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bbates123

macrumors 6502a
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Jul 2, 2010
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It's nice that they offer this option, finally, but compared to other apps aready out there like Autosleep it seems to be lacking. Other apps can offer info like deep sleep time, quality sleep time, heart rate info...but all I'm seeing on Apple's implementation is total sleep time and a small graph showing breaks in sleep. And it's buried in the Health app...seems like it should be a standalone app. Or, am I missing something?
 
I haven't seen it in actual use, preferring to wait for the actual release, but from what I saw, I'm not impressed either. I've been using AutoSleep, but also have used Samsung Health's sleep tracking (very nice), and the Garmin sleep tracking on their watches, this one seems rather primitive. I don't need a reminder of when to go to bed, and being retired, I don't need an alarm any more (YAY!) but when I was working, I usually would wake up about 15-20 minutes before the alarm went off. Totally useless features for me. Show me how much REM, light, deep sleep, coordinated with the HR for that time. That would be informative, otherwise, this "feature" is right up there with the hand washing timer.
 
I feel the same. I’m wondering if they’re reserving some deeper analytics for the Series 6.
 
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I'm not too impressed...but honest question: what are people trying to get out of sleep tracking feature?

We know the keys to having a good sleep: get sun exposure, exercise, cut down caffeine, and having consistent sleep/wake times Out of that, what do you plan to do?

Back a few years ago, I used it on my Fitbit, and other than making me anxious about how I sleep, I wasn't able to improve anything with the data.

I'd rather the sleep tracking wake me up naturally (when finishing a sleep cycle).
 
i think it’s best to reserve total judgement until you actually use it. Perhaps not all of the watch’s features were unveiled yet to keep a lid on AW 6.
 
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I'm not too impressed...but honest question: what are people trying to get out of sleep tracking feature?

We know the keys to having a good sleep: get sun exposure, exercise, cut down caffeine, and having consistent sleep/wake times Out of that, what do you plan to do?

Back a few years ago, I used it on my Fitbit, and other than making me anxious about how I sleep, I wasn't able to improve anything with the data.

I'd rather the sleep tracking wake me up naturally (when finishing a sleep cycle).

It's a valid question. For me I just like to know how many days of the week I get an actual 8hrs of sleep (or close), and also how much of that was deep/quality sleep, to the extent that this can be accurate with an Apple Watch.
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i think it’s best to reserve total judgement until you actually use it. Perhaps not all of the watch’s features were unveiled yet to keep a lid on AW 6.

I just used it last night and the sleep data appears in Health just like the Autosleep data also appeared in Health, with very limited info. Like others, I hope that this gets refined/expanded as we go along in the beta process. I really think this deserves its own app on the iPhone instead of forcing you to dig into the Health app, much like how there is a separate Fitness app.
 
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I tried it tonight by tapping on the sleep icon in the control center of the Apple Watch. It turned off the screen but when I woke up just now and deactivated the sleep mode on my watch, I see nothing on the health app ..
 
I tried it tonight by tapping on the sleep icon in the control center of the Apple Watch. It turned off the screen but when I woke up just now and deactivated the sleep mode on my watch, I see nothing on the health app ..

Tat's winddown mode, not sure it actually activates sleep tracking specifically.
 
It actually worked! Took a while to sync back to the iPhone I guess.
Anyway, I agree. I am disappointed in how it is presented in the health app. I used to use „Pillow“ and that provides so much more information
 
I tried it last night. It does seem like it was able to tell the difference between laying in bed and sleeping, so I’ll give it props for that. And it does show heart rate info in the health app, OP.

But beyond that it’s a little basic.
 
Mark Gurman said something similar. Some comments said the tracking in 3rd party apps for light/deep sleep aren’t that accurate. Maybe there’s new hardware coming this fall that will enable more capability? Though I’m not sure what that hardware would be. Or maybe Apple is just shipping a minimum viable product and didn’t want to sherlock all the 3rd party apps?

 
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I tracked my sleep for a while and found it interesting how sleep works in general and what happened those nights. However, after a couple of weeks I felt like I wasn’t really learning anything new anymore.

Basically, all I want to know now is how many hours I’ve slept. Which is what it does offer.

Improving sleep, like explained above, involves the same kind of techniques Apple Watch does to get people to exercise more. I personally don’t like Watch constantly nagging me about my habits, but it’s the way to go for sleep I suppose. I would probably help to learn what you can do to improve sleep. Don’t see the added benefits of the more advanced tracking features.
 
I have a strong feeling that sp02 will be added in with the Series 6, and I would not be shocked if they announce an FDA cleared predictor for sleep apnea.

As it is now, I am also underwhelmed with their sleep addition. Yes, getting the cycles correct is very difficult. However, if consistent, I think there could still be some value. I at least think a score should be given. It’s not just how much sleep you get. It’s the quality of it.
 
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Does Garmin and Fitbit (probably the top two competitors in this space), handle sleep tracking better?
I suspect everyone is essentially using the same technology, but different in how the information is displayed.
 
