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Anyone else hope that Apple does with they did with the iPhone 5S/SE with the Macbook Pro

M

mossme89

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 2, 2009
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Introduce a new model MacBook, call it the MacBook Classic or something. Use the old bodies from 2014 and 2015 with 2 USB ports but with new hardware.

Apple really makes me sad because I wanted to shell out the money for a new Macbook. But I also wanted at least 1 USB port, no touch bar, and the 2008-2015 style keyboards. I tried the butterfly keys and they hurt my fingers. But as a 2 finger typer I guess I'm "typing it wrong." I have never had fatigue issues with my unibody keyboard and I did the nanowrimo and typed 20,000 words in a month.
 
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That's not going to happen. SE filled a niche, in that they needed a smaller form factor, what you're asking is apple to reuse the old body just because you can get the old keyboards and old usb ports. Apple is about moving forward not backward.
 
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Whether you use two or ten fingers isn't what determines whether it hurts or not. It's about how hard you punch the keys. - On the butterflies, you're meant to apply less force, which should, if you do in fact apply less force, in theory result in less fatigue.
 
casperes1996 said:
Whether you use two or ten fingers isn't what determines whether it hurts or not. It's about how hard you punch the keys. - On the butterflies, you're meant to apply less force, which should, if you do in fact apply less force, in theory result in less fatigue.
Click to expand...

The physics of your fingers don't exactly work that way though. For a moving mass, your muscles are comfortable at moving it at a certain acceleration by exerting a force. How much force is optimal a bio-mechanical thing that is dependent on your body structure and on the resistance of the media, which is usually air for typing. For example, if you try to purposely take much larger or much smaller steps while you walk or run or jog, you'll find that it becomes very fatiguing, because the force needed is usually much larger than the optimal step size. Another good example is when you bike, an excessively fast or slow rotation rate for any resistance is very fatiguing because much of the energy is lost in your own body structure instead of being dissipated in the machinery.

Typing is no different. You can adjust the amount of force you use, but unless you also change the mass of your fingers, the adjusted amount of force is going to feel very unnatural to you, same as the scenarios above in running and walking. All this doesn't apply to people who hunt and peck with fingers, this only applies to people who are fluent in typing and usually has a certain rhythm.
 
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casperes1996 said:
Whether you use two or ten fingers isn't what determines whether it hurts or not. It's about how hard you punch the keys. - On the butterflies, you're meant to apply less force, which should, if you do in fact apply less force, in theory result in less fatigue.
Click to expand...
So it’s basically “You’re holding it wrong”?
[doublepost=1519744520][/doublepost]The usb c thing is the main thing holding me back from getting one of the newer macs. I’d be perfectly fine if they just replaced one of the USB ports. But to replace both is just dumb. I don’t want to have to carry around an adapter everywhere.

Are there any cases with the adapter built-in? Like a showcase for the MacBook Pro that doubles as a dock with ports?
 
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mossme89 said:
So it’s basically “You’re holding it wrong”?
Click to expand...


That's not what I mean - I was trying to give reason to the design choice. Not argue that it's absolutely the best for everybody or anything. I urge people to try and use the keyboard with less force if they can make it feel natural, but I also acknowledge that it may just be a flawed design for you or anybody else for that matter. Not for everyone though :)
 
mossme89 said:
Introduce a new model MacBook, call it the MacBook Classic or something. Use the old bodies from 2014 and 2015 with 2 USB ports but with new hardware.

Apple really makes me sad because I wanted to shell out the money for a new Macbook. But I also wanted at least 1 USB port, no touch bar, and the 2008-2015 style keyboards. I tried the butterfly keys and they hurt my fingers. But as a 2 finger typer I guess I'm "typing it wrong." I have never had fatigue issues with my unibody keyboard and I did the nanowrimo and typed 20,000 words in a month.
Click to expand...

I'd buy a 2015 design with updated internals but it's not going to happen....
 
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Imac Sam said:
[doublepost=1519757099][/doublepost]You can still get a NEW 2015 model if you wish from Macmall. I just bought my daughter one for college, because she don't need the toolbar or the bazillion dongles that would be needed for the latest model. So now we are a two 15" 2015 Macbook Pro Family.

http://www.macmall.com/n/Macbook-Pro-Retina-Display/macNavLinks-macNavLinks.222#2015
Click to expand...

