Anybody migrating to PC whilst waiting for new hardware?

Giuanniello

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 21, 2012
443
131
Capri - Italy
How many years since Apple doesn't release "new" hardware (which is not just a refreshed CPU and a xmas lights bar like on the MBPros) worth such name?

Is anybody contemplating going (back) to PC and Windows?

Apple's hardware nowadays, in my opinion, is worth 0, the only thing which still keeps up is the OS but given more and more restrictions (last one I found out is I can't sync MY books on MY iPad) I don't know if it still makes sense to spend so much money for cheap but stylish hardware just to run MacOS (till it converges with iOS).

Did anybody already jump the fence or looking at the neighbours?
 
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H2SO4

macrumors 601
Nov 4, 2008
4,578
4,798
When you say neighbours I’m assuming you mean Linux etc?
Don’t know what I’m going to do when my 5,1 dies. Don’t like Windows.

Might just taken up another hobby to replace computing instead.
 

MisterAndrew

macrumors 68000
Sep 15, 2015
1,966
1,518
Portland, Ore.
I think it depends on your specific needs. The MP 5,1 works well for my needs. If you need a better CPU an iMac could hold you over until the MP 7,1. Also, Windows is awful. I just finished updating my Boot Camp drive to the October update 1809 and it wasn’t a pleasant experience. I had trouble even finding it to download and then it failed to install on the first attempt. I guess they temporarily pulled it due to some issue some people were having, but even so, Microsoft pushes out updates gradually so you don’t know when you’ll get them and they also force updates on you. Apple gives you a choice to update and releases them to everyone at the same time. I like how Apple handles it much better. I have Windows just for a few things like games and flashing a graphics card. If I was going to switch to a different OS from macOS for main use it would be Linux.
 

mattspace

macrumors 65816
Jun 5, 2013
1,416
1,080
Australia
Anyone have experience with how much overhead there is, or what doesn't work with virtual machines? Starting to wonder if just running macOS (and windows) in VMs on top of Linux is going to be a viable solution, though i guess it would come down to how much access they'd have to GPU etc?
 

h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
14,108
6,735
Hong Kong
I already built my Hackintosh as the backup computer. Easier than I expect.
0655DE1A-77CF-43F8-A133-1E8320B216D7.png

This solution seems very good to me. After the initial setup, the maintenance is pretty much the same as the cMP, able to upgrade, fast and quiet, stay with MacOS, and even better, always have boot screen.

So that when my 5,1 die, I can switch to it straight away (if the 7,1 is not what I want, or even still not available yet).
 

tromboneaholic

Suspended
Jun 9, 2004
3,706
3,024
Clearwater, FL
Are you a video editor, motion graphics artist, or do you need 4 GPUs for Octane Render?

The only need I have is the ability to install external GPUs, but I'm willing to wait and see what comes out next year.
 

Miguel Cunha

macrumors 6502
Sep 14, 2012
339
82
Braga, Portugal
Did anybody already jump the fence or looking at the neighbours?
I did, about a year ago.
I bought two HP workstations and I'm very happy with them.
Apple fell behind and their prices skyrocketed.
To buy an interesting machine you need to make a huge initial investment and since they solder everything, including RAM their value in time decreases.
So, Apple needs to change their greedy philosophy. Just a new supposedly upgradeable machine in the horizon is far from being captivating.
 
Last edited:

pl1984

Suspended
Oct 31, 2017
2,230
2,642
When you say neighbours I’m assuming you mean Linux etc?
Don’t know what I’m going to do when my 5,1 dies. Don’t like Windows.

Might just taken up another hobby to replace computing instead.
This seems rather drastic just because you don't like Windows. Windows can't be that bad for you can it?
[doublepost=1539605634][/doublepost]
Anyone have experience with how much overhead there is, or what doesn't work with virtual machines? Starting to wonder if just running macOS (and windows) in VMs on top of Linux is going to be a viable solution, though i guess it would come down to how much access they'd have to GPU etc?
I use VirtualBox to run a number of Windows and Linux virtual machines on a 16 core Z620 with 64GB of RAM. I do not do any computationally intensive tasks within the virtual machines but they feel like they're running on bare metal. Since VirtualBox runs on OS X you might want to download a copy and perform some evaluations on your workflow.
 

