Anyone Else Planning On Skipping Haswell And Instead Aim For Broadwell MBP?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by ooans, May 18, 2013.

  1. ooans macrumors 6502

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    #1
    First of, if this kinda threads irritate you, please do not read any further ;)

    I currently have a late 2008 15" MBP. With 8gb of ram and SSD it is still running fast enough for me, but not for long... Only program I've started to have trouble running is Final Cut Pro X, which is a shame cause the first versions of it ran fine, but now it's started to lag (even with the lightest settings.) Luckily for me, I use it very seldomly.

    Reasons I'm planning on skipping Haswell and aim for Broadwell:

    -Hopefully SSD prices will have gone down a bit by then and possibly there would be a 1TB SSD alternative. (Currently having two hard drives in my MBP, which easily and cheaply give me over 1TB of HD space. I need this for Aperture and iTunes libraries. Unfortunately using external HDs for those is not very handy, at least with iTunes I had the problem that it would at times forget that my library folder is on an external hd and instead start putting new songs on the main HD -> SUPER annoying. I would assume Aperture would do the same. Not worth the trouble to use external HDs for these libraries.)

    -Thunderbolt 2 will be released in the beginning of 2014. I currently do not have a thunderbolt connection in anything yet, and have not missed it. I would rather just get a thunderbolt 2 laptop straight away if possible. Though I'm sure I would not be able to afford any thunderbolt compatible devices for ages, but I plan to use my laptop for like 5 years. Hopefully by then there will be some decently priced thunderbolt (2) compatible devices... Maybe even an external GPU?

    -Broadwell should use even less battery

    -Broadwell will bring SATA Express support, which would be cool, but not really a real reason to skip haswell :)

    -Overall retina displays (and thus rMBPs) would probably be more affordable


    Some things that might already arrive with Haswell, but possibly not:

    -And I would hope that the brightest setting on the rMBP would be brighter. I dont care if it would use more battery, but currently the brightest setting on a sunny day is just a bit too dim for me.

    -HDMI out port with decent 4K support (meaning: supports more than 30 frames per sec, would allow to use a 4K tv as a desktop monitor. Can currently be done with HDMI 1.4, but 30 hertz is quite low for anything else except movies/tv.)

    -USB 3.0 with 10gbps


    And yes! If I wasn't a poor student, I would already very likely buy a haswell MBP ;)
     
  2. ValSalva macrumors 68040

    ValSalva

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    #2
    You are probably going to get a lot of responses like this: Why not wait until Skylake? Or Skymont?

    If you can wait, then wait. Future tech always trumps today's tech.
     
  3. chambone macrumors 6502a

    chambone

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    #3
    Well, I just bought two sandy bridge laptops. So I'll be aiming for what comes after broadwells successor.
     
  4. walkie macrumors 6502

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    Feb 13, 2010
    #4
    Life is short!, in my opinion is not worth waiting 1-2 years, technology gets better day after day, it's always the same, it's an infinity loop, if you need it now buy it now.
     
  5. justperry macrumors 604

    justperry

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    #5
    There you have it, why even make this thread while you are in no position to even buy Haswell.:p
     
  6. Pentad macrumors 6502a

    Pentad

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    #6
    Why not get both?

    I've been upgrading every year and it's been a blast! :D

    -P
     
  7. SandboxGeneral Moderator

    SandboxGeneral

    Staff Member

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    #7
    I don't buy or not buy a computer because of a class of chip. I buy one because I either need or want it for the sum of it's parts - not because of one of it's parts.
     
  8. Quu macrumors 68020

    Quu

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    #8
    Personally I keep my Notebooks for 3-4 years. I'm still using a Core 2 Duo so for me Haswell is a big jump and I do intend to buy a maxed out Haswell based rMBP when they refresh them.

    Waiting for me seems kinda pointless because my current notebook is EOL now. My Apple Care support ran out last year, my battery lasts about an hour instead of the 4 hours it used to last. Time to upgrade.
     
  9. jafingi macrumors 65816

    jafingi

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    #9
    I've heard that Intel's year 2030 processors will be AWESOME. Wait for those instead.
     
  10. dusk007 macrumors 68040

    dusk007

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    #10
    I don't know if I get a MBP but I think I am also buying something new when Broadwell shows up.

    The reason why is SoC Quad Cores + decent iGPU. It will be the first time a compelte highend System fits on one chip. Should deliver great battery life and small form factor.
    Today the market is divided into ULV Ultrabooks till 28W and the highend with multiple chips and big heavy notebooks.

    I don't think SATA Express is in any way worthwhile. You wouldn't notice the difference. Thunderbolt 2 again is not really anything great. The problem with Thunderbolt is the lack of devices that support it not so much its speed. Optical cables you can already have if you need the increased length desperately.

    I think the change in form factor and the highend System on a Chip is the selling point of Broadwell.
     
  11. negativzero macrumors 6502

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    Jul 19, 2011
    #11
    Waiting for Skylake/Skymont here. Don't see the need to upgrade every year since the MacBooks stay fast for several years anyway.

    Though what would make me upgrade immediately would be 10GbE if they do add it into MacBooks now.
     
