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Anyone have one of the fruit Colored iMacs?

DearthnVader

DearthnVader

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Original poster
Dec 17, 2015
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Red Springs, NC
I was wanting someone to dump the 1MB boot rom from a fruit colored iMac with the Rage Pro Turbo with @joevt tools for dumping new world roms.

Anyone still have one laying around?

Also, does anyone know if these systems were AGP?

Everymac doesn't say, but I assume so, because I don't think they made the Rage Pro Turbo to work over PCI, as part of what made it Turbo were some of the AGP enhancements.

It's odd these systems did not have 8MB of VRAM, I'm starting to wonder if there was an issue on PPC with Rage II based GPU's and that last 2MB the Rage II supported.

Likely not, Apple just wanted to draw a line between the Power line and the "I" line.
 
DearthnVader said:
I was wanting someone to dump the 1MB boot rom from a fruit colored iMac with the Rage Pro Turbo with @joevt tools for dumping new world roms.

Anyone still have one laying around?
Click to expand...

I have a 1999 Blueberry 350Mhz model but it's currently packed away and I won't be able to access it for some time. I'm not sure if the GPU is a Rage Pro Turbo though.

DearthnVader said:
Also, does anyone know if these systems were AGP?
Click to expand...

Mine appears to be. Again, I'm not certain if it's the Turbo version.

Maybe others can confirm either way?
 
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Sadly that's the ATI Rage 128 VR 2D/3D (AGP 2X) graphics with 8 MB of VRAM. A good chip to be sure, but I was digging back through the Rage II/III.

Hoping to be able to extract the Option ROM and flash a PC Rage Pro Turbo and see what I could do with it and learn from it.

Anyway, the option ROM may not be necessary. The Mac OS really only cares about the IONameMatch and the 'NDRV' when it comes to ATI. I got a couple of Rage Pro PC AGP cards I can play around with this weekend if the wife will let me. I'll see if I can get video out of them without an FCode ROM.

I think that worked for me before, with the Rage 128 and PCI Passthrough with Qemu, I'll have to go back and check my notes.

Apple called Rage Pro the Rage III so I wonder if that makes the Rage Pro Turbo the Rage III+
 
DearthnVader said:
Sadly that's the ATI Rage 128 VR 2D/3D (AGP 2X) graphics with 8 MB of VRAM. A good chip to be sure, but I was digging back through the Rage II/III.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. :)

DearthnVader said:
Hoping to be able to extract the Option ROM and flash a PC Rage Pro Turbo and see what I could do with it and learn from it.

Anyway, the option ROM may not be necessary. The Mac OS really only cares about the IONameMatch and the 'NDRV' when it comes to ATI. I got a couple of Rage Pro PC AGP cards I can play around with this weekend if the wife will let me. I'll see if I can get video out of them without an FCode ROM.

I think that worked for me before, with the Rage 128 and PCI Passthrough with Qemu, I'll have to go back and check my notes.

Apple called Rage Pro the Rage III so I wonder if that makes the Rage Pro Turbo the Rage III+
Click to expand...

I'll be interested to see how you get on with this. Just a thought, have you considered asking the 68KMLA.org members if they have the boot ROM or can dump it for you?
 
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I have a 333 MHz grape, which Low End Mac claims is a Turbo. System Profiler reports it as an "ATY,GT-C" with 6 MB of VRAM, connected via PCI. Is this what you're looking for?

I have no idea how to dump the ROM.
 
Nermal said:
I have a 333 MHz grape, which Low End Mac claims is a Turbo. System Profiler reports it as an "ATY,GT-C" with 6 MB of VRAM, connected via PCI. Is this what you're looking for?

I have no idea how to dump the ROM.
Click to expand...
I’ll dig up the tools when I get home from work.

Thanks for confirming the chip is PCI, that is really interesting. I’ll explain when I get home.
 
So the Rage Pro Turbo was not as interesting as I thought or maybe so.....

Some sources say the "Turbo" wasn't a new chip, it was just a rebranding of the Rage Pro. They just started adding the word "Turbo" to the silkscreen of the GPUs.

Some sources claim there were enhancements to the AGP and later drivers saw pretty high performance gains over the "Pro".

What is interesting is these chips are pin compatible with the Rage II. So Macs like the Beige rev. A that shipped with the Rage II+DVD GPU could be baked to take the Rage Pro Turbo PCI GPU.

The Rage II/Pro/Turbo could support 16MB of WRAM with an external 250Mhz RAMDAC for higher resolutions. Such cards were made only for Macintosh's and I'm not sure what variations of the names, tho I'm not sure any of them came with the full 16MB of VRAM.
 