DearthnVader

macrumors 65816
Dec 17, 2015
1,133
5,729
Red Springs, NC
Anyone have experience with how much overhead there is, or what doesn't work with virtual machines? Starting to wonder if just running macOS (and windows) in VMs on top of Linux is going to be a viable solution, though i guess it would come down to how much access they'd have to GPU etc?
Works great, in a lot of ways better than a real Mac, almost no overhead.

Host Debian 9, Asus Prime B350, Ryzen 7 1700, 32 GB.

Passed to the OS X High Sierra guest 8 cores 16 threads, 16 GB Ram, NVME SSD, Apple branded 802.11AC PCI Card, RX580 8GB. I also ran Windows in a guest with a GTX1050.
 

h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
14,108
6,735
Hong Kong
Works great, in a lot of ways better than a real Mac, almost no overhead.

Host Debian 9, Asus Prime B350, Ryzen 7 1700, 32 GB.

Passed to the OS X High Sierra guest 8 cores 16 threads, 16 GB Ram, NVME SSD, Apple branded 802.11AC PCI Card, RX580 8GB. I also ran Windows in a guest with a GTX1050.
Any good guide about how to do the initial setup?
 
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DearthnVader

macrumors 65816
Dec 17, 2015
1,133
5,729
Red Springs, NC
Any good guide about how to do the initial setup?
https://github.com/kholia/OSX-KVM/tree/master/HighSierra

My Qemu launch command:

Code:
#!/bin/bash

# See https://www.mail-archive.com/qemu-devel@nongnu.org/msg471657.html thread.
#
# The "pc-q35-2.4" machine type was changed to "pc-q35-2.9" on 06-August-2017.
#
# The "media=cdrom" part is needed to make Clover recognize the bootable ISO
# image.

##################################################################################
# NOTE: Comment out the "MY_OPTIONS" line in case you are having booting problems!
##################################################################################

MY_OPTIONS="+aes,+xsave,+avx,+xsaveopt,avx2,+smep,+sse4.2"

/home/jam/QEMU/bin/qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -m 8192 -cpu Penryn,kvm=on,vendor=GenuineIntel,+invtsc,vmware-cpuid-freq=on,$MY_OPTIONS\
          -machine pc-q35-2.9 \
          -smp 16,cores=8 \
      -usb -usbdevice host:046d:c534 \
          -device ide-drive,bus=ide.0,drive=MacHDD \
      -drive id=MacHDD,if=none,file=./mac_hdd2.img \
          -device ioh3420,bus=pcie.0,addr=1c.0,multifunction=on,port=1,chassis=1,id=root.1 \
          -device vfio-pci,host=23:00.0,bus=root.1,addr=00.0,multifunction=on,x-vga=on,romfile=./RX580.rom \
          -device vfio-pci,host=23:00.1,bus=root.1,addr=00.1 \
-device vfio-pci,host=01:00.0,multifunction=on \
          -device ioh3420,id=root_port1,multifunction=on,chassis=1,addr=03.0,slot=3,bus=pcie.0 \
          -device vfio-pci,host=1f:00.0,bus=root.1,addr=01.0,multifunction=on  \
          -device isa-applesmc,osk="ourhardworkbythesewordsguardedpleasedontsteal(c)AppleComputerInc" \
          -drive if=pflash,format=raw,readonly,file=OVMF_CODE.fd \
          -drive if=pflash,format=raw,file=OVMF_VARS-1024x768.fd \
          -smbios type=2 \
      -device ich9-intel-hda -device hda-duplex \
          -netdev bridge,id=hn0 -device e1000-82545em,netdev=hn0 \
          -usb -usbdevice host:0a5c:4500 \
          -usb -usbdevice host:046d:0825 \
           -usb -usbdevice host:154b:007a \
-usb -usbdevice host:0930:6545 \
-vga none
 

Giuanniello

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 21, 2012
443
131
Capri - Italy
I already built my Hackintosh as the backup computer. Easier than I expect.
View attachment 795142
This solution seems very good to me. After the initial setup, the maintenance is pretty much the same as the cMP, able to upgrade, fast and quiet, stay with MacOS, and even better, always have boot screen.

