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Anyone else already had an ARM powered desktop?

Seoras

Seoras

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 25, 2007
857
2,274
Scotsman in New Zealand
I feel my life is coming around full circle.
Back in 1987, when I had just started University, I bought my 2nd home computer, an Acorn Archimedes, with an ARM2 processor.
This thing could fly in comparison to all the other machines at the time.
David Braben, the author of Elite, wrote a demo game for it called Zarch which showed the promise of 3D landscape games.
I had a copy of Acorn GNU C compiler for it and the ARM assembly programers manual.
That instruction set is a thing of beauty.
It's ultimate downfall was the lack of software as the world was quickly adopting the x86 platform as the software platform of choice with Apple limping along behind.
I only made the switch to Apple back in 2006 because they moved to Intel. I was heavily entrenched in the Windows XP world.
Only because Parallels offered a bridge between both worlds did I make the leap.
Now I find myself drawn to ARM Macs by nostalgia mainly but I also know that if Apple has complete silicon control things will get very interesting and they will differentiate their products significantly in areas like security, power management and hardware neural nets etc.
 
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I bought a Raspberry Pi 4 kit which came with a miniSD card with NOOBS. It's dual-booting Raspbian (desktop Linux based on Debian) and LibreELEC.

I hate desktop Linux with a passion and I rarely boot Raspbian but I kept in on the card since I figure some day I probably will need to flash the boot ROM or something and that a functional copy of Raspbian will make it easier.

Desktop Linux -- whether it's on ARM or x86/i64 hardware -- is a big bag of suck. Raspbian confirms that desktop Linux in 2020 is just as pathetic as desktop Linux in the late Nineties.

Naturally, this Raspberry Pi 4 is not my primary desktop computer. 99% of the time I use it for Kodi (LibreELEC).

Don't get me wrong. Linux on ARM is a great combination for ATMs, smart doorbells, automobile infotainment systems, etc.
 
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It feels like a nice end to an incredible story about how a processor came to be created and so widely used.
Designed for a desktop, home pc, but due to its unexpected low power usage it finds its success in mobile, battery powered devices only to find itself ~35 years later returning to the home pc where it began.
If it hadn't been for Apple it may have disappeared and been forgotten.
Short version:
Long version:
 
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I have a RiscPC with an ARM 710 (...and a 486DX of some variety in the second CPU slot) sitting in a cupboard. I fear that any attempt to turn it on would result in a fusillade of exploding capacitors and the death rattle of 25 year old disc drives (but I better try one day soon while I still own a display with VGA input).

Seoras said:
Only because Parallels offered a bridge between both worlds did I make the leap.
Click to expand...

Actually, for me, it was OS X - I needed to use Mac OS 7-9 for work but didn't like it much, but OS X was basically a Unix with a far better GUI that could run MS Office and Photoshop. Killer!

I'd switched to Windows NT once the Acorn became non-viable, and at work was a PC user in a sea of Macs (which meant I used Macs from time to time* but I didn't like MacOS Classic much). Once OS X came of age, though, I first got a PPC Mini, then a Mac Pro 1.1 & switched to Macs at work. Of course, in those days it helped that the Mac Pro was a lot of hardware for the price, whereas today it's kinda the other way around...

Being able to run Windows and x86 Linux on the Mac was invaluable at the time but those days are rapidly coming to an end and, next time I get a web development job on, I'll probably get a PC laptop for testing anyway (need to test on a touchscreen - and the last 'bugs' I found using virtual windows turned out to be Parallels bugs).

Frankly, though, I want to be able to choose my own displays (without selling a kidney for a Mac Pro or the madness of a Mac Mini that needs an eGPU) and am fed up with the inflexibility of my iMac. If the move to ARM means we get a Mini with a half-decent iGPU (I don't need a 8k video/120fps Call-Of-Duty monster - just something that can to smoothly run a couple of 4k screens in scaled mode) than that might be what keeps me on Mac.

(* I'm pretty sure that there were occasions when I had to use Unix, VMS, RiscOS, Mac OS and Windows in the course of one day...)
 
