Anyone getting 4k on their 2014?

Discussion in 'Mac mini' started by bulldog212, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. bulldog212 macrumors newbie

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    Oct 25, 2014
    #1
    After months of waiting for the possibility of 4k on a Mini, and hours of YouTube videos about the 39" Seiki 4k monitor with Apple products I finally ordered both last week and the new Mini was announced. Got the Mini hooked up today and upon initial boot the TV showed 3840x2160 @ 30hz...Win! Then 10 seconds later it reverts to 1920x1080 @ 60hz...Loss! I have tried another cable, different HDMI port. Updated the Seiki firmware. Worked with Apple techs for a coupe hours and each time I reset the display settings (Win-Alt-P-R on boot up) it will show 3840x2160 and the Apple logo appears and a progress bar begins to progress...then it reverts each time. Apple led me through various resets, repairs and even a full disc formatting and fresh OS X load but nothing is working for more than 10 seconds each initial boot. I have an appt at an Apple store Monday night because I have piles of PC hardware around but this TV and Mini are my first 4k components and I'm not going to buy more just to troubleshoot. Ugh. So, has anyone got 4k working on their 2014? (I have the mid level Mini with 256 SSD and Iris graphics btw). And if you have success what monitor/TV/display are you using? Apple's website reads like 4k should be plug and play via HDMI. The way it works until the OS starts loading leads me towards a driver and/or Yosemite problems but I won't know until we try more hardware at the store. Thanks all for any help you can provide.
     
  2. crazzapple Guest

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    #2
    I was hoping to pick up a new mini and a 4k monitor, but decided to put it off another year at least. Partly due to the mini only able to drive 4k at 30Hz. Sorry I have nothing to add, hope you get it sorted.
     
  3. esenboga macrumors newbie

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    Sep 1, 2014
  4. paulrbeers macrumors 68040

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    Dec 17, 2009
    #4
    The mini is only capable of 4k via HDMI.
     
  5. Crosscreek macrumors 68030

    Crosscreek

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    Nov 19, 2013
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    Margarittaville
    #5
    I read a lot of stories about people having trouble with Seike TVs with the same problems. If you want 4K you are better off ordering a 4K monitor with display port connection. Even with that that IGPU is going to have real trouble driving 4K. You are better off waiting for Broadwell or Skylake which will be much more capable of delivering the bandwidth required for 4K operation.
     
  6. Altis macrumors 68020

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    Sep 10, 2013
    #6
    That seems odd since DisplayPort is capable of 4K 60 Hz, while HDMI is only capable of 30 Hz at 4K.

    You would think that if it was only going to work on one, it would be the DP.
     
  7. slenpree, Oct 26, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2014

    slenpree macrumors 6502a

    slenpree

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    Apr 13, 2010
    Location:
    UK
    #7
    It looks like MST part of DisplayPort 1.2, which is required to stream two SBS pictures for 4k, was only available on Thunderbolt 2 ports and not Thunderbolt 1 ports. However, since the arrival on the new mac mini with Thunderbolt 2 I am really baffled. This could be to do with Intel Iris and only Iris "Pro" is able to support MST... or apple have purposely limiting the output. Overall the mac mini was not a disappointment for me as I was always interested in a dual-core model and the fact you can still replace the hard drive and flash storage blades is nice but I'm waiting until broadwell now because I want 4k/retina at 60Hz and will also be fanless like the iPad :)

    Jonathan
     
  8. Altis macrumors 68020

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    Sep 10, 2013
    #8
    So if Thunderbolt 2 supports MST on DisplayPort 1.2, what would be preventing the display from working at 60 Hz over DP?

    Perhaps it's worth trying the DisplayPort rather than HDMI. It might just work!
     
  9. bulldog212 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Oct 25, 2014
    #9
    This is a cheap 39" TV that only does 30hz max, and HDMI 1.4 only. I got it for $299. For me this is the only option. I'm not going to pay $5-600+ for a 28" monitor that is too small. I don't want the 4k for ultra high DPI clarity - I want to use this basically as a 2x2 array of 19" 1080p monitors. Usable, readable UI elements. My 17" laptop at 1920x1200 is good until you go beyond arms reach away so this resolution, at this size, on my desk should be ideal [for me].