Does Garmin and Fitbit (probably the top two competitors in this space), handle sleep tracking better?
I suspect everyone is essentially using the same technology, but different in how the information is displayed.

I would say that both give much more feedback. Personally, I think they’re better. Even if the Apple sleep feature is accurate, it’s not much information to use.
 
I noticed that I sleep far worse with sleep tracking enabled. First it takes me a lot longer to even fall asleep and then I wake up too early. Must be a mental thing with my head over thinking it, trying to get the perfect sleep. Too much pressure lol
 
I've been using sleep trackers for a while now, and I'm not sure yet what I think of the new native sleep tracking of watchOS 7. The native sleep tracker seem to pretty much be in line with the data from Autosleep in terms of Awake vs Asleep times for the past two nights. But I still don't know what I think of the native sleep tracker. Here's why...

There are lots of numbers to be watched and analysed about sleep. You can choose to try to display all of these numbers in one overview, but these numbers don't really mean anything if you don't know what they mean, how to interpret them or know how to act on them. And they for sure don't mean a thing if you do know all of this, but just decide not to act on it.

Take sleep regularity for example. Sleep regularity is very important to improve your sleep. You can choose to just display it as a number somewhere, which is what all sleep tracking apps have done, or you can choose not to display it but actively motivate you to go to sleep at the same time every night. Wind down is like your mother sending you to bed. Yes, it's annoying at first, but for sure she knows best!

An example about wrongly interpreted numbers. Morning heart rate and heart rate variability. Autosleep combines these into one variable called readiness. "Readiness" is used in training for a long time and it means how well your body is ready for training. But readiness won't capture itself in just a single number. The truth is that there are many different training forms and many different states of readiness. But for each train form, your readiness is always pretty binary. You are either ready for it, or you don't. For example, if you have a low resting pulse and a high heart rate variability, your body is ready for any type of training, while if you have a high resting pulse and a low heart rate variability or just a low heart rate variability, it's best to give your body rest. But, if you have a high resting pulse and also a high heart rate variability, you can perfectly do a recovery training or some D1 endurance. You can never be 80% ready for a HIIT or a Maximum Overload strength training. So combining resting pulse and heart rate variability in to one digit and simply call it "Readiness" does not make sense at all.

And now an example of really useless numbers. Many sleep tracking apps display a nice graph of your sleep cycles. No matter how good or bad your sleep cycles look, this graph doesn't mean anything about how good or bad you will be feeling the next day. There is also nothing you do to directly improve them. You cannot go to sleep and say to yourself you are going to work on your sleep cycles that night. Your sleep rhythm is just the result of the stress that your body needs to clean up during your sleep. The only way you can improve your sleep cycles, is just to live healthier. Eat healthier food, be more active and also relax from time to time. Sure, it's nice to see that after a late night at the bar, your sleep is all messed up. But it actually means that your body is doing it's work just fine, as it's number one priority is to get rid of the alcohol. You won't be feeling groggy the next that because of the sleep cycles themselves, but because of the reason these sleep cycles are the way they are. Again, you can choose to just display a nice graph, or you can try to actively motivate people to live healthier.

So, in short: You can actively change your intent to go to sleep, you can actively change your lifestyle to be more active and start eating healthier, and you can actively choose to relax from time to time, and that will have an effect on your sleep, but you can never actively improve your sleep! If just showing you all the numbers, is what you need to get motivated then that's nice! The reality is however that most people are not. In the same way that weighing yourself every day has never really motivated anyone to change their lifestyle.
 
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I used the bedtime feature prior to iOS 14 and watch 6. The alarm went off on my phone which woke me and my wife in the morning. This new sleep feature wants to use my watch for the morning alarm which has been waking me but not her since its just on my wrist. Any idea how, other than another alarm, to have my phone go off in the morning too. It tells you in the sleep alarm if you’re wearing your watch it goes off on your watch. I assume that means if the watch battery dies the phone picks up the alarm but still I want it in both places like the bedtime feature.
 
I don't have the beta on my watch.
It's just a first beta
Apple have as much or more access to data as 3rd party developers.
I have used sleep tracking in the past on fitbit. I reckon that the Apple watch has better sensors than most others so Apple will be able to give accurate sleep breakdowns.

IMHO I think that some apps make guesses about what is happening. We can't verify much of what is recorded as we are asleep.
 
I have a strong feeling that sp02 will be added in with the Series 6, and I would not be shocked if they announce an FDA cleared predictor for sleep apnea.

I've essentially told myself that sleep tracking is not for me unless there are real health benefits. I don't care to know how long I'm in REM or how many times I flip over.

If it can tell me if it thinks I need to be tested for sleep apnea, then that changes things and I would probably start using it and figuring out how to charge my watch at other times.
 
I've been using sleep trackers for a while now, and I'm not sure yet what I think of the new native sleep tracking of watchOS 7. The native sleep tracker seem to pretty much be in line with the data from Autosleep in terms of Awake vs Asleep times for the past two nights. But I still don't know what I think of the native sleep tracker. Here's why...