  12. swerve147 macrumors 6502a

    swerve147

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    Jan 12, 2013
    #12
    If you wait for Broadwell you're also potentially setting yourself up for a new generation of graphics technology as well (Maxwell comes to mind). So it's likely more than just a CPU upgrade you're setting yourself up for.

    A general rule of thumb is - if you don't absolutely need a new PC, if it's adequately serving your needs now, then why buy a new one? If it isn't, then why wait?
     
  13. old-wiz macrumors G3

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    #13
    There is always a next generation coming.

    I don't base buying decisions based on what chipset is in the device. I buy when I feel I need it and when I can find something that fits my needs and has room to grow for a few years.
     
  14. gngan macrumors 68000

    gngan

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    #14
    +1.

    This thread is pointless.
     
  15. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #15
    A lot of year to year updates are somewhat trivial. If the OP is on a machine that is no longer worth that much either way (2008 era) he may as well use it until he feels compelled to get a new one. Intel is pumping their biggest changes out in the form of power management and gpu updates. I doubt the mobile packages will hit 6 cores anytime soon, and year to year x86 gains haven't been that incredible outside of core count increases.
     
  16. Zeov macrumors 6502a

    Zeov

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    #16
    life isn't short, it's the longest thing you'll ever experience.
     
  17. skaertus macrumors 68030

    skaertus

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    #17
    I don't see a reason why someone should wait for Broadwell instead of buying a Haswell laptop. Honestly. And I will explain why.

    First, Broadwell will share the same architecture as Haswell. It will be a similar move as jumping from Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge. It's a die shrink, which Intel does every other year. The manufacturing process will go from the current 22nm to 14nm. That will bring more efficient chips, but that doesn't mean Broadwell will represent a huge improvement. In fact, the biggest improvements come with architecture changes, such as from Core to Nehalem, then to Sandy Bridge, and now to Haswell. Die shrinks make the processors more efficient, and that brings benefits, but those benefits don't compare to the benefits of architectural changes.

    For this reason, I don't expect Broadwell processors to have big improvement gains in performance as compared to Haswell. I'm pretty sure Broadwell will be faster than a similar Haswell, but the performance gains will be due to small increases in clock speed and to some additional extensions. Battery life on Broadwell will also be improved, but not by too much, as this improvement will derive from a better manufacturing process, and not architectural changes. So, I expect Broadwell to improve on Haswell, but it certainly won't be something revolutionary, and it's not worth the wait.

    Haswell, on the other hand, is a much bigger improvement. The architectural changes from Sandy/Ivy Bridge to Haswell bring important features, especially the new power management system. Intel promises a much better battery life on laptops with Haswell, and, if it comes true, then it's a major leap forward. Intel has not yet promised anything with Broadwell, so I see no reason why someone should wait one year to get unspecific incremental improvements.

    I see lots of people saying that the main reason why Broadwell should be expected is GPU power. Broadwell is supposed to bring a much improvement in integrated GPU performance over Haswell. That should come as no surprise. Intel is investing heavily in video performance these years, especially after the flop of Larrabee. HD3000, which came with Sandy Bridge, was much better than its predecessor, and HD4000 is way better than HD3000. Haswell will also bring improvements, and nobody was really aware of the power of "Iris" a couple of months ago. The HD4000 series in Ivy Bridge is already capable of driving the retina display of the 13-inch MacBook Pro at 2560x1600, and the integrated graphics card in Haswell will build on that. Haswell will bring enough power to drive very high display resolutions, and that's enough for its purposes. In fact, the "Iris" integrated video card in Haswell is far more powerful than whatever most people was expecting, and that should come as a welcome surprise. I don't know what sort of graphic improvements Broadwell will bring. I'm sure the integrated GPU in Broadwell will be far better than the one in Haswell, but I don't know the level of improvement. So, Haswell graphics processing power should be satisfactory for everyone.

    Of course, there are always those people who are never satisfied with the performance of integrated cards, and want them to perform like a high-end NVIDIA card. There are those gamers who want to cram two NVIDIA GTX Titans inside a 13-inch laptop so they can run every single game with the highest settings at 2560x1600. That is just not going to happen, not with Haswell, nor Broadwell, not even Skylane. There are always dedicated graphics cards for those who need this sort of power.

    As for other reasons, I don't see what will come that could attract me, or anybody else. Thunderbolt 2? Fine, but I don't actually see anything compatible with Thunderbolt, apart from Apple's external display. What will I need Thunderbolt 2 for? Thunderbolt 2 may become popular in two years, but I don't see a reason for someone to start waiting for it right now.

    Prices of retina displays and SSDs will come down, that's for sure. But that doesn't necessarily mean Apple will drop the prices of its laptops because of that. So, if you are in the market for a new MacBook, then stop waiting for prices to drop and just swallow Apple's bitter prices. But if you want a PC, then you have a point.

    Finally, Broadwell is expected for mid-2014, but who knows?

