OS 10.0)
 

gekko513

macrumors 603
Oct 16, 2003
6,302
1
I wasn't very fond of the utility panels on Mac OS X until I discovered that most of them were the same across a number of applications. After that I kind of love them for their consistency.

And for the record, I hate the cluttered toolbars in Word.
 

broken_keyboard

macrumors 65816
Apr 19, 2004
1,144
0
Secret Moon base
I thought it was revolutionary - the idea that you always start with a template and never with a blank document. I thought - wow, all these years and Microsoft didn't come up with this?

But after trying to use it, it was non-intuitive and I gave up after about 10 minutes.
 

The Past

macrumors 6502
Aug 17, 2004
291
0
United States
thequicksilver said:
Jobs called this 'Word processing with an amazing sense of style', indicating that it's a word processor à la Word. It's not. It's a basic DTP application
Agree! I don't think one should talk about Pages and Word as if they were in the same genre.
 

rainman::|:|

macrumors 603
Feb 2, 2002
5,438
2
iowa
yes. very unhappy with it. I've spent a bit of time trying to customize it... get my toolbars all lined up, the preferences customized... and it's still crap. It seems like Apple is trying to simplify everything a wee bit too much here... I like being able to quickly set my fonts, tabs, margins, and just go. While they've clearly fixed some long-running mistakes from Appleworks, they're now centered around styles and templates... which, while well intentioned, are too cumbersome for my needs. Word suffers from the same problems but at least lets you quickly go if you're freeforming (changing attributes on-the-fly). I must admit Word is currently my processor of choice, tho I'm really hoping Pages gets better with revisions.
 

Abulia

macrumors 68000
Jun 22, 2004
1,786
1
Kushiel's Scion
broken_keyboard said:
I thought it was revolutionary - the idea that you always start with a template and never with a blank document. I thought - wow, all these years and Microsoft didn't come up with this?
Actually, for the past several years Office has offered the option upon opening to load a document or pick on of several templates. Office even organizes them by type: Professional memo, sales order, etc. So, nothing new there. Move along.

Can't stand Pages. I'm a writer and it (Pages) is totally unsuitable. Clearly a wannabe DTP program, ala Publisher. I'm sure Pages is great for doing a church newsletter. For any moderately-serious writing, Pages is unacceptable.

I'm very impressed with Office for the Mac. W/ student pricing, that bundle is a steal. Mature and powerful apps. (And, strangely, the Mac version is better than the Windows version.)
 

Fukui

macrumors 68000
Jul 19, 2002
1,617
6
Don M. said:
I'm a writer and it (Pages) is totally unsuitable. Clearly a wannabe DTP program, ala Publisher. I'm sure Pages is great for doing a church newsletter. For any moderately-serious writing, Pages is unacceptable.
I think thats the whole point.
They wouldn't wanna step on MS' territory... just yet anyways.
 

tuggy

macrumors newbie
Feb 18, 2005
19
0
guys, if you really want to make some SERIOUS word-processing, i suggest you to try the LaTeX system :)
LyX is what i miss most since i switch from linux to mac.
http://www.lyx.org
 

MacNeXT

macrumors 6502
Jun 21, 2004
258
0
tuggy said:
guys, if you really want to make some SERIOUS word-processing, i suggest you to try the LaTeX system :)
LyX is what i miss most since i switch from linux to mac.
http://www.lyx.org
I agree, I just made the switch. Once you're familiar with LaTeX, which will take some time, you will think anything else (including Word) is crap. I use TeXShop (http://www.uoregon.edu/~koch/texshop), which I think is good, but I haven't tried any others.
 

OCOTILLO

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2005
219
0
Houston, TX
Work in Progress

alexf said:
Is is just me, or is Pages one of the worst apps that Apple has put forth recently?

Designing a newsletter has proven to be one of the worst computing catastophes that I have had in recent years. Pages erased my work multiple times, even after I had saved it. Also, the way the program formats is terrible; Apple has caught the Word syndrome of trying to help you so much with Word processing - guessing what you want to do and doing it for you - that it makes you want to pull your hair out. I also find the interface very counter-intuitive (highly surprising for an Apple app)

Sorry for the rant, but I just lost a lot of money and time because of this half-baked program, and I have to let it out. I had high hopes for Pages and am sorely disappointed. And I thought that only Microsoft could push my buttons like this... :mad:
I purchased iWork to produce newsletters and instruction sheets. I too found it to be an unwieldy program. A new user can make a decent project if they pick a template and not deviate from it. Changing fonts, layout, etc. is painful. I assume (hopefully) that Apple wiil continue to upgrade the program.
I hate to say it, but I have an old copy of Microsoft Publisher for Windows (1 CD) that I have used for the last 6 years. It is much more intuitive than Pages. I got rid of most of my Windows software when I switched to MAC, but I kept Publisher and my old Celeron laptop for emergencies.
 

Fukui

macrumors 68000
Jul 19, 2002
1,617
6
Hey anybody tried Hancom office?
I've used it on Win but heard its also available on OSX too.
 

ct77

macrumors member
Jan 6, 2004
84
0
Works for me

I used Pages to produce some documentation for my day job.

I found Pages easy to pick up, and the end result of my work has turned more than a few heads at the office.

So much so, that we're probably going to purchase a Mac mini + Pages to be a dedicated writing machine. :D

This, as opposed to purchasing a single license for Adobe InDesign, which at $699 USD, is actually more expensive.