There are lots of numbers to be watched and analysed about sleep. You can choose to try to display all of these numbers in one overview, but these numbers don't really mean anything if you don't know what they mean, how to interpret them or know how to act on them. And they for sure don't mean a thing if you do know all of this, but just decide not to act on it.

Take sleep regularity for example. Sleep regularity is very important to improve your sleep. You can choose to just display it as a number somewhere, which is what all sleep tracking apps have done, or you can choose not to display it but actively motivate you to go to sleep at the same time every night. Wind down is like your mother sending you to bed. Yes, it's annoying at first, but for sure she knows best!

An example about wrongly interpreted numbers. Morning heart rate and heart rate variability. Autosleep combines these into one variable called readiness. "Readiness" is used in training for a long time and it means how well your body is ready for training. But readiness won't capture itself in just a single number. The truth is that there are many different training forms and many different states of readiness. But for each train form, your readiness is always pretty binary. You are either ready for it, or you don't. For example, if you have a low resting pulse and a high heart rate variability, your body is ready for any type of training, while if you have a high resting pulse and a low heart rate variability or just a low heart rate variability, it's best to give your body rest. But, if you have a high resting pulse and also a high heart rate variability, you can perfectly do a recovery training or some D1 endurance. You can never be 80% ready for a HIIT or a Maximum Overload strength training. So combining resting pulse and heart rate variability in to one digit and simply call it "Readiness" does not make sense at all.

And now an example of really useless numbers. Many sleep tracking apps display a nice graph of your sleep cycles. No matter how good or bad your sleep cycles look, this graph doesn't mean anything about how good or bad you will be feeling the next day. There is also nothing you do to directly improve them. You cannot go to sleep and say to yourself you are going to work on your sleep cycles that night. Your sleep rhythm is just the result of the stress that your body needs to clean up during your sleep. The only way you can improve your sleep cycles, is just to live healthier. Eat healthier food, be more active and also relax from time to time. Sure, it's nice to see that after a late night at the bar, your sleep is all messed up. But it actually means that your body is doing it's work just fine, as it's number one priority is to get rid of the alcohol. You won't be feeling groggy the next that because of the sleep cycles themselves, but because of the reason these sleep cycles are the way they are. Again, you can choose to just display a nice graph, or you can try to actively motivate people to live healthier.

So, in short: You can actively change your intent to go to sleep, you can actively change your lifestyle to be more active and start eating healthier, and you can actively choose to relax from time to time, and that will have an effect on your sleep, but you can never actively improve your sleep! If just showing you all the numbers, is what you need to get motivated then that's nice! The reality is however that most people are not. In the same way that weighing yourself every day has never really motivated anyone to change their lifestyle.

Great comment! I use AutoSleep and love all the data it provides, but I’m under no illusions that it’s totally accurate or all that helpful. I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple looked into it, determined that all the other apps are inaccurate, and decided to just display the data they know is correct.
 
Great comment! I use AutoSleep and love all the data it provides, but I’m under no illusions that it’s totally accurate or all that helpful. I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple looked into it, determined that all the other apps are inaccurate, and decided to just display the data they know is correct.

You both make very good points. I actually would rather the watch record more readings of HRV and HR at night and give me a more comprehensive figure for my readiness. I’ve always been a little annoyed that things like HRV, HR, recovery HR, and V02 Max are occasionally recorded but not very often and are not used for anything. I think Apple needs to make better use of all the data we have.

All of that matters more to me than knowing anything about my sleep cycles.
 
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You both make very good points. I actually would rather the watch record more readings of HRV and HR at night and give me a more comprehensive figure for my readiness. I’ve always been a little annoyed that things like HRV, HR, recovery HR, and V02 Max are occasionally recorded but not very often and are not used for anything. I think Apple needs to make better use of all the data we have.

All of that matters more to me than knowing anything about my sleep cycles.
That actually does not make any sense. There is not much scientific evidence that HRV that is measured throughout the day is usefull. Al evidence is based on your HRV taken each morning right after waking up together with your resting HR. When your an athlete on a serious training plan then these numbers are very important. If not, then these numbers don’t mean anything at all. Apple can’t possibly make better use of these numbers without knowing your personal training plan. And that means, your entire training plan!
Most training plans incorporate Meso-, Macro-, and Microcycli. Each of those cycli have different fases in which they focus on specific training forms at specific intensity. It could be that according to your training plan, you are supposed to do a strength training followed by a HIIT both at 80% of maximum capacity. Readiness just means whether or not you are ready for this. That variable is binary.

Theoretically, the best training plan is the one with the most training effect whilst still allows your body to recover enough so you’ll always be ready for the next training. In reality, this will almost never happen, so whenever you are not ready for a training, you have to revise the plan otherwise you risk overtraining.

I don’t think it should be Apple that needs to develop anything with these numbers, as they have such specific uses that it wouldn’t serve most of Apples users. Also, there are other companies such as TrainingPeaks or Today’s Plan, that are already way ahead of Apple in this.
 
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Current implementation is crap. Alarm went off on my phone and woke my girlfriend up as well. And offers no meaningful insights in the health app - at all.
 
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