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Seoras said:
I feel my life is coming around full circle.
Back in 1987, when I had just started University, I bought my 2nd home computer, an Acorn Archimedes, with an ARM2 processor.
This thing could fly in comparison to all the other machines at the time.
David Braben, the author of Elite, wrote a demo game for it called Zarch which showed the promise of 3D landscape games.
I had a copy of Acorn GNU C compiler for it and the ARM assembly programers manual.
That instruction set is a thing of beauty.
It's ultimate downfall was the lack of software as the world was quickly adopting the x86 platform as the software platform of choice with Apple limping along behind.
I only made the switch to Apple back in 2006 because they moved to Intel. I was heavily entrenched in the Windows XP world.
Only because Parallels offered a bridge between both worlds did I make the leap.
Now I find myself drawn to ARM Macs by nostalgia mainly but I also know that if Apple has complete silicon control things will get very interesting and they will differentiate their products significantly in areas like security, power management and hardware neural nets etc.
Click to expand...

Yes, also former Acorn Archimedes A3000 user here, 8 MHz ARM2, 1 MB RAM, with 80 MB IDE harddisk, MIDI expansion part en RGB monitor.
 
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I also remember that the teachers machines at school had multi-sync monitors that could display different resolutions! So much cooler than our fixed-resolution screen at home
 
jouster said:
Bet your first was a Beeb...
Click to expand...
Of course! Went without saying, obviously! :) BBC B.
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theluggage said:
I have a RiscPC with an ARM 710 (...and a 486DX of some variety in the second CPU slot) sitting in a cupboard. I fear that any attempt to turn it on would result in a fusillade of exploding capacitors and the death rattle of 25 year old disc drives (but I better try one day soon while I still own a display with VGA input).



Actually, for me, it was OS X - I needed to use Mac OS 7-9 for work but didn't like it much, but OS X was basically a Unix with a far better GUI that could run MS Office and Photoshop. Killer!

I'd switched to Windows NT once the Acorn became non-viable, and at work was a PC user in a sea of Macs (which meant I used Macs from time to time* but I didn't like MacOS Classic much). Once OS X came of age, though, I first got a PPC Mini, then a Mac Pro 1.1 & switched to Macs at work. Of course, in those days it helped that the Mac Pro was a lot of hardware for the price, whereas today it's kinda the other way around...

Being able to run Windows and x86 Linux on the Mac was invaluable at the time but those days are rapidly coming to an end and, next time I get a web development job on, I'll probably get a PC laptop for testing anyway (need to test on a touchscreen - and the last 'bugs' I found using virtual windows turned out to be Parallels bugs).

Frankly, though, I want to be able to choose my own displays (without selling a kidney for a Mac Pro or the madness of a Mac Mini that needs an eGPU) and am fed up with the inflexibility of my iMac. If the move to ARM means we get a Mini with a half-decent iGPU (I don't need a 8k video/120fps Call-Of-Duty monster - just something that can to smoothly run a couple of 4k screens in scaled mode) than that might be what keeps me on Mac.

(* I'm pretty sure that there were occasions when I had to use Unix, VMS, RiscOS, Mac OS and Windows in the course of one day...)
Click to expand...

My path to Apple began with purchasing the original iPod because I wanted all my music on the move.
A year or two further along I was looking for a home server to run my website and email off and was looking at building something small.
Someone at the office said "what about the Mac Mini? It's cheap". It was, much cheaper than comparable mini server PCs in the same form factor so I got it, like you said, because it was basically a UNIX machine which is what I wanted.
I didn't really use it as a PC but played with it and was impressed by the UI.
I quit my job a few or two later, went back to Uni, needed a laptop and Apple had just switched to Intel and gave higher education discounts. Sold! Mac Book Pro 17". Still have it and it still works.
 
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Sadly, I never owned one personally, but I used various Acorn Archimedes-series machines at school (A3000, A4000, A5000 and A7000) and was always fascinated by them.

This was around 1997 - 2000, so they were pretty long-in-the-tooth even then, but I was still impressed by the responsiveness of the machines, and the RISC OS GUI (which, IMHO, was far nicer to use than the equivalent Win9X of that era, and it even gave my beloved classic MacOS 8/9 a run for its money)

My computing teacher was somewhat fanatical about Acorn (and vehemently anti-Mac), and would often hit out with such statements as, "These Acorn machines can run Windows 95 faster than a real PC can..." Hmm. I never bothered to test the veracity of his claims, but I remember getting worked up when he'd go on about "how much faster PCs are than Macs", this being the rise of the G3 era, when we were battling the 'MHz myth' - we live and learn!

A few years ago, I picked up a Raspberry Pi and had a play around with RISC OS which was a fun trip down memory lane.

I wonder what the chances are of virtualising (or perhaps even native booting) RISC OS on the forthcoming ARM Macs? I know Apple are using their own custom chipset (SoC, no less!) but there's bound to be a way... right?
 