DearthnVader said:
Some sources say the "Turbo" wasn't a new chip, it was just a rebranding of the Rage Pro.
Click to expand...
That and new "optimised" drivers.

DearthnVader said:
It's odd these systems did not have 8MB of VRAM, I'm starting to wonder if there was an issue on PPC with Rage II based GPU's and that last 2MB the Rage II supported.
Click to expand...
Isn't the ATI Rage LT Pro also a II/III?
The ATI Xclaim 3D Plus (@eyoungren has one), as well as the Lombard have that GPU with 8 MB VRAM.
I have an ATI XpertLCD AGP card with that GPU.
 
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I have a grey G3/600 SE it states on Everymac it has Rage 128 Ultra (AGP 2X) video with 16 MB of Vram
 
I have a dismantled Grape iMac I used for parts to help repair and rebuild my Bondi Blue G3. I'm not entirely sure how to dump the ROM on one of these but I do know that the ROM chip is actually located on the CPU card these use. It would be nice if I could dump a ROM from software though, that way I could easily do it from my bondi.
 
I have ROMs for these two iMacs:

Code: 
==============================================================================================================================================================================================================================
                                                                                                                  BAR   Boot   Boot   Boot   Sound
Mac                                         OF version                             ATY,Fcode versions             max   FW     USB    GPT    Arch             Notes
==============================================================================================================================================================================================================================                                     
iMac G3 233 MHz (Bondi Blue)                OpenFirmware 3 Open Firmware 3.0.f2    1.63, 1.64                     ?     ?      ?      No                      Apple iMac         1.3f2           built on 04/23/99 at 14:31:03
iMac G3 (Slot Loading)                      OpenFirmware 3                         1.69, 1.69, 1.73, 1.77, 1.77   256   Yes    Yes    No     0x0e+0x12        Apple PowerMac2,1  4.1.9f1 BootROM built on 09/14/01 at 13:18:04
==============================================================================================================================================================================================================================

List of iMacs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac_G3

I think you're asking for the ROMs between the two I have, so either iMac (266MHz) or iMac (333MHz)
 

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DearthnVader said:
If any fruiters have 10.4 or maybe 10.5 installed, just download the link and unzip it and run the get-new-world-rom.command.

Then PM me.

#42
Click to expand...
Mine has 10.3.9, which the latest it can run without hacks. As I use the machine for contemporary software I don't have any interest in hacking a newer OS on there.
 
Nermal said:
Mine has 10.3.9, which the latest it can run without hacks. As I use the machine for contemporary software I don't have any interest in hacking a newer OS on there.
Click to expand...
I think the ROM dumper might work in 10.3.9. If not, then I can probably update it to make it work.
The ROM dumper doesn't make any changes to the Mac or the OS so you don't have to worry about having to uninstall it.
 
joevt said:
I think the ROM dumper might work in 10.3.9. If not, then I can probably update it to make it work.
The ROM dumper doesn't make any changes to the Mac or the OS so you don't have to worry about having to uninstall it.
Click to expand...
Where are your tools for disabling New World BootROM's?

Lost in the Beige Mega Thread?

Might be worth a new thread where we can learn to use these tools.

What is up with the zip file with flashrom and the new world rom dump command linked for mla68k not uploading here?

Does MR scan for executables and it just won't let us upload it here?
 
DearthnVader said:
Where are your tools for disabling New World BootROM's?

Lost in the Beige Mega Thread?

Might be worth a new thread where we can learn to use these tools.
Click to expand...
Do you mean disassemble? I use my DumpMacRom.sh script (joevt/OpenBIOSStuff) after manually extracting and decompressing the parts.

The results are at https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/33je...umps.zip?rlkey=s6objqfrdrv0zh9l0gvn8dhid&dl=0
The commands that are used are in the BBEdit worksheet files. Maybe sort them by date to see which ones I used most recently.

DearthnVader said:
What is up with the zip file with flashrom and the new world rom dump command linked for mla68k not uploading here?

Does MR scan for executables and it just won't let us upload it here?
Click to expand...
Which link for mla68k?
I think my latest flashrom is at https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...eige-power-macintosh-g3.2303689/post-32937887
I don't think MR scans zip files or its never had a problem with my zip files.
 
the only Mac that shipped with a Rage Pro GPU and had AGP was the very first iBook G3 Clamshells, they are a bit unique in that regard :) so you may want the boot rom from one of them if you want to play with ATI Rage Pro AGP stuff (everything else AGP based, slot loading iMacs, PowerMacs etc had at least a Rage 128 based GPU or better)
 
DearthnVader said:
So it doesn't dump the PCI ROM's into files?
Click to expand...
The Mac ROM doesn't contain PCI ROM's. It contains fcode images that a PCI ROM would contain. Search for detokenizing start in the Part2.of files in my ROM dumps for the start of each fcode image. The first one is the main fcode. The second one is the last fcode image in a list of fcode images. The first fcode image in the fcode image list is the last one output in Part2.of.