    Not much 4k in the ~40" territory, and nothing nearly this cheap. 28" and probably 32" will be too small, and a 50" on my desk is probably too much. Running DPI calculators against my existing laptops and monitors this 39" hits the sweet spot. We'll see what becomes of my visit to with the Geniuses tomorrow. The videos are out there with this monitor working on Macs, but they aren't this Mini and I don't think I've seen any Yosemite vids either. I'm leaning towards driver/Yosemite because the Apple bios detects and the TV displays the proper 4k @ 30z every time until Yosemite begins to load. We'll know once we start trying out some hardware combinations. If it doesn't work I'll give up the dream, return the TV and pick up a couple 1080 monitors and accept 1/2 of the real estate for now.
     
  10. stevemr123 macrumors member

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    May 27, 2010
    #10
    I think it won't work, becasue the new Mini does not support MST displays and the Intel Iris does not have the bandwidth for 4K@60Hz (you needed a 540MHz display clock for that, and the U series Haswell processors Apple choose to use in Mac Mini can only do 450MHz max). This is a hardware limitation and you can't do much about it. Much like the current 13" rMBP. :(

    You can however get 4K@60Hz using two cables if your display supports PBP mode (many 4K displays support this). In Windows you can get a seamless experience (one logical desktop) thanks to the intel driver's collage mode. In OS X you will run into some problems, since the Mac will see the two halves of your screen as two separate displays, and you can't stretch your desktop over two displays in OS X (maybe there is a hack for this, but I didn't find any :().
     
  11. bulldog212 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Oct 25, 2014
    #12
    Man, this is my first Mac (have an Ipad and Ipod though), my first experience with Apple support, and my first experience with a "Genius". It has been a rocky start. Long story short, the Seiki 4K TV is bad. But I found this out thanks to BEST BUY, not the Apple store.

    I made the phone support rep put me on hold, call my local (1 hour away) Apple store before making me a "Genius" appt to verify they had a 4k monitor to test my Mini with. Store said yes. I drove an hour, waited nearly 30 more minutes past my appt time, and within 30 seconds was told "we don't have any 4k monitors here, sorry bud". WTF. Furious. Almost speechless. So much for the premium experience huh? Guess I'm on my own. Thanks for nothing "Geniuses".

    Went into the Best Buy behind the mall and was straight up with their Apple expert and TV guys - I did not want to purchase a 4k TV with the intent to test my Mini and then return the TV and asked if I could please hook up my Mini to one of their floor TV's to test. Everyone was super cool. 4k worked and looked great. So I got a bum TV. Got to test 4k at 30hz and came to conclude it is not for a mouse interface at all. Images were amazing, I'm betting videos are amazing, but mousing was terrible.

    Thanked the Best Buy guys over and over again then came home and returned my defective TV and ordered a pair of 27" IPS monitors. It'll have to do for now. Will let 4K mature until pricing for 60hz input/output drops into my "average man" bracket.
     
  12. vovov macrumors newbie

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    Oct 29, 2014
    #13
    Well that was a lot of trouble but good that you got things solved.

    Could you tell a bit more about the mouse use under 30hz? I´m thinking of getting 2014 mac mini and connecting it to my 4K tv in the livingroom. It would be used for watching photos and videos + random web browsing. Would you say 30hz is ok for that kind of use?
     
  13. bulldog212 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Oct 25, 2014
    #14
    From my [very] brief time with 4k I would not recommend 30hz "as a computer". Images looked great, I don't know why videos would not look great, but using a mouse was not good at all. The cursor is very "skittish" at 30hz and it only gets magnified by how much real estate you have to cover at 4k. Speeding up the mouse in the settings made the cursor go from skittish to a game where it seemed to disappear altogether and pop up when ready. It would depend how much you need to use it. Moving around briefly to queue up some movies or pictures is probably ok. As your main interface on the mini (using it as a computer) you'll probably tire of 30hz quickly.
     
  14. crazzapple Guest

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    Oct 19, 2014
    #15
    The only advantage of the 2014 for me is that it could drive a 4k monitor. Too bad 30Hz is nearly unusable.
     
  15. vovov macrumors newbie

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    Oct 29, 2014
    #16
    The more i read about 4K with the new mac mini, the more confused i get. Some say only gaming is out, some say even videos stutter. bulldog212´s mouse problems are also odd. I would understand some lag but disappearing cursor sounds very bad.