No way, no how I'd pay that amount of cash for a 3 year old machine.. I would buy a 2015 design with 2018 internals though...
 
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raqball said:
No way, no how I'd pay that amount of cash for a 3 year old machine.
Click to expand...

Normally I'd agree with you, but for some of us the 2015 models are simply perfect in so many ways that they defy the normal age/cost/value logic.

Also - it's possible we may look back and the 2015 models are the end of the line and peak design for Apple laptops for those that like the feature set, keyboard, ports, on and on.

As many have said. Apple is moving "forward"*** (which in no way always means better) with no guarantees of ever again offering something that is as compelling as the 2015's are to some users.
 
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casperes1996 said:
Whether you use two or ten fingers isn't what determines whether it hurts or not. It's about how hard you punch the keys. - On the butterflies, you're meant to apply less force, which should, if you do in fact apply less force, in theory result in less fatigue.
Click to expand...
I've tried it, and for long typing sessions it does eventually start to become sore even if you're not hammering away. I'm talking really writing intensively, like spending much of a working day doing it, but it's still an issue if your workflow involves a lot of typing. It's just not a comfortable keyboard for extended sessions. I'm sure you'd be fine if you did very little typing though.
 
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Falhófnir said:
It's just not a comfortable keyboard for extended sessions.
Click to expand...

I try the 2016 in the house every so often again and I just can't stand it for typing..

Both my 2015 and my desktop Magic Keyboard allow my fingers to rest on the keys (the 2015 the most on this) and think with my fingers and have various gradations of pressure, some that don't even actuate the keys necessarily, which allows my form to wander a touch or a thought to revert before being entered..

I just need some key travel and feel to effectively get from my mind to the screen/page in a pleasant way that works with me and not against me.
 
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Not even the old Thunderbolt port took off, why should I trust there will be affordable USB-C accessories in the short term? My next laptop will be a Windows machine (high end, though, from Lenovo, HP or Dell). Answering OP question, Apple went back after some bad design decisions, but it's not common.
 
I just realized I didn't actually answer the OP question..

I'm an emphatic "YES" (but doubt it will happen sadly...)
 
I really do not understand all the hate for USB-C. It is a beast of a port and is the future. I have converted just about every peripheral I own to it already and the few things that are still USB-A work fine with a short adapter cable. Not the end of the world. The use of dongles has always been a thing with MacBooks Pros at least since I am using them if you want to connect to VGA, so this is no different.
 
JustinRP37 said:
I really do not understand all the hate for USB-C. It is a beast of a port and is the future. I have converted just about every peripheral I own to it already and the few things that are still USB-A work fine with a short adapter cable. Not the end of the world. The use of dongles has always been a thing with MacBooks Pros at least since I am using them if you want to connect to VGA, so this is no different.
Click to expand...

It's a very nice port, as it was the old Thunderbolt port. However, it requires dongles or docks just like the older Thunderbolt. As I said in the previous post, Thunderbolt never became mainstream, why should we believe that USB-C will be widely adopted? Moreover, why should I buy a Macbook before it becomes popular?
 
brdeveloper said:
It's a very nice port, as it was the old Thunderbolt port. However, it requires dongles or docks just like the older Thunderbolt. As I said in the previous post, Thunderbolt never became mainstream, why should we believe that USB-C will be widely adopted? Moreover, why should I buy a Macbook before it becomes popular?
Click to expand...
Why should we believe that USB-C will be widely adopted? Because it already is. It is really hard to to find a modern laptop for sale today (except the absolute cheapest) without at least one USB-C port. Many, especially the more expensive models have more USB-C than USB-A. You are seeing the same progression on desktops too. Why wouldn't you want the benefits of fast charging and one port to power so much? And it is faster than the older USB-A ports. Yes, it involves updating your equipment, but technology changes, and changes for the better that vast majority of the time. Next time you are able to hookup an HDMI projector, power your laptop, and use a USB-A device from one port using an old USB-A drive, let me know. Because that is what USB-C enables.

https://www.theverge.com/2015/6/2/8704551/usb-type-c-is-the-future
 
JustinRP37 said:
Yes, it involves updating your equipment, but technology changes, and changes for the better that vast majority of the time.
Click to expand...