The ATI graphics controller chip is a PCI device. A PCI device optionally contains a PCI option ROM.

Macs with a built-in ATI graphics controller don't have a PCI option ROM attached to the ATI graphics controller. Instead, an fcode image is included with the Mac's ROM.

During probe-all, the Mac firmware will check if the PCI device has a PCI option ROM containing an fcode image. If so, then it will execute that. If not, then the Mac firmware will search its list of fcode images (aka fcode files or fcfiles) for one that matches the vendor and device ID or class code of the PCI device. An fcode image from the list is executed using byte-load-file

The fcode images for each version of Open Firmware is listed at the end of the Part1.txt file in my ROM dumps.

You can examine the list of fcode images with this nvramrc script:
Code: 
install-console
7fffffff to lines/page
@startvec >fcfiles @
begin dup 10 dump dup @ while dup @ + repeat
drop
cr
probe-all
banner
(though you may need to change install-console to (install-console) or an execution token depending on the version of Open Firmware. Also, >fcfiles might be unnamed in some versions of Open Firmware.

Some fcode images specify a PCI vendor and device ID (such as for PCI host controller, or ATI GPU)
Some fcode images specify a PCI class code (such as for USB, FireWire, PCI bridge)
Some fcode images specify a number (for non-PCI related fcode images).
 
DearthnVader said:
If any fruiters have 10.4 or maybe 10.5 installed, just download the link and unzip it and run the get-new-world-rom.command.

Then PM me.

#42
Click to expand...
joevt said:
I think the ROM dumper might work in 10.3.9. If not, then I can probably update it to make it work.
The ROM dumper doesn't make any changes to the Mac or the OS so you don't have to worry about having to uninstall it.
Click to expand...
Do you (DearthnVader) still want me to do anything? The file you linked requires an account to download.
 
joevt said:
The Mac ROM doesn't contain PCI ROM's. It contains fcode images that a PCI ROM would contain. Search for detokenizing start in the Part2.of files in my ROM dumps for the start of each fcode image. The first one is the main fcode. The second one is the last fcode image in a list of fcode images. The first fcode image in the fcode image list is the last one output in Part2.of.

The ATI graphics controller chip is a PCI device. A PCI device optionally contains a PCI option ROM.

Macs with a built-in ATI graphics controller don't have a PCI option ROM attached to the ATI graphics controller. Instead, an fcode image is included with the Mac's ROM.

During probe-all, the Mac firmware will check if the PCI device has a PCI option ROM containing an fcode image. If so, then it will execute that. If not, then the Mac firmware will search its list of fcode images (aka fcode files or fcfiles) for one that matches the vendor and device ID or class code of the PCI device. An fcode image from the list is executed using byte-load-file

The fcode images for each version of Open Firmware is listed at the end of the Part1.txt file in my ROM dumps.

You can examine the list of fcode images with this nvramrc script:
Code: 
install-console
7fffffff to lines/page
@startvec >fcfiles @
begin dup 10 dump dup @ while dup @ + repeat
drop
cr
probe-all
banner
(though you may need to change install-console to (install-console) or an execution token depending on the version of Open Firmware. Also, >fcfiles might be unnamed in some versions of Open Firmware.

Some fcode images specify a PCI vendor and device ID (such as for PCI host controller, or ATI GPU)
Some fcode images specify a PCI class code (such as for USB, FireWire, PCI bridge)
Some fcode images specify a number (for non-PCI related fcode images).
Click to expand...
Is there a way to dump a specific fcode image to a file then load it in OF with the byte-load-file command?

In the iMac Bondi Blue FW I'm looking to extract the fcode image for the Rage Pro so I can load it for and AGP Rage Pro PC Card I have.
 
Alas, it doesn't seem to work under 10.3.9. It's looking for kextutil, which either doesn't exist or isn't in the default path.

There's probably a way to load DirectHW.kext manually but it's been so long that I can't remember.
 
Nermal said:
Alas, it doesn't seem to work under 10.3.9. It's looking for kextutil, which either doesn't exist or isn't in the default path.

There's probably a way to load DirectHW.kext manually but it's been so long that I can't remember.
Click to expand...
We'll likely have to update the command file for Panther, to use the kextload command, I think kextutil came with Tiger.
 
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