    I wish there was some Anandtech style indepth review about this 4K stuff now and what can be expected from broadwell/skylake.
     
  16. stevemr123 macrumors member

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    May 27, 2010
    #17
    I don't know about the disappearing cursor problem (I didn't notice anything like it). 30Hz is not suitable for desktop use though, but ok for watching videos (moveies are usually approx. 24fps, majority of youtube videos are usually 30fps).

    But you can squeeze out 50Hz from the Mac Mini over displayport, which is fine for desktop use. That's how I use it with my 4K display.
     
  17. vovov macrumors newbie

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    Oct 29, 2014
    #18
    My videos are from Panasonic GH4 and are both 25fps or 50fps and i want to watch those on my 4K tv. So thats what i´m after. So if i understand right, 4K 50Hz from Mac mini over displayport would be just the thing i need. I dont have anything in 60fps since i live in europe.

    What is the setup for getting 50hz from displayport? I guess the problem would be that tv´s dont usually have displayport connection?
     
  18. bulldog212 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Oct 25, 2014
    #19

    Cursor only disappeared after turning the mousing speed up to try and smooth out the stuttering under normal speeds, and to compensate for the hugeness of the display. Default was pretty jittery though.

    ----------

    Hmm, I have a DP-to-HDMI cable that I just got my dual 1080's that I'd like to try. For you the 4k @ 50hz option just shows up in your scaled resolution choices?

    Problem is I don't want to return the bad TV for another and then still not be happy. Thought I'm not completely thrilled with dual 1080's either. What to do, what to do....
     
  19. vovov macrumors newbie

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    Oct 29, 2014
    #20
    I think it needs to be a DP-to-HDMI2.0 adapter. I found this:

    http://www.avsforum.com/forum/35-ca...-1-2-hdmi-2-0-adapter-there-manufacturer.html

    So i guess they are coming, maybe.
     
  20. stevemr123 macrumors member

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    May 27, 2010
    #21
    No, the 4K@50Hz you need to manually set up display timings.

    I attached the settings I use. As you see, there is still room for improvement (the max pixel clock is 450MHz, but 4K@50Hz uses only 423MHz - so you can actually reach 53Hz if you want. I choose 50Hz since it is the European/PAL standard). You will need a display that supports DisplayPort 1.2/HBR2.

    Through HDMI you won't be able to achieve 50Hz, since the max HDMI 1.4 pixel clock is limited to 300MHz.
     

    Attached Files:

  21. stevemr123 macrumors member

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    May 27, 2010
    #22
    Here is the settings for the max resolution I was able to achieve at 60Hz.
     

    Attached Files:

  22. vovov macrumors newbie

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    Oct 29, 2014
    #23
    So with a dp-to-HDMI2.0 adapter and this SwitchResX program, i could get 4K@50Hz to my 4K tv?

    ---

    Unless i can find a tv with dp input.
     
  23. esenboga macrumors newbie

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    Sep 1, 2014
    #24
    İn fact, i was thinking to get the exact same monitor but had questions in mind. Thank you for sharing.

    Maybe one question; what cable are you using? Obviously displayport but which one?
     
  24. stevemr123, Oct 30, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2014

    stevemr123 macrumors member

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    May 27, 2010
    #25
    I am using a cheap noname mini displayport to displayport cable, nothing special.

    ----------

    Well, I am not sure about this one. The HDMI2 standard has the bandwidth, but since Intel Iris is not HDMI2 compliant, I think it won't work. The mini DP->HDMI2 adapter is passive, the HDMI compatible signal is generated by the graphics chip, not by the adapter (via some kind of active signal converter chip), so it won't be able to output anything beyond 300MHz since it is only HDMI1.4 compliant (which is limited at 340MHz dot clock, but Intel Iris is further limited to 300MHz). But all this is my theory, someone should try it.

    UPDATE: I checked out the Moshi adapter - unfortunatelly there is no any detailed specifications, the Manufacturer's page doesn't even mention that it is HDMI 2.0. The same with Belkin. I think both of these are passive adapters and won't produce anything beyond what the graphics card can offer. Especially since Apple officially supports 4K@60Hz using MST (which is a displayport/thunderdbolt 2 specific thing) while in this case we are talking about 4K@50Hz SST.
     

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