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IndigoQuack said:
These Acorn machines can run Windows 95 faster than a real PC can..."
Click to expand...
My RiscPC had the fastest PC card you could get (133 MHz AMD Am5x86) and while Windows 95 was okay in full-screen mode (windowed mode substantially slowed things down) it didn't feel nearly as fast as a genuine 133 MHz PC.

I also tried Windows ME on that setup and it was slower than unusably slow.
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IndigoQuack said:
I wonder what the chances are of virtualising (or perhaps even native booting) RISC OS on the forthcoming ARM Macs?
Click to expand...
Same here.
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IndigoQuack said:
A few years ago, I picked up a Raspberry Pi and had a play around with RISC OS which was a fun trip down memory lane.
Click to expand...
... and made the original Pi feel insanely fast for a change. :)
 
Had a BBC Micro, then an Archimedes A310, an Acorn A4 (laptop) and finally a StrongARM RiscPC. I was intending to get a Pheobe before the project was canned.

At the time I worked for Action.com, who bought out Simnet (the education supplier) so we dealt with a lot of Acorn stuff. I remember going to the RiscPC launch event in London.

All were wonderful machines. Still waiting for Finder to be enhanced to do proper context saving like RISC OS and for a “proper” modular computer to come from Apple like the simply brilliant Acorn slice system.
 
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I've had an Acorn A3010 from pre Millenium and the 1.6MB Disc Drive was better
than 1.44MB on PC 😄. Trying Demos, BBC Basic, Games from BitmapBrothers,
StarFighter 3000... all finished as going with this "Home Computer" to a local
newspaper publisher to print out large DPI announcements - and of course these
Apple users was interested in the "Windows 95-like-Taskbar" and the Applications.

On the european mainland support from Acorn was lot difficult. Acorn compare to
other computers have better stereo sound qualities and a faster graphics (+cpu),
but for example transformation of Amiga and PC games to this platform was unlike
this RISC machine was available (one of the problem of "bankruptcy" to Acorn in
the Commonwealth was this and compare to performance inprovements on other
platforms and further software design this was the death for Acorn)...

Hopefully Apple create some "Killer-Apps" together with the new ARM Macs and
brings whole package (OS, APPs, Machine) to a more advanced level...
 
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Due to coronavirus, my kids do home schooling now using google classroom. Trying not to splurge a lot of money (I considered cheap old iMacs, but they came with non SSD hard drives which is a no) I built them Raspberry Pi 4 desktop computers, which of course are ARM. Tiny computer (can be belcroed behind the flat screen). Good enough to use google classroom, google sheets, etc. youtube and netflix (with a special compiled version of Chromium). They have also been playing around with Scratch to learn coding.

The official Pi Hut Raspberry Pi kit (includes case, ssd preloaded with noobs, power adapter, mini hdmi adapter) cost £80, official keyboard £14, official mouse £12, plus a Benq 22 inch flat screen for £130. Total cost for full desktop setup: £236 in total. The screen being the biggest expense.

They are really happy with their new computers. I've used them a few times, and I was surprised on how good the performance was (no issues browsing with multiple tabs open as I would do in my MBP).
 
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Acorn was before my time, but I've always been fascinated by the story.

I would love to own an original "Acorn RISC Machine" someday 😄
 
Hola had an eMate 300 - technically a laptop as opposed to desktop - arm machine for a while. 😀 (the “while” I had it for was well past it’s usable lifetime and was more of a curiosity than a daily machine)
 
IndigoQuack said:
A few years ago, I picked up a Raspberry Pi and had a play around with RISC OS which was a fun trip down memory lane.
Click to expand...

I was tempted to buy a Raspberry Pi just to have a sentimental play with RISC OS. It was far ahead of its time.

I wonder what the chances are of virtualising (or perhaps even native booting) RISC OS on the forthcoming ARM Macs? I know Apple are using their own custom chipset (SoC, no less!) but there's bound to be a way... right?
Click to expand...

No chance unfortunately as RISC OS will be written in 32bit ARM and ARM MacOS will be entirely 64bit.
 
On Raspberry PI 4 I would try out IRaspbian ( Mac OS Style Linux) with interesting
DOSBox ;) App for old DOS Games like Wing Commander or Civilization. If having
a large RPI set with SSD and external DVD ROM I would test this out. But RPI is
worth für much more interesting things...
 
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