Fair enough - Personally I'll join in when it's more ubiquitous.

Did you notice even the iMac Pro has USB-A shaped ports alongside the USB-C ones?
Pretty nice to have - today - for working right now.

I'll worry about the future when we get there.
 
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Would I like to see it happen yes, will it happen no. Apple will continue with the MBP on it's current trajectory, being designed to appeal to a specific audience, which it does. Thinner & lighter remaining to be the primary focus of the design.

Those needing higher levels of performance, not port constrained and or needing port diversity, keyboards with adequate travel need to look elsewhere simple as that. Many I know have or are in the process of dropping the Mac for the same reasons as the current MBP works against their professional needs.

I very much doubt that Apple will offer the equivalent of the iMac Pro as a notebook as the demand is simply too small for a portable at this price point.

Q-6
[doublepost=1520225998][/doublepost]
turbineseaplane said:
Fair enough - Personally I'll join in when it's more ubiquitous.

Did you notice even the iMac Pro has USB-A shaped ports alongside the USB-C ones?
Pretty nice to have - today - for working right now.

I'll worry about the future when we get there.
Click to expand...

As I've stated Apple's not remotely interested in USB C outside it allows Apple execute it's design language bringing thinner notebooks to market. "If" Apple was remotely serious about USB C:
  • Moved the iPhone to USB C, why not? Millions lost in revenue due to the licensing of Lightening
  • Apple would have offered it's own USB C/TB-3 dock at launch of the new MBP. Yet still today third parties remain to fill this void with whatever that may or may not work.
  • iMac Pro would be devoid of "useless" legacy Port's. One can only assume Apple is concerned with the backlash of marketing a "Pro" Mac with just a singular port type, who'd of thought...
  • Apple should have included USB C to USB A adaptors to ease the transition, it didn't for one simple reason Apple is overly focused on nickel & diming it's customers at every possible opportunity, which I personally find insulting.
  • Answer to the MPB and USB C only is very simple; the smaller port allows Apple to exercise it's design language, allows it's manufacturer's to streamline parts and production process, undoubtedly increasing Apple's margin with ever modular appliances...
USB C & TB-3 are significant advances, equally how the technology is implemented is very much a different matter. I'll stick with my dongle free solution, even has USB C/TB-3, Apple's loss not mine...

Q-6
 
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turbineseaplane said:
Fair enough - Personally I'll join in when it's more ubiquitous.

Did you notice even the iMac Pro has USB-A shaped ports alongside the USB-C ones?
Pretty nice to have - today - for working right now.

I'll worry about the future when we get there.
Click to expand...

I did notice that, but funny enough, the iMac Pro is thicker than the MBP. You have more room to support legacy ports. Apple has never been about keeping older ports in their portables. They were the first to drop the optical drive and everyone thought that was crazy. Turns out since then I have only used my portable SuperDrive twice. Now I’m not saying everything they do can be defended, like needing a whole top case replacement when the keyboard goes bad; however, this USB-C thing is not an issue.
 
JustinRP37 said:
I did notice that, but funny enough, the iMac Pro is thicker than the MBP. You have more room to support legacy ports. Apple has never been about keeping older ports in their portables. They were the first to drop the optical drive and everyone thought that was crazy. Turns out since then I have only used my portable SuperDrive twice. Now I’m not saying everything they do can be defended, like needing a whole top case replacement when the keyboard goes bad; however, this USB-C thing is not an issue.
Click to expand...
So why not just include an adapter in the box for the 100% of people that have been using USB A until now? For those people who buy a new iPhone and can't plug it straight into their new MacBook? This might have been driven in part by a desire for a thinner computer, but I'd say nickel and diming was also a big factor in the thinking. Otherwise why wouldn't you just include aforementioned adapter in the box?
 
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Falhófnir said:
So why not just include an adapter in the box for the 100% of people that have been using USB A until now? For those people who buy a new iPhone and can't plug it straight into their new MacBook? This might have been driven in part by a desire for a thinner computer, but I'd say nickel and diming was also a big factor in the thinking. Otherwise why wouldn't you just include aforementioned adapter in the box?
Click to expand...
I agree with that. I do think the prices of many of the adapters and dongles is asinine.
 
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