So that when my 5,1 die, I can switch to it straight away (if the 7,1 is not what I want, or even still not available yet).

That's the idea, running OSX on cheaper than Apple hardware, I am not aware of current prices but I guess that to put together a decent machine with 32GB RAM, a 500GB SSD, a decent video board and a decent CPU won't break the bank account, I am waiting for a new Mini to come so I can buy an used one but this seems like taking an eternity and, let's say it all, Apple makes money not even with iPhones but with the AppStore(s) and I an foresee another CPU migration and an integration of MacOS and iOS as to force us to buy or rent apps through the Store in the mimics of what it seems the trend with very well established companies like Adobe but I can also see a lot of users looking at alternatives other than MacOS and Windows, unfortunately not everything runs on a Linux machine (as far as I know but this is from long time knowledge on the PC world so things might have changed but for sure software updates are not as frequent on Linux as they are on Win/Mac OSs).

Personally I need "only" to run a photo archive with a very common and known software and MacOS does that very well, what bothers me is ancient, expensive and fragile hardware (my 2009 27" iMac got video board fried again and it wasn't a cheap computer to buy, same for the backup machine being a 2011 MPBro whose problem, solved thanks to an US class action - here in Italy we are still at the stone era with regards to this - was the same, defective video board and if I think at the 2K+ US$ it costed and how fragile...

Hackintosh is probably the only viable solution rather than a fancy and expensive bin like MacPro or a fridge like old gen one but how many updates will be able to run before software houses add a couple more million code lines as to make them incompatible with Apple's not-too-recent hardware?

Best

Giovanni
[doublepost=1539617839][/doublepost]
Are you a video editor, motion graphics artist, or do you need 4 GPUs for Octane Render?

The only need I have is the ability to install external GPUs, but I'm willing to wait and see what comes out next year.
Nope, I would do fine even with my old iMac (if video board didn't fry) and MacBookPro computing power, I need to handle a picture archive which I could even do with older hardware if not because of the 64bit support required, limitation being installing RAM into the iMac and/or running high temperatures into those thin and claustrophobic enclosures, my ancient generation i7 cpus do very well, sure they don't allow me to fly a flight simulator but can give up on that but can't think of a 2K+ piece of hardware failing miserably...

Grazie

Giovanni
 

aaronhead14

macrumors 65816
Mar 9, 2009
1,032
4,605
I just built a hackintosh while I wait for the 7,1. It's not as difficult as a lot of people think. Just use components that are already (mostly) natively supported in macOS, and it's super easy.
 

H2SO4

macrumors 601
Nov 4, 2008
4,578
4,798
This seems rather drastic just because you don't like Windows. Windows can't be that bad for you can it?
[doublepost=1539605634][/doublepost]
I use VirtualBox to run a number of Windows and Linux virtual machines on a 16 core Z620 with 64GB of RAM. I do not do any computationally intensive tasks within the virtual machines but they feel like they're running on bare metal. Since VirtualBox runs on OS X you might want to download a copy and perform some evaluations on your workflow.
It's not rubbish by any stretch, probably as good as OSX actually. I just don't like it at all. It really wouldn't bother me that much to put more time into my woodworking.
 
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MarkC426

macrumors 65816
May 14, 2008
1,045
314
UK
It's not rubbish by any stretch, probably as good as OSX actually. I just don't like it at all. It really wouldn't bother me that much to put more time into my woodworking.
I have to disagree, sorry.
I have to use the microcrap in work and it stinks.
 
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pl1984

Suspended
Oct 31, 2017
2,230
2,642
I have to disagree, sorry.
I have to use the microcrap in work and it stinks.
I have to disagree, sorry. I use Windows a lot and it is just fine. The two operating systems are more alike than different which is why I am puzzled when people say they'd rather do a career change than use Windows.
 
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Matty_TypeR

macrumors regular
Oct 1, 2016
223
145
I have to disagree, sorry. I use Windows a lot and it is just fine. The two operating systems are more alike than different which is why I am puzzled when people say they'd rather do a career change than use Windows.
I have no problems with windows 10 either, much better than it used to be. My PC has never let me down or given me reason to diss win 10. after all dark mode comes from win 10 and its much better on win 10 than OSX and the fonts look better and clear. don't get me wrong I love my Mac Pro's but modern PC's are good to as long as you build it with good hardware. win 10 isn't bad really.
 