    I almost bought a new 13" rMBP in October last year, just after the launch, but I skipped it as I would like to benefit from Haswell, which was supposed to launch in the beginning of 2013. Well, Haswell was delayed so Ivy Bridge could sell, and then Haswell was delayed again. Now, Haswell will ship in June, and I don't even know which specific chips will be released, nor if the glitch Intel announced will play any part on the availability of the processor. Broadwell is supposed to come in 2014, but who knows? Sales of personal computers are low, and Intel may want to get rid of the inventory of Haswell before it launches something else. AMD no longer is a threat to Intel, and the chip could be released in Q4 2014, or even in 2015, if something happens to delay it.

    I wouldn't wait for Broadwell, as I'm not sure which specific improvements it will bring, and I'm not even sure about the date of its availability. I'm going with Haswell.
     
  18. kahuna0k macrumors member

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    Jul 25, 2012
    #18
    I really do not understand all those "should I wait for ...?" or "I will wait for ...", IMHO, the only earth-shattering innovations of maybe the latest 10 years, have been Solid State Disks and the Retina screen, everything else has been an evolution and not a breakthrough. In fact I switch to the Apple world only for the Retina. So the difference between sandy, ivy, haswell or broadwell seems really irrelevant to me, compared to Retina, so why should you wait for a little small improvement if you can enjoy a great revolution today? Ok, maybe I will wait for it if I would wait two weeks or even a month, just for not feeling bad about it, but in any other case, get it now, and start enjoying 2880x1800 at 15.4". As someone has already said "it has more resolution than real life!, only computer generated images can really take advantage of it!" :-D

    Regards,
     
  19. ValSalva macrumors 68040

    ValSalva

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    #19
    Exactly. I wouldn't count on any significant price drop from Apple. They usually release the latest and greatest at the previous price.
     
  20. Zodiac.mj macrumors member

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    #20
    Broadwell will, according to latest news (Semiaccurate.com), have limited PCI-E width to 4x, 2.0 specs. So say goodbye to discrete GPUs. If that is production specs, I will surely SKIP that one.

    Haswell on the other hand is a nice bump, I hope for better SSD (maybe 840 Pro from Samsung, don't mistake that with standard 840 model), better GPU in 15" (my dream would be 760M, but it's near to impossible due to TDP issues, I rather count on external GPUs via Thunderbolt, if Intel will stop blocking them) and in the end - better thermals, so that buying maxed out model won't give me overheating piece of **** like the 1st gen 2.7 model I currently own.
     
  21. Simplicated macrumors 65816

    Simplicated

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    #21
    Anyone planning on skipping the MacBook Pros released from 2013 to 2017 and aim for the mid-2018 MBP? :rolleyes:
     
  22. Mr MM macrumors 65816

    Mr MM

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    #22
    I can feel alright the difference in speed coming from SF1200 to a m500 480gb

    exactly there is also the amd new new gcn

    best thing said
    haswell already does that on the chipset. Since ivy there are pcie 3.0 x16 available on the cpu.

    in the end reading news wrong nets terrible results.

    I cant remember the changes on the chipset for broadwell entirely, but if I remember correctly there will be a change to the fab process finally or its in skylake, cant remember exactly.

    but there is very little sense for me a SB buyer to get haswell, I will wait for broadwell or skylake
     
  23. Krazy Bill macrumors 68030

    Krazy Bill

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    Dec 21, 2011
    #23
    I snipped your reasons because they don't make sense.

    I am waiting for Broadwell because my current MBP will be good enough to skip Haswell. (Barring any mishaps). When Haswell comes out your apps won't mysteriously stop working at midnight nor will the machine that runs them burst into flames.
     
  24. dusk007 macrumors 68040

    dusk007

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    #24
    You are forgetting one big thing here and that is platform power.
    Broadwell is supposed to bring Quad Cores and basically all mobile chips into the fold of SoC designs. Haswell will only do that for the ultra mobile dual cores.
    That won't make anything faster but it goes a long way in pushing total platform power as low as possible. Next to the Display that is where the biggest potential for increased battery life lies.
    For high end quad core notebooks battery life should change a lot with Broadwell. It should end up almost at the same point as ulv haswells.
    Quad Core Haswells get the new idle i0x state but aside from that the chipset and everything will largly be just as power hungry as with Ivy Bridge. While it may run more frequently on idle power consumption that idle power itself won't be too different. The SoC ULV are different and Broadwell will move all mobile chips to SoC.

    Also die shrinks always deliver performance. What architecture changes does Haswell deliver. The CPU is the same just a bit wider same as from Sandy to Ivy. The GPU is mostly the same as in Ivy only bigger. The GPU from Sandy to Ivy is more different in architecture then now from Ivy to Haswell. The power managment and SoC for ULV is the only architectural difference. That is what Broadwell will do to only for the non ULV chips.
    Core was a big difference in architecture for performance and Nehalem everything after Nehalem is iterative. Only on the GPU side one can speak of changes. Sandy to Ivy the EU efficiency of hte GPU climbed by 100%. With Haswell it is mostly more EUs and a more mature 22nm process. So the tick tock doesn't really hold true anywhere here. ;)
     
  25. Mr MM macrumors 65816

    Mr MM

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    #25
    not to mention that broadwell also brings a arch change for the igpu
     

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