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unglued

macrumors 6502
Feb 20, 2016
257
96
I only use Windows at work because I have no other choice. OSX fully at home mainly for stability.
 

Hanson Eigilson

macrumors regular
Sep 19, 2016
222
216
Is anybody contemplating going (back) to PC and Windows
Yeah when they released the 2017 model and it still had so many undesirable features from the 2016 model I bought a PC, oddly enough the reasons i left Ballmers Microsoft are pretty much the same as my reasons for wanting to leave Cooks Apple.
Apple's hardware nowadays, in my opinion, is worth 0, the only thing which still keeps up is the OS but given more and more restrictions (last one I found out is I can't sync MY books on MY iPad) I don't know if it still makes sense to spend so much money for cheap but stylish hardware just to run MacOS (till it converges with iOS).
My reason for wanting to leave is more MacOs than the actual hardware, the hardware is certainly not ideal, sure, but MacOs feels so incredibly fragile to work with as a dev more so than IOS and those two together more fragile than any other OS I have worked with by quite a margin and it seems to me that either the leadership simply does not care, or does not value long term consistency, stability and backwards compatibility.
Using MacOs is still a zen like experience, very few options to toggle, no confusing content on the screen and when I read Apple documentation i get the exact same feeling, it's easy to get drawn in. But it seems to me that more now than ever before it's polished to look hassle free rather than actually be hassle free.
 
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Ozric

macrumors newbie
Jul 22, 2004
23
3
NJ
How many years since Apple doesn't release "new" hardware (which is not just a refreshed CPU and a xmas lights bar like on the MBPros) worth such name?

Is anybody contemplating going (back) to PC and Windows?

Apple's hardware nowadays, in my opinion, is worth 0, the only thing which still keeps up is the OS but given more and more restrictions (last one I found out is I can't sync MY books on MY iPad) I don't know if it still makes sense to spend so much money for cheap but stylish hardware just to run MacOS (till it converges with iOS).

Did anybody already jump the fence or looking at the neighbours?
[doublepost=1539647952][/doublepost]I’ve been a lifelong MacOS power user for video editing starting with the 8100/110 which cost me 6 grand at the time. My current 5,1 wasn’t cutting it in 4K, so late last year I built my first PC, Windows10, Skylake 7820X CPU, Asus X299 board, m.2 drives, and I must say this thing flies in Premiere. I hate the new OS, but MacDrive 10 was key to read/write Mac HD’s on the Windows OS. With both new PC and 5,1 networked together, I feel this is the best of both worlds, in that I have the speed to handle my footage on the PC side, stability, and ability to move my projects back and forth as necessary when I don’t like the particular box I’m on for what it’s doing at that moment. This new custom PC cost me $3200, and any IMac Pro I would want would be triple the cost, can’t wait to see what the new MacPro is going to cost! This solution works for me for the past year, and will never give up the MacOS.

Frankly, it astounds me that windows can’t calculate folder sizes in their finder window, or handle large strings of text in a file name, or copy a video file to another drive while it’s open in a player! We’re on the verge of machine learning and artificial intelligence and this is still the norm?
 

pl1984

Suspended
Oct 31, 2017
2,230
2,642
I only use Windows at work because I have no other choice. OSX fully at home mainly for stability.
OS X is no more / less stable than Windows. If you're having stability issues with a Windows system you likely have a hardware related issue.
 

TheStork

macrumors 6502
Dec 28, 2008
281
163
I've been experimenting with hackintoshes since 2010. My latest is based upon an ASUS ROG MAXIMUS HERO X with a Sapphire RXs 580 Pulse 8GB card, and it works great. (See my signature block for a link to my build description/installation instructions.) So, while I'm awaiting the Mac Pro 7,1, like the rest of you, MyHero II handles my my audio recording tasks and anything else I throw at it. :apple:
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,512
6,772
Already migrated to Windows PC. It was a real pain to switch, so I don't see myself switching back unless the mMP is absolutely phenomenal.
 
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